Flyers pull goalie approximately 1 minute after being eliminated, gift Caps playoff spot

[GirardSpinorama]

No, I’m telling you that when they pulled the goalie they would still have actually been fighting for their playoff spot. In the scenario that happened they were not. Like I said originally, even though they didn’t know they were eliminated yet doesn’t mean they weren’t. I understand why they pulled the goalie, but the timing just makes Detroits elimination a tougher one to accept

Thats your problem. The Flyers needed to win in regulation to have a chance. Pulling a goalie makes complete sense to them. They didnt owe detroit anything.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Answer this.

What would have happened if Torts finds out Detroit scores 1 minute before he decides to pull his goalie, so never ends up doing so, only to find out the goal was challenged and overturned? He would have looked the fool. So to prevent that, he stuck to his plan and let the chips fall where they may.

Things happened fast and its easy while sitting on a couch to second guess, but on real time, while fighting for their season they made the call that was best beneficial to the Flyers. Any one of us would have done the same and your a liar if you claim otherwise.

I get that and i wasnt questioning torts. I understand why he wouldnt be checking score every second too as he needs to focus on his game.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

I'm not assigning blame anywhere, buddy. It didn't make a difference to me. I'm just saying that, on a personal note, it feels like pulling the goalie with more than three minutes left is a bad if not questionable decision. Acknowledging that nobody knows what happens in alternate realities where the goalie is or is not pulled is neither a deep nor interesting contribution. By that strand of analysis, why not ask the question of why he didn't start the game with an empty net because we'll never know what might have happened!? Why go out of your way to make a point with which nobody was bothering?

Should Tortorella pull the goalie in a tie game? Obviously the answer is "yes" because the condition going in is to win it in regulation. It's not his job to monitor the scoreboard or to put up a fight for some other club's sake, and I've never said otherwise. However, the amount of time on the clock is a fair question since the convention on pulling the net minder is almost always closer to sixty seconds than two-hundred.

Its a weird situation because analytics do t run the scenario for a tie game. Normally if you are down a goal, you pull the goalie cuz otherwise the opponent can kill time til overtime passing the puck in their own zone if you dont get posession because the other team has no need to score another goal and take risks and can go into defensive shell.

But in a tie game Unless the other team is securing playoff position with 1 point which caos werent, they arent tryibg to go in defensive shell and not just trying to kill clock so you can still capitalize on possible turnovers or counter attacks if you play normally.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Teams pull their goalies much earlier now, it’s a new trend. I’ve seen them pull goalie with 5-6 minutes left down by 2, and those teams are just trying to get to OT.

I see goalies pulled with between 2-3 minutes left , down by 1 goal, trying to get to OT. Over 2 minutes is commonplace now,

Yes but this situation is a bit unique and different that because is a tie game. Usually they pull the goalie early under the rationale that the opposing team is just trying to kill 2-3 minutes and wont take scoring chances rather than just killing the clock since they are already ahead and winning game so there wont be great offensiveopportu ities unless you can create an advamtage as opposing team wont take risks. But in this situation since its a tie game and the capitals needed a win, they arent gonna just go into a defensive shell the final 3 minutes of the game and are still playing regularly like its tied taking offensive chamces that can lead to clunterattacks. Therefore waiting longer might make more sense again.

 

[Rpenny]

This is one of the funniest threads in HF history.

getting pissed because I team needed to win in regulation and tried to anyway they could

 

[Golden_Jet]

edit

 

[Extra Texture]

This is one of the funniest threads in HF history.

getting pissed because I team needed to win in regulation and tried to anyway they could

Exactly. i cant believe its gone for 25 pages.

And I cant believe that anyone seriously thinks, with the games going on simultaneously, and a minute between the goals, that there would've been enough time and clarity to see the goafor Detroit, acknowledge and quickly change course in Philly, and the pulled goalie decision would be reversed. All that shit doesnt happen instantly, it takes time, recognition, and the right situation to go down. Once the wheels were in motion, unless there was an immediate stoppage with a lengthy delay to get the goalie back in net, it was too late.

