Post-Game Talk: Flyers fans are rooting for us to win tonight 6:07 PM

[twabby]

Glad everyone is finally getting on board with 14 on the top line. I've been saying it since last season (where I was pushing to try and get him at the trade deadline).

I'm not against this idea at all, in fact I think it should be tried out for a few games before the playoffs start. As long as 92 and 8 are given 5-10 games at the end of this season to see if they gel.

But I really want to see 8-92-77, 65/90-19-14 again. Both of these lines were excellent to start the season. 8-92-77 had a 55% score adjusted Corsi and 63% of the goals in ~180 minutes of EV time, while 90-19-14 was a 61% score adjusted Corsi and 67% of the goals in ~90 minutes of EV time.

Granted, the samples aren't exceedingly large but with that dominance in possession and on the scoreboard you have to give it a shot one more time don't you? Especially since 8-19-77 are below 50% possession and have lacked chemistry for at least a month now.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If Trotz insists on keeping 8 and 19 together, why won't he play 14 there? He seems like a perfect linemate for everyone.

It makes even more sense when you consider how good 77 and 92 have been together.

That said, I still wonder if 92 and 8 would be together if Trotz wasn't worried about the optics of Backstrom being a positionally sound reponsible player and who was essentially demoted.

 

[strungout]

Ovie - Kuznetsov - Oshie
Burakovsky - Backstrom - Williams

Do it!

 

[g00n]

I'm not talking about selling out to use your extreme terms to try and make your point. I'm talking about playing a solid competent 60 mins of hockey. If you think the slow starts are exclusive to when the players started to (at some level) dial it back, I disagree.

And I never said they're "mailing it in"....I said I want consistency. You don't think it's pretty glaring that they've been average to bad in the 1st period almost all season?

I don't think the Caps needed to "sell out" or play the most extreme version of "Trotz hockey" to put up a better result than they did last night. Had they put in the effort and played solid, consistent, intelligent 2-way hockey, they beat the Pens....at worst they're at least not getting laughed off the ice.

Maybe I'm wrong but this is not how I remember it. I'm pretty sure they started giving up the first goal about the same time they started to visibly coast.

As tx said, when you have a system that's based on a certain type of play you can't substitute a different kind of play. Trotz's "jam" style of heavy hockey won't work if you aren't skating and forechecking hard, and finishing checks. And if you're coasing and trying to avoid injury, you're not doing much of that. At least not enough. And that simply puts you out of position without actually causing a turnover, or taking another man out of the play.

If they're going to play high level hockey without blocking shots and going all out etc, then they would have to play a different style, maybe with different line, and with different expectations of where to be, when, and what to do. Otherwise it won't work.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The slow starts have not been exclusive to them "coasting" after the ASG, not as I recall. Too lazy to research it. The bigger point is that it's been a problem for years, just not as glaring as this season. This core group turns it on when they feel like it and always have. They've often been outplayed and decided to turn in a good 3rd to pull out a win.

Nothing was said about substituting any kind of play. Give a better effort and play smarter hockey, in other words, act like you care to start the game instead of only in the 3rd when a loss is looming.

Stop getting hung up on shot blocking. Has zero to do with the discussion except to distract and suggest they can't play a good 2-way game without risking major injury...IMO that's simply not true.

 

[RandyHolt]

Lets be reality, when 21 guys see Ovi come out uninspired and unenthusiastic, why would anyone else bother that night? Bottom 6ers Oshie and Williams aside.

Ovi still drives this team, he generates the energy for the entire arena. The horn guy can only do so much.

 

[g00n]

The slow starts have not been exclusive to them "coasting" after the ASG, not as I recall. Too lazy to research it. The bigger point is that it's been a problem for years, just not as glaring as this season. This core group turns it on when they feel like it and always have. They've often been outplayed and decided to turn in a good 3rd to pull out a win.

Nothing was said about substituting any kind of play. Give a better effort and play smarter hockey, in other words, act like you care to start the game instead of only in the 3rd when a loss is looming.

Stop getting hung up on shot blocking. Has zero to do with the discussion except to distract and suggest they can't play a good 2-way game without risking major injury...IMO that's simply not true.

