Fred Shero deserves to be in the HOF!

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by OA83, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. OA83

    OA83 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fred Shero deserves to be in the HOF
    http://sportsbyoa83.blogspot.com

    There are many reasons why I feel that Freddy "The Fog" Shero deserves to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame.Simply based on statistics and not even taking into account his innovations in practice, training and using assistant coaches, I fail to see why the late great Freddy "The Fog" Shero is not in the NHL HOF.

    First of his coaching record is astounding! His coaching record with the Flyers and Rangers 714 games 386 wins 212 losses 116 ties for a .622 winning %. In his NHL coaching career he only missed the playoffs in his first season and he made it to the finals 4 times winning it twice. He also won the Jack Adams trophy once! In 1969-70 he coached the Buffalo Bisons of the AHL to a Championship and the very next year coached the Omaha Knights of the CHL to a Championship.

    So everywhere he ever coached he had success. He also had a very interesting life aside from hockey. Here is a brief history of his life prior to coachin the Flyers.

    The son of immigrants who fled Russia to escape religious persecution, Shero was born on October 23, 1925, in Winnipeg, Manitoba. He attended the University of Manitoba for two years and served in the Canadian navy where he made a name for himself in the field of athletics not as a hockey player but as a boxer. Shero was the lightweight and middleweight champion but rejected a $10,000 offer to turn professional, opting to play hockey instead.

    A marginal player at best, the defenseman played three seasons for the New York Rangers from 1947-1950. Those three years were sandwiched between a playing career that began in 1942 for the St. James Monarchs and ended in 1958 for the Shawinigan Cataracts. In 1957, Shero began his professional coaching career with Shawinigan. By 1971, he had held additional minor league coaching tenures for St. Paul, Omaha, and Buffalo, winning six first place titles during those years.

    His innovations and coaching tactics are what make him a clear cut Hall of Famer in my estimation.Practices under Shero could make an outsider shake his head in disbelief. To improve stick handling, tennis balls would replace hockey pucks. To increase leg strength, skaters would push a goalie seated in a folded chair around the ice. Forwards would practice breakaways while being slashed from behind. "Nobody ever lets you score an easy goal in a game," Shero said. "Why practice that way."

    He was also the source of some interesting quotes. His most famous being "Win together today and we walk together forever." Three hours later, the Flyers won the first of two consecutive Stanley Cups. One of the reason the "Broadstreet Bullies" were souch a tough checking team stems from this philosophy "Take the shortest route to the puck carrier, and arrive in ill humor." He stressed the importance of commitment by saying, "When you have bacon and eggs for breakfast, the chicken makes a contribution, but the pig makes a commitment." Even with all his success, this brilliant hockey mind never took himself too seriously. "Coaches are a dime a dozen," Shero said. "I found out a long time ago that only one thing wins for you--the players."

    I see absolutely no reason whatsoever that Fred Shero isn't in the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately if he ever gets enshrined in The Hall he won't be able to see it as he passed away in 1990 of cancer. Having said that I know that his induction would meen a lot to the city of Philadelphia, the Flyers faithful and his familly. Hopefully the HOF commitee wises up and votes him in ASAP. This is a huge injustice in my mind and hopefully it is rectified sooner rather than later.
     
  2. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Bandwagon
    Home Page:
    It's quite simple, because his success came from gooning it up. What's more, the committe is largely people who played in that era. So I doubt they'll care much for his style.

    Many also feal that his style did irreperable harm to the image of hockey.

    Is he the best coach not in the hall? Absolutly. Does he belong in the hall? Matter of perspective.
     
  3. BobbyClarkeFan16

    BobbyClarkeFan16 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    8,999
    Likes Received:
    449
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Help Desk Analyst
    Location:
    Goderich, Ontario
    That's such a big misconception. His success never came from gooning it up. His success came from playing the game with a ferocious forecheck and he wanted his players to play a physical game. The fact that they fought a lot means nothing with regards to gooning it up. You want to see a good example of Shero hockey today, look no further than the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. One of the best teams in the NHL, but leads the NHL in fighting majors.

