Flyers pull goalie approximately 1 minute after being eliminated, gift Caps playoff spot

[Fatass]

Detroit needed to win more games earlier in the year. Didn’t they lose a couple in the last month to the Caps? Missing the playoffs is more than just the last game.

 

[nothingbeatshockey]

So we’re being asked to believe that Torts pulled his goalie, even knowing that Detroit had forced at OT [maybe a whole 60 seconds earlier], just so he could screw over Detroit. And, in doing so, he gives an advantage to the Capitals, his long-standing conference rival?

Give me a break.

 

[the paisanos guy]

Just look at this face

He knew.

 

[powerbomb]

But teh analytics say ...

If Torts doesn't pull the goalie early and the Flyers don't win in regulation, he gets blamed for not pulling the goalie earlier. Especially if other games break such that a regulation win would have put the Flyers in the 2WC spot pending the Penguins game tonight. For all we know, he could have left the goalie in and Washington still would have scored. Or, it would have gone to OT and Washington might have won it there. Or, it could have gone to the shootout and Washington might have won it there.

No one knows, and anyone trying to guess is speculating without any proof at all. Stick to the facts we know. Again, this ultimately comes down to Detroit not doing what it should have earlier in the season and being stuck in the situation where it needed to win and get other help to get in. Don't blame others for not helping Detroit out, blame Detroit for not getting its shit together and avoiding being in that spot.

I'm not assigning blame anywhere, buddy. It didn't make a difference to me. I'm just saying that, on a personal note, it feels like pulling the goalie with more than three minutes left is a bad if not questionable decision. Acknowledging that nobody knows what happens in alternate realities where the goalie is or is not pulled is neither a deep nor interesting contribution. By that strand of analysis, why not ask the question of why he didn't start the game with an empty net because we'll never know what might have happened!? Why go out of your way to make a point with which nobody was bothering?

Should Tortorella pull the goalie in a tie game? Obviously the answer is "yes" because the condition going in is to win it in regulation. It's not his job to monitor the scoreboard or to put up a fight for some other club's sake, and I've never said otherwise. However, the amount of time on the clock is a fair question since the convention on pulling the net minder is almost always closer to sixty seconds than two-hundred.

 

[kugelbahn]

Pens lost anyway, so that Torts dirty trick did not screw them

 

[Pukboy5kroner]

Just look at this faceView attachment 854157

He knew.

That's an old pic.

 

[66-30-33]

Detroit needed to win more games earlier in the year. Didn’t they lose a couple in the last month to the Caps? Missing the playoffs is more than just the last game.

Detroit should have beat Pens in their last game, would have been in.
Pens should have beat Colorado when they had a 4-0 lead or CBJ when we had a 3-1 lead, would have been in.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Acknowledging that nobody knows what happens in alternate realities where the goalie is or is not pulled is neither a deep nor interesting contribution. By that strand of analysis, why not ask the question of why he didn't start the game with an empty net because we'll never know what might have happened!? Why go out of your way to make a point with which nobody was bothering?

By "that strand of analysis" you should ask why Tortorella didn't just play 18 forwards, too.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, no one thinks just start the game 6-on-5, leave the net empty, try to get the first goal is a rational decision when trying to win a game in regulation .... except, apparently you for mentioning it. As I noted (and which you seem to want to argue about), the only reason anyone is questioning it after the fact is because it didn't work in the moment - but no one, including you, has any idea whether your idea would have worked or not and someone who thinks what he did makes sense might well criticize your idea had it been employed and it didn't work either.

But, if you need to go tilt at windmills with non sequitur statements, help yourself.

 

[BTO]

So?

 

[Nogatco Rd]

yeah man, the Wings have sucked so much, I've only had the pleasure of watching them win 4 Cups, one of them probably the easiest Cup final of all time in 1998

enlighten me on all the Cups you've seen your beloved Capitals win...?

enjoy getting swept by the Rangers, your -175 goal differential this year really shows you deserve to be in the playoffs

I like my wingzz extra salty

 

[Toby91ca]

Really?

And what did they sell exactly, limonade?

Guentzl?

 

[chaser17]

Answer this.

What would have happened if Torts finds out Detroit scores 1 minute before he decides to pull his goalie, so never ends up doing so, only to find out the goal was challenged and overturned? He would have looked the fool. So to prevent that, he stuck to his plan and let the chips fall where they may.

Things happened fast and its easy while sitting on a couch to second guess, but on real time, while fighting for their season they made the call that was best beneficial to the Flyers. Any one of us would have done the same and your a liar if you claim otherwise.