Pretty much disagree with every word of this and already explained why. Also check the stats I posted earlier regarding fast or slow starts from the last 2 years.

 

[Langway]

Lets be reality, when 21 guys see Ovi come out uninspired and unenthusiastic, why would anyone else bother that night? Bottom 6ers Oshie and Williams aside.

Ovi still drives this team, he generates the energy for the entire arena. The horn guy can only do so much.

Most definitely. As-is the backbone of the team is largely 2, 14, 27 and 92. They're the real MVPs.

There's a way in which this team can still be incredibly effective while not completely busting their ass from a work ethic standpoint and it's to be lethal with the puck in transition and in their possession game generally. They had an early 3-on-1 vs. PIT and didn't even get a shot off. That's not just work ethic right there it's also mental engagement and decision-making.

If you're going to allow your team to slack off then at least have their skill/possession game on point so that when they do actually have the puck they're effective with it. Aside from Kuznetsov putting up one of the best playmaking seasons in years, that hasn't been the case and that's to me the biggest cause for concern. It's unrealistic to expect their team defense or work ethic to be so dominant as to compensate for shoddy decision-making and general puck play. If you want killer instinct it stands to reason that's where it's going to need to start at.

RMNB sounds the alarm.

 

[Calicaps]

Throw in the towel!

 

[txpd]

exactly. Trotz game is to play heavy and fast and to be completely committed in the d zone and on the pk. that means throwing yourself at any puck that might be dangerous as the Caps did with regularity before they pulled out the ridiculous lead. I recall Oshie and Beagle in particular blocking multiple shots in pulled goalie time trying to hold a lead.

Wilson's game hurts him as well as the guy he hits. Playing heavy hurts. When the Caps are playing their game its hard on them.

 

[twabby]

I can't agree more with you guys about how A+ effort is not going to be given now, and as a result their game is going to suffer.

However, this doesn't explain away Trotz continuing to make questionable lineup decisions. Why not rest Ovechkin or Backstrom? Why not play Kuznetsov and Ovechkin together? Why not try Backstrom and Williams together? Why not re-unite Orlov and Schmidt?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

There's a way in which this team can still be incredibly effective while not completely busting their ass from a work ethic standpoint and it's to be lethal with the puck in transition and in their possession game generally. They had an early 3-on-1 vs. PIT and didn't even get a shot off. That's not just work ethic right there it's also mental engagement and decision-making.

Wilson, Chimera, and Johansson were the three, I believe. Chimera took the puck through the neutral zone. He's the absolute last forward on this team I'd want distributing the puck on a 3-on-1.

 

[Hivemind]

This loss was far more of a dumb decisionmaking loss than a lack of busting their *****. It doesn't matter how hard you try if you play stupid. They had defensive gaffe after defensive gaffe. They were repeatedly caught up ice (often because they overextended on the forecheck). They had terrible defensive zone turnovers all night long. They consistently made the incorrect play at the blueline, letting the Penguins attack the zone (not always the same incorrect play, but consistently incorrect ones). Overall, the situational awareness of this team was absolutely horrendous.

 

[Langway]

All of this talk about heavy and yet they let Brouwer and Ward go for smaller, lighter more skilled players. They also have a largely unheavy 2LW/2C/3C. Playing heavy is part of what gives them momentum and keeps pucks out of danger areas but without execution on top of that we'll likely see the same rambunctious defensive breakdowns and spirited but ineffective forechecking.

It's never all about work ethic. Being too pumped up can easily be counter-productive and IMO some of that was at play in their poor defensive positioning vs. PIT. They weren't ready to defend at that speed either and that might be the most crucial issue with dialing it down in the second half: they're not typically playing at a challenging pace so that their reads can adjust/evolve. Work ethic is one ingredient among many but assuming that just adding urgency will clean up their game is doubtful. Initially at the very least, depending on when it's added, they will have rust to burn off. The longer they wait the more they put off that period. Waiting until the playoffs come around to begin doing so puts a lot at risk.

 

[RandyHolt]

I hate the notion that you can always simply outwerk the other team. Coaches screaming just outwork 'em rings hollow. Moar werk? Yes me lord.

