Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

LuckyPierre

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Jul 1, 2010
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5 year age disparity and Thomson really had a down year. I think there needs to be a big add from Buffalo.

Stutzle + Chabot for Thompson + Power.
Stutzle has a cap hit of 8.35m for the next 7 seasons. Next three have no trade protection. Thompson has a cap hit of 7.14m for the next 6 seasons. His 5 team no trade protection kicks in next year.

Both had down seasons, and while there's an age gap, there's also a maturity gap. I doubt the difference in value would go far beyond the 1.2m in annual cap savings between both contracts, but if it did, Chabot v Power is likely far skewed in Ottawa's favour.

Anyhow, I bring this type of proposition up because Timmy has been singled out by Steve Staios as lacking maturity. He's a one way puck hog of a player that, while not soft, is clearly containable when the opposition plays him gritty. Watching the playoffs and the style of play that leads to series wins, I'm not sure he's that guy short of a major leap in play style and poise.

That's not to say Tage Thompson is the solution, but Buffalo could do with a shakeup to a squad in a historical playoff drought, and he could make Ottawa harder to play against. He may give up 10-20 assists a year on Timmy, but he's likely to outscore him by 10 goals each year, and make Ottawa's powerplay deadlier.

And come playoff time, I believe he'd outplay Timmy in a 7 game series. This team doesn't have a horse down the middle - in fact we have a collection of skilled, medium sized centres with wonky shoulders. A different look might not be a bad thing.
 

SpezDispenser

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Aug 15, 2007
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How about a deal around Tage Thompson and Tim Stutzle. Both on long term, cap friendly deals with no trade protections this year.

Buffalo adds speed and playmaking, and can play JJ and Tim together up front with instant chemistry.

Ottawa adds size and goal scoring, with an all American trio of Brady, Tage, and Drake averaging 6’4+ and combining for 90ish goals.
Dorion, is that you?
 

Loach

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Jun 9, 2021
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Stutzle has a cap hit of 8.35m for the next 7 seasons. Next three have no trade protection. Thompson has a cap hit of 7.14m for the next 6 seasons. His 5 team no trade protection kicks in next year.

Both had down seasons, and while there's an age gap, there's also a maturity gap. I doubt the difference in value would go far beyond the 1.2m in annual cap savings between both contracts, but if it did, Chabot v Power is likely far skewed in Ottawa's favour.

Anyhow, I bring this type of proposition up because Timmy has been singled out by Steve Staios as lacking maturity. He's a one way puck hog of a player that, while not soft, is clearly containable when the opposition plays him gritty. Watching the playoffs and the style of play that leads to series wins, I'm not sure he's that guy short of a major leap in play style and poise.

That's not to say Tage Thompson is the solution, but Buffalo could do with a shakeup to a squad in a historical playoff drought, and he could make Ottawa harder to play against. He may give up 10-20 assists a year on Timmy, but he's likely to outscore him by 10 goals each year, and make Ottawa's powerplay deadlier.

And come playoff time, I believe he'd outplay Timmy in a 7 game series. This team doesn't have a horse down the middle - in fact we have a collection of skilled, medium sized centres with wonky shoulders. A different look might not be a bad thing.
Just go. Into the desert, on a horse with no name.
 

Joeyjoejoe

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Dec 18, 2015
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How about a deal around Tage Thompson and Tim Stutzle. Both on long term, cap friendly deals with no trade protections this year.

Buffalo adds speed and playmaking, and can play JJ and Tim together up front with instant chemistry.

Ottawa adds size and goal scoring, with an all American trio of Brady, Tage, and Drake averaging 6’4+ and combining for 90ish goals.

Dorion wtf are you doing here? Shouldn’t you be handing out resumes at the Orleans mall?
 

bert

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While I like Brossoit, he hasn't proven himself to be a No. 1 or even a 1B. That's the kinda move that will land the Sens with to Korpisalo's.
Or a Lyon like on Detroit. They don't have to give him that type of contract that Korpisalo got I wasnt insinuating that. He's a career back up but he is at the age where goalies often come into their own. He is big and very technically sound, a really good first save goalie.

How about a deal around Tage Thompson and Tim Stutzle. Both on long term, cap friendly deals with no trade protections this year.

Buffalo adds speed and playmaking, and can play JJ and Tim together up front with instant chemistry.