Also, can't imagine Torts would be the kind of coach to allow his video coach to be yelling out live updates to him on the bench while actively trying to keep his team focused on trying to win the game in regulation.

 

[vippe]

When was the Penguins' stage of sucking? They're 8-1-3 in their last 12 games.

The Pens definitely had a stage of sucking, but it was a bit further out than the last 3 weeks. So my bad.

7 losses in 8 games is pretty terrible stage of sucking dont you think ? - even if it was right around the last quarter of the season and not 3 weeks which I incorrectly said.

 

[Rpenny]

This is one of the dumbest ideas in a thread full of dumbness. Why on earth would the league go out of its way and reschedule games, just to make things convenient for the Detroit Red Wings? Why not make things convenient for the Philadelphia Flyers, or Washington Capitals instead? How is any of that remotely reasonable, to pick a team to make a convenience for? Specifically to make a single game strategy decision by Torts no longer meaningful. This thought process only exists in HF fans brains, not in any real world run by professionals.

How's this: Make the Wings game start when the Caps/Flyers game is completely over, since the only team that controlled their destiny was the Caps? Caps win, then the Wings can mail it in. Caps lose in OT or regulation, then the Wings have a chance and a reason to play hard. Yeah, this is still stupid.

Here's a better idea... everyone just plays to win the game, and the chips all fall where they fall. Torts needed to win in regulation to have any chance. He also needed to win in regulation to eliminate the Caps. So regardless of what happened in Detroit, Torts wants to eliminate the Caps with a regulation win, which may easily explain why he pulled the goalie without checking with Wings fans first to see if it was OK.

Because some posters are just trying to twist how and why Torts is insane, He wanted the flyers to beat the caps at all cost. Wings paid the price. Flyers knew a single point by the Caps would have f***ed them and they decided to be their own masters at the end of the day, Wing fans are taking the perspective the moment the wings got their single point that the flyers should have given up. That the best way I can describe their fan base disgust. I am sort of happy how it all unfolded after seeing the tears from their fan base. BTW. Before they realize I am an oiler fan and we are going up against the Knights. I have Vegas over the oilers in 4 or 5

 

[LuGBuG]

wrong

it was AT LEAST 2 and a half minutes. I was watching both games, so youre flat out wrong

You need to get outside today bud

How can you not comprehend what is being said? Mind boggling stuff.

Comprehending just fine that the Red Wings are out and Wings fans are being absolutely delusional in their takes. I’m sure 31 fan bases agree.

 

[powerbomb]

By "that strand of analysis" you should ask why Tortorella didn't just play 18 forwards, too.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, no one thinks just start the game 6-on-5, leave the net empty, try to get the first goal is a rational decision when trying to win a game in regulation .... except, apparently you for mentioning it. As I noted (and which you seem to want to argue about), the only reason anyone is questioning it after the fact is because it didn't work in the moment - but no one, including you, has any idea whether your idea would have worked or not and someone who thinks what he did makes sense might well criticize your idea had it been employed and it didn't work either.

But, if you need to go tilt at windmills with non sequitur statements, help yourself.

So you’re saying that nobody can or should question any coaching decision by virtue of the fact that they cannot know what would have happened in an alternate reality? Great take!



Convention when pulling the goalie is much closer to 60-seconds than 200-seconds. But by all means, continue to challenge anyone that dared to raise an eyebrow.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Amuses me how many posters are getting the knickers in a twist over this. Pretty straight forward. Remove any discussion about how this game affected the Red Wings. They were playing elsewhere. As been stated numerous times. Flyers needed to win in regulation to take things tie breakers to see if they made the playoffs depending on who they were tied with. If they had won and the wings and Caps(obviously) lost--this would have been nuts.

You need to look at Flyers vs Caps and I believe someone posted that if they ended up with same points, flyers would have made the playoffs(again I am not sure). It has to be in regulation. Flyers could not go to OT. Remember this is Flyers vs Caps. As we know the Caps had the tie breaker over the Wings. Flyers could not go into over time at all. Cap get any point the flyers are dead and on the golf course.

Flyers needed to win by one goal in regulation and Torts knew that. HE did not care about the wings game, that was not his concern and as General Patton said in WW2-- "You fight the enemy you can see" and it was the caps on the night. Red Wing were on another battle field. Torts and the flyers needed to win in Regulation and they did everything they could to do that.

That is the end of the discussion. How their actions affected the Wings mean nothing. The Wings needed the Flyers to win as well--but in either Regulation or OT but the flyers knew if they went to OT they were out and would be playing like they were gone.

