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Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Noah Cates To Two Year Contract - Avoid Arbitration ($2.625M AAV)

Curufinwe

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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deadhead said:
no one considers Gourde as offensively talented.
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Gourde has 217 ESP and 45 PPP in 443 GP since he became a regular. Scores at the same P/GP as Max Domi and Jordan Eberle and Kevin Hayes.

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Why are you so bad at this, and why do you seem to be getting worse?
 
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prototypical4thliner

prototypical4thliner

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The more and more I think of this, the more I’m worried it’s going to blow up on Briere. Combine the use Cates gets and the short contract, there is real potential that Cates does go on a bit of a heater and really drive his contract value up.

I think he’s a useful bottom six guy and actually like his game. I think there would have been more value giving him a Laughton deal, as nuts as that seems. All the advantages of the short deal are for Cates, not the flyers.
 
Curufinwe

Curufinwe

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Why would Cates take 5 x $3m when he got 2 x $2.65m? If anything Laughton serves as an example of a guy who got bridged twice pretty cheaply, then signed another cheap deal that takes him thru the rest of his prime and makes him a UFA at age 32.

Can't guarantee anything with crazy old Torts in charge, but Cates' oversized PP role from last season should be reduced with Atkinson and Couturier coming back.
 
prototypical4thliner

prototypical4thliner

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Curufinwe said:
Why would Cates take 5 x $3m when he got 2 x $2.65m? If anything Laughton serves as an example of a guy who got bridged twice pretty cheaply, then signed another cheap deal that takes him thru the rest of his prime and makes him a UFA at age 32.

Can't guarantee anything with crazy old Torts in charge, but Cates' oversized PP role from last season should be reduced with Atkinson and Couturier coming back.
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Don’t meant the exact 3x5. I meant a longer term deal eating into UFA instead of a straight bridge. 5x3.6 or something similar.

I think that cates is going to have advantageous use which will drive his value in a trade. Of course the flyers won’t trade Laughton so that shoots down the concept…
 
deadhead

deadhead

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prototypical4thliner said:
Don’t meant the exact 3x5. I meant a longer term deal eating into UFA instead of a straight bridge. 5x3.6 or something similar.

I think that cates is going to have advantageous use which will drive his value in a trade. Of course the flyers won’t trade Laughton so that shoots down the concept…
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Problem is there's no reason for Cates to take that deal given the cap starts rising next season.
And a long-term deal priced based on those cap increases would be risky for a player who's been a center for less than a season.
 

wasup

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When I look at the Cates contract I think it is a bit of an over pay but it's not totally unreasonable . Risto Hayes TDA JVR Meat Pig Ellis Provo Farabee were on way worse contracts last year than this so I can't sweat a 2.6 mil contract for a useful player .
 
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deadhead

deadhead

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Cates is at center b/c the alternative is Laughton.

He's not a scorer, but his xGF/60 was similar to Frost when both became full-time starters at center last year. This year he leads the team in xGF/60 after 4 games with a ridiculous 4.55.

How can a bad offensive player create scoring chances when he's on the ice? Because Cates' strength is his great hands and instincts, he's really good at puck retrieval. Putting Brink with him gives his line a playmaker.
 
VladDrag

VladDrag

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deadhead said:
Cates is at center b/c the alternative is Laughton.

He's not a scorer, but his xGF/60 was similar to Frost when both became full-time starters at center last year. This year he leads the team in xGF/60 after 4 games with a ridiculous 4.55.

How can a bad offensive player create scoring chances when he's on the ice? Because Cates' strength is his great hands and instincts, he's really good at puck retrieval. Putting Brink with him gives his line a playmaker.
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Cates is a center b/c Torts thinks he's a good center. He clearly values the defensive aspect that Cates brings. He even said that he thinks Cates can take a step forward as a offensive player.

You know that xGF has zero context on how he's contributing offensively. He's been on the ice for quality chances, but he's not a part of them. So far in this early season, it's the exact same thing as last season.

Once again, I'll post a graph that take account into how players are individually playing. He's clearly the best defensive player on the team, but he's the second worst offensive player on the team.

1697829349857.png
 
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Magua

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VladDrag said:
He even said that he thinks Cates can take a step forward as a offensive player.
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“Now he has to put some pressure on himself as far as the offensive part of the game without losing that part [defense] and he won’t,” Flyers coach John Tortorella said. “Put himself in the situation where he wants to create offense. If you know Noah, he’s been thinking about that from the get-go that he wants to be a complete player and put up points.

“A lot of people don’t talk about his offense. I think he had a good offensive year and how much I gave him as such a young guy that switched positions from wing to center at a National Hockey League team, a team that was struggling to find its way last year and going through the process and I still think he put up some pretty decent numbers. That’s the next step for him as far as I’m concerned.”
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Just wanted to provide a quote. It's such a stark contrast to how he talks about Frost. But I mean we saw it among fans projecting him to 50+ points. Couturier comparison were thrown around, never mind age or past production. Hell, I'll even quote your favorite writer, Chaz O'Connor:

In just a couple of weeks, he showcased more tangible power-play ability in the offensive zone than Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee had all season.

So perhaps there is untapped offensive upside in Cates. After all, he produced at a 1.74 points/60 rate from January through the end of the year, which is solidly in middle-six territory. Give him that all season, and we’re talking about a 45-point campaign in 2022-23 for Cates, rather than a sub-40 one. That would more than play from a middle-six shutdown center.
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BillDineen

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Cates has more offense because the pro and amateur scouts that have been so right the past 15 years see it. Hmmm
 
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Beef Invictus

Beef Invictus

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The only reason they think he has more offense is because they think defense creates goals all on its own, by virtue of itself and nothing else.

They can't explain how without puking forth a bunch of Hockey Guy Nonsense about "playing right being rewarded," but they're just that dumb and short-sighted.
 
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deadhead

deadhead

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VladDrag said:
Cates is a center b/c Torts thinks he's a good center. He clearly values the defensive aspect that Cates brings. He even said that he thinks Cates can take a step forward as a offensive player.

You know that xGF has zero context on how he's contributing offensively. He's been on the ice for quality chances, but he's not a part of them. So far in this early season, it's the exact same thing as last season.

Once again, I'll post a graph that take account into how players are individually playing. He's clearly the best defensive player on the team, but he's the second worst offensive player on the team.

View attachment 755352
Click to expand...
If you going with McCurdy, explain why Torts is in the upper right hand quadrent among HCs?

1697833880103.png

 
freakydallas13

freakydallas13

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deadhead

deadhead

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Getting back to Cates, he's better offensively at LW than Center, but he's exceptional on defense at center.

Problem is Flyers don't have depth at center, Laughton should be at LW.

If Gauthier can't play center, he can plug a hole at LW, but you still need to find a 2C if Frost doesn't step up. Michkov got moved back to RW at Sochi, will they let him play center? Hard to see Barkey staying at center for same reason they probably wouldn't move Brink there - size is an issue on defense.

Ideally, with more depth at center, Cates would be a 2LW who can move to 3C on an energy/defensive line in the 3rd period with a lead.
 
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