    Yeah, because it's not as if guys like Jacques Lemaire or Ken Hitchcock didn't ruin hockey with that boring, watered down defensive systems that allowed for no creativity what so ever. At least with Shero's game, your skilled players could still play and not have to contend with a trap.

    No perspective about it. He is the best coach not in the hall and that's a travesty any way you look at it. It's like Art Monk not being in the NFL Hall of Fame. It's a joke any way you look at it and it reflects poorly on the league that they wouldn't recognize one of the best.
     
  4. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Newspaper reporter
    Location:
    Bentley reunion
    And therein lies the problem. There is no coach's wing in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Coaches fall under the builder's wing. Is he the best coach in the HHOF? Of course. Is he a better coach than some in the HHOF? Definitely. Would I vote for him if I had a vote? Yes. Will he get in eventually? Yes, but not with this generation of voters. Coaching is a results-based business, not a style-based business. Ask most GMs and owners who they'd rather have: a coach like Bryan Murray, who plays a high-tempo, offensive style of game, but can't get past the second round of the playoffs as a coach (largely because of his own coaching weaknesses); or a coach like Shero, who encouraged team play and hard work, but also goon tactics, and won two Cups, and every one will take the coach who gets the rings.

    Because it's a builders class he's going for, the voters have a hard time voting for the guy famous for guiding the Broad Street Bullies. They wouldn't care as much if it were a coaches' wing. But a builders' wing? That's a completely different story.
     
  5. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Bandwagon
    Home Page:
    Randy Carlyle-Not in HHoF

    Not saying I agree, just saying, that's why alot of voters aren't going to support him.


    Lemaire-In the HHoF as a player
    Hitchcock-Not in the HHoF


    Except, as GBC pointed out, there isn't a coaches wing, so, while it is possibly a snub, it's not like there's even criteria for him to get in, so it's hardly a travesty. If there's a travesty, it's the lack of a coaches wing.
     
  6. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Bottom line he's clearly more deserving than three of the more recent HoF coaching inductees: Herb Brooks, Bob Johnson and Roger Neilson.

    Won CHL and AHL championships.

    His NHL teams made it to the semi-Finals or better in all but his 1st and last NHL years. I'm almost positive that every other coach with 2 Stanley Cups or more is in the Hall.

    2 Stanley cups, 4 Finals, 7 semi-finals
    386-212-116 - .622 win%

    Other recently inducted coaches:

    Herb Brooks
    3 NCAA Champs
    1980 Gold Medal
    2002 Silver Medal

    Never even made it to the semi's in the NHL
    219-222-66 - .497 win%


    Bob Johnson
    3 NCAA Titles

    1 Stanley Cup, 2 Finals, 2 semi's
    234-188-58 - .548 win%

    Roger Neilson

    1 OHL Title (0 Memorial Cups)

    0 Stanley Cups, 1 Finals, 2 semi's
    449-371-157-3 - .540 win%
     
  7. ClassicHockey

    ClassicHockey Registered User

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good point God Bless about there not being a Coach's category and that Shero might not fit as a builder. I really respect your opinions but I respectfully disagree with your view that Shero is Hall of Fame worthy. One reason is that I have my own view on what a Hall of Famer should be. And Shero doesn't fit that view.

    Posters here seem to conveniently forget the negatives against Shero. There is absolutely, definitely, 100% no way that Shero's Flyers would have been successful without the goon tactics. No way. The players who played against the Flyers will tell you that. The players know - they really do. As Rick Martin said when asked about Bernie Parent," Parent, no it was the damn intimidation". The Shero supporters just can't see this. But you have to face it - Shero's success was built on the goon tactics as much as any other 'systems' he had.

    I also see that Shero's supporters just can't fathom the harm that Shero and his tactics did to the game at the NHL level and all the way down to youth hockey.

    That also gets sloughed off because all I see are stats about his coaching career as how worthy he is. That just isn't the way you look at a Hall of Fame. You can't just conveniently not take into account the negative aspects of a coach's career.