Make complete sense for those how had no dog in the fight

 

[kihei]

What a tempest in a tea pot.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm not assigning blame anywhere, buddy. It didn't make a difference to me. I'm just saying that, on a personal note, it feels like pulling the goalie with more than three minutes left is a bad if not questionable decision. Acknowledging that nobody knows what happens in alternate realities where the goalie is or is not pulled is neither a deep nor interesting contribution. By that strand of analysis, why not ask the question of why he didn't start the game with an empty net because we'll never know what might have happened!? Why go out of your way to make a point with which nobody was bothering?

Should Tortorella pull the goalie in a tie game? Obviously the answer is "yes" because the condition going in is to win it in regulation. It's not his job to monitor the scoreboard or to put up a fight for some other club's sake, and I've never said otherwise. However, the amount of time on the clock is a fair question since the convention on pulling the net minder is almost always closer to sixty seconds than two-hundred.

Teams pull their goalies much earlier now, it’s a new trend. I’ve seen them pull goalie with 5-6 minutes left down by 2, and those teams are just trying to get to OT.

I see goalies pulled with between 2-3 minutes left , down by 1 goal, trying to get to OT. Over 2 minutes is commonplace now,

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

So you’re saying that nobody can or should question any coaching decision by virtue of the fact that they cannot know what would have happened in an alternate reality? Great take!



Convention when pulling the goalie is much closer to 60-seconds than 200-seconds. But by all means, continue to challenge anyone that dared to raise an eyebrow.

Patrick Roy disagrees

 

[HolyGhost]

The Wings were. But I guess that's just beyond Tortorella's and his assistants' ability

Or the fact the Wings NEEDED to watch the other game. Flyers and Caps did not. AS we now know. Once the caps won their game meant nothing. Figuring this shit out is not hard.

Imagine thinking any other team owes you anything. Torts job is to win, he did what he thought put his team in the best position to win. I mean, that's what I want from a coach.

SOMEONE WHO GETS IT.

Flyers had to win in regulation. End of discussion. OT meant they were out. Wings fans just are not GETTING that.

 

[Toby91ca]

I'm sorry, but this is one of the dumbest debates I've seen. Lots of people talking about whether he knew or didn't know or how long before he pulled the goalie did DET score and if it was 3 min, that's plenty of time to get word to him, etc. Seriously, what the bleep are people talking about?

Going into the the game, the one fact PHI had was that if they don't get a win in regulation, their season is over. So if they were tied late in the 3rd, there is no debate, you are pulling the goalie to get that goal as that's your only chance. So, that's them going into the game. Who on earth, would then say, ok, that's our plan, but I really need to keep an eye on the other games because if DET gets to OT, we are done no matter what we do in this game......so please, please make sure I get that update so I don't pull the goalie if I don't need to......like seriously....why? Why would I care? Getting into OT in that game vs. losing in OT does not put PHI in any better position, in fact, probably puts them in a worse position, so knowing that + only chance of getting to playoffs being winning in regulation there is absolutely no information you could provide me that would cause me not to pull the goalie.

 

[Kegu]

the salt? what are you talking about? We missed the playoffs because Washington was given a freebie. This is now 8 years since we've seen a playoff game. Were supposed to be cheerful and happy about it? Like it would be concerning if Wings fans and players werent salty after getting hosed like that

You missed the playoffs because you failed to win enough games full stop. Take ownership.. the team wasn't good enough.

 

[Hivemind]

Imagine thinking any other team owes you anything. Torts job is to win, he did what he thought put his team in the best position to win. I mean, that's what I want from a coach.

I agree with the first half of your statement, but also what Torts' thinks is the best position to win is pretty laughable. Torts had Scott Laughton, Noah Cates,, and Garnet Hatheway on the ice for the final 30+ seconds of a game while trailing by a goal. Morgan Frost took his last shift of the game with 30 minutes remaining, despite the Flyers only scoring 1 goal in the game (and desperately needing a goal in the 3rd period). Cam Atkinson only took one shift after the first period. Gotta make sure that you are able to give Ryan Poehling 19 minutes of ice time, I guess.

 

[Curufinwe]

Imagine thinking any other team owes you anything. Torts job is to win, he did what he thought put his team in the best position to win. I mean, that's what I want from a coach.

I want a coach who is smart enough to know that Hathaway is not the player to send out as an extra attacker with 3 minutes left needing a goal.

The Flyers are 69-71-24 under Torts, and the amount of praise he gets for coaching a team to the league's 26th best record over two seasons is baffling. They're not better than they were the previous two seasons.