Ottawa adds size and goal scoring, with an all American trio of Brady, Tage, and Drake averaging 6’4+ and combining for 90ish goals.
Trading Stutzle after an injury plagued season when he still scores 70 points as a 21 year old in the league would be one of the worst deals an NHL team can make. Why do we want more Americans exactly?... Stutzle isnt close to being done developing. If he scores 93 or more points next year only Mcdavid will have had more points than him post lockout in their 20 to 22 year old seasons.
 

bert

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Stutzle has a cap hit of 8.35m for the next 7 seasons. Next three have no trade protection. Thompson has a cap hit of 7.14m for the next 6 seasons. His 5 team no trade protection kicks in next year.

Both had down seasons, and while there's an age gap, there's also a maturity gap. I doubt the difference in value would go far beyond the 1.2m in annual cap savings between both contracts, but if it did, Chabot v Power is likely far skewed in Ottawa's favour.

Anyhow, I bring this type of proposition up because Timmy has been singled out by Steve Staios as lacking maturity. He's a one way puck hog of a player that, while not soft, is clearly containable when the opposition plays him gritty. Watching the playoffs and the style of play that leads to series wins, I'm not sure he's that guy short of a major leap in play style and poise.

That's not to say Tage Thompson is the solution, but Buffalo could do with a shakeup to a squad in a historical playoff drought, and he could make Ottawa harder to play against. He may give up 10-20 assists a year on Timmy, but he's likely to outscore him by 10 goals each year, and make Ottawa's powerplay deadlier.

And come playoff time, I believe he'd outplay Timmy in a 7 game series. This team doesn't have a horse down the middle - in fact we have a collection of skilled, medium sized centres with wonky shoulders. A different look might not be a bad thing.
Please link the bolded. I also cannot believe anyone here thinks a 22 year old is fully developed physically or mentally. Wild stuff. Thats why this management group is not going to make these insane rash moves all the twitter keyboard warriors are complaining about. The core is very young. What was Thompson doing in the league when he was 21/22 ill tell you what he wasnt in the league full time.
 

Cosmix

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Jul 24, 2011
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I’d think the word is “priority” versus “need”. We have several needs, but given cap constraints, the organization will need to figure out what the “priorities” are.
Not to mention the "doables". You might make one need a priority but not be able to address it due to the high cost to get it done.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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Please link the bolded. I also cannot believe anyone here thinks a 22 year old is fully developed physically or mentally. Wild stuff. Thats why this management group is not going to make these insane rash moves all the twitter keyboard warriors are complaining about. The core is very young. What was Thompson doing in the league when he was 21/22 ill tell you what he wasnt in the league full time.
1714703637933.png
 

LuckyPierre

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Jul 1, 2010
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Please link the bolded. I also cannot believe anyone here thinks a 22 year old is fully developed physically or mentally. Wild stuff. Thats why this management group is not going to make these insane rash moves all the twitter keyboard warriors are complaining about. The core is very young. What was Thompson doing in the league when he was 21/22 ill tell you what he wasnt in the league full time.

“How can we support and expedite that growth, that maturity? It does take time, but I’ve talked to him specifically about that.”

“(Stutzle's) intentions are to go out there and help the Ottawa Senators on every single shift and using his God-given talents to be able to do it. So when it doesn't happen for him, there's some frustration. Now, as he matures, he's going to learn how to channel that in the right way."

Steve Staios, end of season media availability. Media trained folks are taught to repeat key messaging, and Steve referenced Tim’s maturity level at least twice on that particular day. It must be on his mind.

Anyhow, will Tim mature? Yes. Will his maturation and development as a reliable hockey player align with the timeline this team sees itself on? Maybe, although his play this year tells me he has a long way to go to be reliable in the eyes of a Daniel Alfredsson or a Steve Staios.

Can we win with him in the playoffs if he approaches the game the way he currently does? I don’t believe so, no. So again, the question becomes do we think he can change, and if so how quickly will he be able to?

If we stay the course with him, and we likely do, I’m content. But it’s the off-season, and we can toy around with concepts.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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“How can we support and expedite that growth, that maturity? It does take time, but I’ve talked to him specifically about that.”

“(Stutzle's) intentions are to go out there and help the Ottawa Senators on every single shift and using his God-given talents to be able to do it. So when it doesn't happen for him, there's some frustration. Now, as he matures, he's going to learn how to channel that in the right way."