    Shero was also the master at bull and deception - the fact that he said he used Tarasov's methods makes me angry as most sane hockey people know that it was a smokescreen. Its actually utter garbage.

    So, everyone, try to get past the stats and see HOW his teams were successful and WHAT effect and legacy was left by this man.

    You have to consider those factors. And then if you really thought it out, you might
    see that there was enough negatives to this man's coaching career that he really doesn't belong in a Hall of Fame as a 'builder' of the game.





     
  8. OA83

    OA83 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Although I understand why some people feel the way they do about Shero, the fact is that the only "punishment" the HOF commitee is handing out is to the family of Fred Shero who know that he lived, breathed and loved the sport as much as anyone in history. Since he is no longer alive it would be appropriate to honor the things that he has brought to hockey ie. the hiring of assistant coaches, and practice innovations. Not to mention the winning he did at every level. I am slightly biast (and I'll openly admit that) since he is a part of my family and I am very proud of that.
     
  9. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:

    Love the Rick Martin quote ... sounds an awful lot like sour grapes from a guy who lost a Stanley Cup to the Flyers.

    19 periods of hockey during those finals and 18 of them were fight free (Sabres won the game with the only two fights). Flyers won that series because the LCB line was better than the French Connection, and Parent was far superior to Crozier and Desjardins.


    Bottom line is that as a professional hockey coach you're paid and judged based on wins and losses. Shero's teams won a lot more than they lost no matter the level he was coaching. They were also alwaysamong the very biggest road and TV draws.

    Winning hockey and filling buildings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2007
  10. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    138,052
    Likes Received:
    1,587
    Trophy Points:
    215
    These two guys never beat the Soviets either.
     
  11. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles High Plains Drifter

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Messages:
    51,186
    Likes Received:
    3,424
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Recently re-reading Jay Greenberg's book. He told of a game (Jan. 1972) when the Blues, again, beat the Flyers but this was one game with a twist. Flyers led at home 2-0. Blues' coach Al Arbour argued vehemently with the ref in between periods. A fan poured a beer onto Arbour. Blues' players went into the crowd and smacked the guy. Blues came out in the third and won the game 3-2. Seeing this and the past games when the Blues would wallop the Flyers in every sense of the word (it was near the end of a stretch in which the Flyers won just three times in 25 games against the Blues), Ed Snider decided the Flyers would stop being so passive and was impressed by St. Louis' defense of their coach and how they turned a loss into a W. They acquired Moose Dupont later that year. Interestingly, the next time the Blues won in Philadelphia (from that 1972 game) was in 1988 (34 or so games without a L).
     
  12. 04' hockey

    04' hockey Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Philly Firefighter
    Location:
    City of Brotherly Lo
    Home Page:

    What a horsesh*t post!, after getting beat to a pulp for how many years?, the Flyers responded and "did what the Romans where doing"
    Those teams had one of the greatest Captains/players ever and one of the greatest goalies ever!, along with HOF'er Bill Barber and great players like MacLeish, Leach, the Watson bros., Dupont, Kindrachuck, Clement, Dorny etc., these guys listened to one of the very best Coaches of all time and implemented his game plan.....sh*t, they beat the Boston Bruins, who by the way, employed the GREATEST hockey player E-V-E-R, the first Stanley Cup, and repeated the feat the following year by beating an absolute great skating team!!!
    Those Flyers teams defined TEAM! and were motivated by a great coach who inspired them. Classic Hockey, GOON THIS!!.....The FLYERS are the Stanley Cup CHAMPIONS for 1974 + 1975.....check your record books!!!

    I have never seen such disrespect for a GREAT Coach!

    :teach: :teach:

    SHERO EASILY BELONGS.

    Get on with your life Classic Hockey, maybe a hobby? :cry:
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2007
  13. David Puddy

    David Puddy Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2003
    Messages:
    5,824
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Home Page:
    Fred Shero should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame in my opinion. He guided the Philadelphia Flyers to two Stanley Cup Championships. He won a Jack Adams Award the first time that honor was given. Shero also won the Lester Patrick Trophy for "Outstanding Service to Hockey in the United States."