At the end of the day, the Wings, Pens and Flyers dug their own graves weeks and months ago. The bizarre confluence of events that led to this will be a trivia question one day, I'm sure, but it isnt something to pin the blame on a "must win" snap decision by a coach coaching a tense game whose info was 60 seconds out of date.

 

[AndreRoy]

Imagine thinking any other team owes you anything. Torts job is to win, he did what he thought put his team in the best position to win. I mean, that's what I want from a coach.

Reminds me of legendary college football coach Steve Spurrier: when asked once about his team running up the score on a rival, he replied, “It’s not my job to stop my offense. It’s their job to stop my offense.” It wasn’t Torts’s job to get the Red Wings in the playoffs - it was the Red Wings’ job, and they failed at it.

If you allow your hopes and dreams to be at the mercy of another team (especially one you aren’t playing), you deserve what happens to you.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

It wasn’t tied, Philly was down by a goal, and had to win in regulation, to have any hope.
Washington just needed 2 points to knock everyone else out.

Philly wasnt down a goal. It was a tie game when they pulled their goalie. Now i understand they needednto win in regulation, but considering washington needs 2 points and isnt going i to a defensive shell like they would if they were up a goal in a normal game since its technically tie, i think 3 minutes is a little early.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Philly wasnt down a goal. It was a tie game when they pulled their goalie. Now i understand they needednto win in regulation, but considering washington needs 2 points and isnt going i to a defensive shell like they would if they were up a goal in a normal game since its technically tie, i think 3 minutes is a little early.

Oops ya, anything less than 4 minutes wouldn’t have surprised me. Three seems about right.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Torts wanted to put more pressure on the Yzerplan...

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

It wasn’t tied, Philly was down by a goal, and had to win in regulation, to have any hope.
Washington just needed 2 points to knock everyone else out.

It was tied 1-1 when Philly pulled their goalie and then yanked him again after Oshie made it 2-1

 

[AndreRoy]

Its a weird situation because analytics do t run the scenario for a tie game. Normally if you are down a goal, you pull the goalie cuz otherwise the opponent can kill time til overtime passing the puck in their own zone if you dont get posession because the other team has no need to score another goal and take risks and can go into defensive shell.

But in a tie game Unless the other team is securing playoff position with 1 point which caos werent, they arent tryibg to go in defensive shell and not just trying to kill clock so you can still capitalize on possible turnovers or counter attacks if you play normally.

It’s not just about beating a defensive shell - it’s about creating a higher event probability. If the status quo means a loss, then increasing the likelihood of that status quo changing is beneficial, even if the increased likelihood favors the other team more than yours.

Think of it this way: Philly is tied, which for them in this playoff scenario equates to a loss. Suppose that each team has a 5% chance of scoring a goal in the last minute of play at even strength. To win, the Flyers need to score AND they need the Caps to not score; the probability of that (assuming for the moment that the events are independent) is 0.05 * (1-0.05) = 0.0475, or 4.75%.

Now suppose that by pulling his goalie, Torts can increase the probability of his team scoring to 15%, at the cost of also increasing his opponent’s probability of scoring to 50%. Now the probability of the Flyers scoring and the Caps not scoring (again assuming independence) becomes 0.15 * (1-0.5) = 0.075, or 7.5%. Torts has thereby improved his team’s chances of winning by increasing the odds of scoring for both teams, even though he increased the Caps’ odds far more than his own.

This is of course a drastic oversimplification. To begin with each team is capable of scoring more than once in the final minute of play. In addition the events are not independent: if the Flyers were to score first they would put their goalie back in, which would then impact the probabilities of both teams scoring from that point forward. So the actual calculation would be far more complex, and that doesn’t even get into the problem of accurately determining the underlying scoring probabilities in the first place, or the fact that we’re talking about calculating probabilities deriving from a single decision while ignoring the impact of numerous other decisions that can be made by both sides. This is intended merely as a thought experiment - a simple way of putting some numbers to a concept that may not be easily quantifiable in practice, but which can be intuitively understood.

 

[drw13]

Thats your problem. The Flyers needed to win in regulation to have a chance. Pulling a goalie makes complete sense to them. They didnt owe detroit anything.

There is no problem. You just repeated something I already said myself. Never asked for sympathy, just said it sucks extra to get eliminated like

 

[NyQuil]