At some point, the players skills have to be the deciding factor for teams with high end skill, like us. Like Langway touched on, we upgraded our skill level, and I think significantly. Oshie and JW can hit and play heavy, but they can also do more than Troy and Ward could on the skills side.

I think BMac has done a good job building a tweener team that can play heavy or light, but our light game has been Jekyll and Hyde the past month.

 

[Raikkonen]

I think stats and chemistry from the start of the season is not relevant. Most teams were nothing like what we will see in playoffs.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

If Trotz insists on keeping 8 and 19 together, why won't he play 14 there? He seems like a perfect linemate for everyone.

I called it!

 

[txpd]

I can't agree more with you guys about how A+ effort is not going to be given now, and as a result their game is going to suffer.

However, this doesn't explain away Trotz continuing to make questionable lineup decisions. Why not rest Ovechkin or Backstrom? Why not play Kuznetsov and Ovechkin together? Why not try Backstrom and Williams together? Why not re-unite Orlov and Schmidt?

Guesses.

1. Resting Backstrom and Ovechkin puts a certain target on them come playoffs.
2. Maybe he will play Kuzy with Ov but as with before Backstrom and Ov are used differently than what Kuzy is.
3. Orlov and Schmidt will play together as soon as Carlson returns. You wont like it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Pretty much disagree with every word of this and already explained why. Also check the stats I posted earlier regarding fast or slow starts from the last 2 years.

Sweet you and TX have it all figured out I guess...not sure why you would only go back 2 years, the core has been together longer and this has been a problem before. Anyway moving on, you have your thoughts on it, I have mine.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I can't agree more with you guys about how A+ effort is not going to be given now, and as a result their game is going to suffer.

However, this doesn't explain away Trotz continuing to make questionable lineup decisions. Why not rest Ovechkin or Backstrom? Why not play Kuznetsov and Ovechkin together? Why not try Backstrom and Williams together? Why not re-unite Orlov and Schmidt?

When exactly did A+ effort start getting thrown around, the same time 105% effort by TX? I hoped for a better effort against the Pens....seems like some are accepting that being disinterested and half assing it is to be expected. I'm guessing Trotz has a higher standard.

 

[g00n]

Sweet you and TX have it all figured out I guess...not sure why you would only go back 2 years, the core has been together longer and this has been a problem before. Anyway moving on, you have your thoughts on it, I have mine.

2 years because we're talking about what the current coach can get out of this team, and it's not fair to him or the current roster (which has a lot of new faces compared to previous squads) to rely so much on old failures they had no part of.

Like I said before, Trotz managed to work through a lot of the typical sticking points in the past year plus, but this is probably a new one for him. We'll see if he can get a Prez Trophy quality team to not blow a first round match-up.

If we do have a rotten core that predates Trotz, this franchise has a big problem...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I've suggested the core might be a problem long ago...not what I want to think trust me. I thought Green and Semin were big parts of that core problem. Only a few guys left to point fingers at.

 

[Raikkonen]

Kuzy the Messiah

 

[txpd]

watched the sens game on tsn last night. they mentioned that kuzy was -4 v the pens. funny. I didn't see much talk if any about that here. lots of talk about who had a bad game and his -4 isn't mentioned.

 

[txpd]

When exactly did A+ effort start getting thrown around, the same time 105% effort by TX? I hoped for a better effort against the Pens....seems like some are accepting that being disinterested and half assing it is to be expected. I'm guessing Trotz has a higher standard.

Sounds like you are determined to be pissed. Sure, motivating a team with nothing to play for, this isn't even a a losing team with players playing for their jobs, is something you could be successful at for a short period of time to close out a season.

For the Caps this is 30 games or more. Where they still haven't lost 2 straight in regulation. Where they have maintained their standings lead.

Back to being willing to die for that inch. That is what hockey is about. Its particularly what Trotz hockey is about. These are smart guys most of them. You think they are going to die for an inch of nothing?

Maybe we will be more lucky next year and stay in the pack or no worse than withing striking distance of the pack so they have something to play for. Maybe next season there will at least be one team in the division that can keep up.