    Fred Shero was also a major factor in the Soviet School of hockey coming to North America. He made trips to Russia during the offseason to study the style of play.

    As for the best coach not in the Hockey Hall of Fame, Pat Burns should also get consideration. He won the Stanley Cup with the New Jersey Devils in 2002-03, and he has also won an unprecedented three Jack Adams Awards.
     
  14. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    101
    One of Shero's more unheralded accomplishments was in 1978-79 when he joined the Rangers and took those underachievers who had missed the playoffs three years in a row straight to the Stanley Cup Final. Ironically, the Rangers had to play Philly in the quarter-finals, and won the series very easily, blowing out the Flyers in most of the games. Since Shero had created that Flyer team, he knew exactly what their weaknesses were and how to exploit them.
     
  15. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Newspaper reporter
    Location:
    Bentley reunion
    I think if we're talking strictly from a coach's perspective, Shero does belong over all three. But it's not the coach's wing. It's the builder's wing.

    Herb Brooks should have been inducted years ago. It really is a shame that he wasn't. While he will be forever known for one moment - the Miracle on Ice - the Miracle on Ice did more to contribute to the popularity of the sport in the U.S. than anything else in history. Young American kids were inspired by the Miracle on Ice, and it resulted in some of the best U.S. draft classes in history in the ensuing years. Likely doesn't happen without Herb Brooks. That's why he's in the HHOF.

    Roger Neilson? Never won a Cup and he's sub-.500 as a coach. Now, he never had that legitimate Cup contender outside of 1991 with the Rangers (when he was undermined by Richter's poor play), but when you look at his resume, he's borderline. He did a lot of good with a lot of bad teams. But as a builder? He's a no-brainer. His work with his hockey camps and his popularizing of video are big pluses for his portfolio. Plus, he was a beloved character, and that counts for a lot. When he was inducted, he was the star that night. Very rare when a builder gets the bulk of the limelight. There have been very few coaches who have given back more than Roger Neilson.

    Badger Bob Johnson? I never viewed him as the best X's and O's coach, but he might be the best "player's coach" ever. He was a good enough tactician that his teams were always prepared, but what set him apart were his personality and attitude. His players would go through the wall for him. No way that Pittsburgh wins the Cup in 1991 without him. That locker room was a mess before he arrived, and while he wasn't a strict disciplinarian or anything like that, his demeanour and offensive mind were the perfect fit for that team. Especially after Gene Ubriaco.
     
  16. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles High Plains Drifter

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Messages:
    51,186
    Likes Received:
    3,424
    Trophy Points:
    190
    It didn't help the Flyers to lose Bernie Parent to a career ending eye injury in Feb. of 1979. Robbie Moore played much of the playoffs that season.
     
  17. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    101
    True, but Moore can't be blamed for the Flyers only scoring 8 goals over the entire 5 game series, which is pretty low for the late-70s
     
  18. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2003
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    279
    Trophy Points:
    154
    People forget how great those Flyers teams were. Sure they won a lot of games by intimidation but dotn forget the talent they had on those teams. Clarke, Barber both HOFers. Parent at his peak was about as good as Hasek. MacLeish and Leach arent HOFers but played like ones during that time.

    So what they won a lot of games by intimidation. I dont know why so many tree-huggers here are so much for figure skating. I love a great skating team too but if another team has a certain strength like size they shoudl use it. In Hockey you can hit just to let you know. The Habs were a great skating team in '76 but they were also tough. Robinson, Bouchard and even Savard could dish them out if they had to. You think New Jersey wins three Cups without Stevens? And why was he so great? Well for starters he scared the life out of a forward crossing the blueline. That's hockey. The Flyers of the '70s did this better than anyone else. Kudos to Shero
     
  19. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles High Plains Drifter

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Messages:
    51,186
    Likes Received:
    3,424
    Trophy Points:
    190
    And who can forget the Rangers' Bobby Sheehan that post-season.