Steve Staios, end of season media availability. Media trained folks are taught to repeat key messaging, and Steve referenced Tim’s maturity level at least twice on that particular day. It must be on his mind.

Anyhow, will Tim mature? Yes. Will his maturation and development as a reliable hockey player align with the timeline this team sees itself on? Maybe, although his play this year tells me he has a long way to go to be reliable in the eyes of a Daniel Alfredsson or a Steve Staios.

Can we win with him in the playoffs if he approaches the game the way he currently does? I don’t believe so, no. So again, the question becomes do we think he can change, and if so how quickly will he be able to?

If we stay the course with him, and we likely do, I’m content. But it’s the off-season, and we can toy around with concepts.
I think that's less being singled out as lacking maturity, and more discussing the natural progression of young players. Semantics I suppose, but the way you originally said it sounded much worse like he was well behind expectations in that regard.
 

slamigo

Skate or Die!
Dec 25, 2007
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Ottawa
Anyhow, I bring this type of proposition up because Timmy has been singled out by Steve Staios as lacking maturity. He's a one way puck hog of a player that, while not soft, is clearly containable when the opposition plays him gritty. Watching the playoffs and the style of play that leads to series wins, I'm not sure he's that guy short of a major leap in play style and poise.
This has to win as the most bonkers take on HFBoards in a long, long time. Wow.
 

Alf Silfversson

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
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“How can we support and expedite that growth, that maturity? It does take time, but I’ve talked to him specifically about that.”

“(Stutzle's) intentions are to go out there and help the Ottawa Senators on every single shift and using his God-given talents to be able to do it. So when it doesn't happen for him, there's some frustration. Now, as he matures, he's going to learn how to channel that in the right way."

Steve Staios, end of season media availability. Media trained folks are taught to repeat key messaging, and Steve referenced Tim’s maturity level at least twice on that particular day. It must be on his mind.

Anyhow, will Tim mature? Yes. Will his maturation and development as a reliable hockey player align with the timeline this team sees itself on? Maybe, although his play this year tells me he has a long way to go to be reliable in the eyes of a Daniel Alfredsson or a Steve Staios.

Can we win with him in the playoffs if he approaches the game the way he currently does? I don’t believe so, no. So again, the question becomes do we think he can change, and if so how quickly will he be able to?

If we stay the course with him, and we likely do, I’m content. But it’s the off-season, and we can toy around with concepts.

I'm very curious what about Thompson's game makes you think he'd do well in the playoffs. He's 6'6 but he's not some player that plays a gritty game or makes his bacon in the high traffic areas. He tends to use his unbelievable release to score from the perimeter more than he crashes the net. And he doesn't exactly play the game with tonnes of pace.

I see Stützle being able to adapt his game to postseason play much more easily than Thompson could. Not in small part because at age 20-21 Tim was scoring 90 points in the NHL while at the same age Thompson couldn't figure out how to stick with an NHL team.

Thompson is really nice player but he's not worth Tim Stützle.
 

Pierre from Orleans

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May 9, 2007
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I see Timmy playing a similar style to Mackinnon. Problem with Timmy is his hands aren't able to catch up to his brain whereas Mackinnons can. Not to mention the lack of physicality and size which should get better as he matures.

Trading Timmy would be as dumb as rehiring Dorion.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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I'm very curious what about Thompson's game makes you think he'd do well in the playoffs. He's 6'6 but he's not some player that plays a gritty game or makes his bacon in the high traffic areas. He tends to use his unbelievable release to score from the perimeter more than he crashes the net. And he doesn't exactly play the game with tonnes of pace.

I see Stützle being able to adapt his game to postseason play much more easily than Thompson could. Not in small part because at age 20-21 Tim was scoring 90 points in the NHL while at the same age Thompson couldn't figure out how to stick with an NHL team.

Thompson is really nice player but he's not worth Tim Stützle.
I like Thompson, I'd go with Timmy because he is 5 years younger and has more runway. I don't think we've seen the best of Timmy yet and I think we we have with Thompson.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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I see Timmy playing a similar style to Mackinnon. Problem with Timmy is his hands aren't able to catch up to his brain whereas Mackinnons can. Not to mention the lack of physicality and size which should get better as he matures.