    I just meant that a healthy Parent, IMHO, would have kept the series a helluva lot closer than the combo of Moore and Stephenson. There is no guarantee of that but Moore played just one "more" NHL game -- about three years later (for Washington) and Stephenson played just two more season (76 games, also for the Caps).
     
  20. ClassicHockey

    ClassicHockey Registered User

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I always give some latitude to those posters who are from Philly because they are so devoted that they are not capable of seeing a bigger picture. You guys can't help it.
    You are passionate and that is good but unfortunately that leads to blindness.

    But there is a hockey world outside of Philly.

    You just have no comprehension about the history of the game and what true greatness is.

    Greatness is not winning by brutality and causing commissions to be formed to stop the violence that permeated the game when the Flyers were in their heyday.

    No one said Shero wasn't a great coach in his own way but his methods were distasteful to anyone outside of Flyer fans.

    Geez, you are so blind.

    You have to face the fact that Shero was not loved outside of Philly and his brand of hockey was bad for the game. His drinking binges were legendary as well. He was not a role model for what young coaches should be. Mention his name up here and you get a look of disgust. Mention his team up here and you automatically get 'bullies'

    Mention the Stanley cups and you will hear the word 'tainted.'

    How does a coach whose methods were bad for the game rate as a Hall of Famer?

    How sad that you won't regognize the truth.

    Shero and the Flyers of that era have gone down in history for the thugs they were.

    Nothing can change that now.


     
  21. jiggs 10

    jiggs 10 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Hockeytown, ND
    Home Page:
    Shero was a decent coach. That's it. He enabled an average team to win 2 (tainted) Cups by getting them to play cartoonish hockey and intimidate enough teams to make it into the playoffs. When they had to play it straight, they were just a good team. If not for Bernie Parent, they would have 0 Cups to this day.

    Go read "Thin Ice", about the 1979-80 Rangers' season. It is hilarious to read about Shero's drinking binges and "accidents" and the wacky stuff he tried to pull during practices. The players just tuned him out about halfway through the season and did what they wanted to. Maybe that's why Fred got the ax shortly after.

    The Flyers weren't goons? Yeah, "Battleship" Kelly was a real skilled player! Ditto Don Saleski and Andre Dupont. He could barely stand up on skates! The only players with NHL skill on those teams were Reggie Leach, Bill Barber, and Bernie Parent. Booby (sic) Clarke was the ringleader and chief "windmill" with his stick, and got everyone worked up into a frenzy, but could have been a better player without all the theatrics. And Dave Schultz........ HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    No HOF for Freddie. Heck, Mike Keenan is a better choice to be in. Come to think of it, HE'S universally disliked by the press too! Hum.....
     
  22. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Bandwagon
    Home Page:
    Keenan's an interesting one. Great coach, but alot of blackmarks on his record as a GM...
     
  23. 04' hockey

    04' hockey Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Philly Firefighter
    Location:
    City of Brotherly Lo
    Home Page:

    Spare me your latitude.....care to explain John Ferguson, Rick Chartraw, Gilles Lupien, Chris Nilan, Lyle Odelien, Gino Odjick etc., etc.?

    Actually Shero and the Flyers have gone down in history as Stanley Cup Champions, 2 YEARS IN A ROW.

    Who cares about "UP HERE", do us a favor down here and STAY UP THERE.

    I think I'll have a beer in honor of Fred Shero, who by the way stated "20 choir boys will never win a Stanley Cup".....truer words were never spoken. Ahh, the wisdom. :eek:
     
  24. Zine

    Zine Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    10,728
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    176
    Location:
    Rostov-on-Don
    Considering his Flyers were spanked by the extremely clean, sportmanlike, skilled, choir boy Canadiens in '76...he was likely drunk when he made that comment.
     
  25. 04' hockey

    04' hockey Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2003
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Philly Firefighter
    Location:
    City of Brotherly Lo
    Home Page:
    And if Parent were playing that year?.....my dog could have played behind Robinson, Savard, Lapointe and Nyrop.

    Now 77', I won't even go there ;)
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"