Trading Timmy would be as dumb as rehiring Dorion.
I guess ... I would not put them on the same tier.. Mackinnon is bigger, faster, more powerful, more explosive... He is right there near the top of all NHL players.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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I guess ... I would not put them on the same tier.. Mackinnon is bigger, faster, more powerful, more explosive... He is right there near the top of all NHL players.
I'd say Stutzle is further along than MacKinnon at the same age, but MacKinnon really did explode into a premier player, so big shoes to fill.
 

Pierre from Orleans

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May 9, 2007
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I guess ... I would not put them on the same tier.. Mackinnon is bigger, faster, more powerful, more explosive... He is right there near the top of all NHL players.
I'm speaking in terms of style. Stuetzle is a go go go type of player who stick handles like a madman similar to Mack. He's smaller in stature and less strong for sure but when I watch him play their styles are similar despite the size and strength differences.
 

frightenedinmatenum2

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Sep 30, 2023
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Stutzle would have to be like Anthony DeAngelo levels of alleged toxicity before it makes sense to trade him in 99 percent of situations.

Based on his production so far in the league, he projects to have a good chance at being a future top 5-10 scorer type. The drop this year was due to injuries.

If he is immature, it's easier to bring in veterans to mentor him and hope he grows out of it than it is to trade him and find another Stutzle.

With that said, people talking about Tage Thompson as the return aren't exactly suggesting we liquidate Stutzle. That's another star player coming back. Not saying I would do it, but it's not the same as dealing Stutzle for a package deal or even the kind of return Eichel got.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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Oct 16, 2006
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Stutzle would have to be like Anthony DeAngelo levels of alleged toxicity before it makes sense to trade him in 99 percent of situations.

Based on his production so far in the league, he projects to have a good chance at being a future top 5-10 scorer type. The drop this year was due to injuries.

If he is immature, it's easier to bring in veterans to mentor him and hope he grows out of it than it is to trade him and find another Stutzle.

With that said, people talking about Tage Thompson as the return aren't exactly suggesting we liquidate Stutzle. That's another star player coming back. Not saying I would do it, but it's not the same as dealing Stutzle for a package deal or even the kind of return Eichel got.
It's been said a bunch of times already, but we only need to look back at the Zibanejad trade to know how bad of an idea it would be to move Stu because of perceived underachieving. He was hitting his targets and Stu arguably has too, even if it appears as a regression this year. We gave NYR their number 1 center for a decade, arguably contributing heavily to the need to rebuild at all, so we don't need to do that again.

They've had basically the exact same amount of games to this point as when Zbad was traded and while Timmy has put up more production in that time, it really shows how premature that move was. Imagine trading Stutzle now, it's just nuts. Given how poorly the other one worked out, I'd imagine nobody wants to entertain the idea even if Thompson is a solid player.
 

bert

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“How can we support and expedite that growth, that maturity? It does take time, but I’ve talked to him specifically about that.”

“(Stutzle's) intentions are to go out there and help the Ottawa Senators on every single shift and using his God-given talents to be able to do it. So when it doesn't happen for him, there's some frustration. Now, as he matures, he's going to learn how to channel that in the right way."

Steve Staios, end of season media availability. Media trained folks are taught to repeat key messaging, and Steve referenced Tim’s maturity level at least twice on that particular day. It must be on his mind.

Anyhow, will Tim mature? Yes. Will his maturation and development as a reliable hockey player align with the timeline this team sees itself on? Maybe, although his play this year tells me he has a long way to go to be reliable in the eyes of a Daniel Alfredsson or a Steve Staios.

Can we win with him in the playoffs if he approaches the game the way he currently does? I don’t believe so, no. So again, the question becomes do we think he can change, and if so how quickly will he be able to?

If we stay the course with him, and we likely do, I’m content. But it’s the off-season, and we can toy around with concepts.
Your Staios quote doesnt suggest anything you are insinuating. Stutzle is the time line. Him and Sanderson are both 21/22. Sens fans really need to come to grips this wont be some mega overhaul of this roster they are building around Stutzle, Sanderson, Greig, Pinto, Tkachuk, Batherson, Kleven etc. Thats the core they are all really young players. The sens are a small market team, it will be done properly and methodically. Slowly accumulating core pieces so there is sustained success. They are no where close to being a contender why on earth would they be trading first round picks like the guys on TSN1200 seem to think. It makes absolutely no logical sense.
 

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