Flyers fan in peace, asking for clarity about Schenn trade

[Ruck Over]

Hello folks,

Come in peace, there are disagreements in the Flyers threads about the trade last off-season, and I would like your perspective, as to better frame the discussion for the Flyers fans' disagreements. There are liberties being taken from both the positive & negative camps concerning aspects of the deal. Assumptions that make discourse more difficult than it need be.
Ideally, your responses would be close to the feelings had at the time of the trade, but obviously more recent feelings are just as important to the discussion. I don't plan on responding to individual comments unless asked, I do not want to sway honest commentary.

A couple of yes/no type questions, plus a few value judgements.

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made?

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included?
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster?

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season?
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year?
If no, what did you expect?

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed?
If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)?
If no, what would you change (only to the draft-day deal, no speculation about future results)?

Thanks for your time and responses. This is not intended to be inflammatory. There are likely differing opinions in your fan-base as well. If inappropriate, mea culpa, please lock.

Cheers, the floor is yours.

Click to read more...

 

[Oberyn]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made? No, I think most of us were expecting it to be in the 20s.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included? I would not.
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera? 1st + decent prospect (someone like Blais).

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster? The difference between a 1st round pick and a decent prospect.

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season? Yes barring any injuries.
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead? n/a

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year? No.
If no, what did you expect? 50-60 points and bounced between center and wing.

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed? Yes.
If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)? Yes.
If no, what would you change (only to the draft-day deal, no speculation about future results)?

 

[ort]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made?

I did not.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included?
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?

Heck no. Maybe downgrade one of the picks to a 2nd or 3rd? Schenn for a 1st and 2nd. Or a 1st and someone like Berglund, since we would have had to send salary back. Removing Lehtera was almost as big of a deal to us as adding Schenn.

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster?
A 2nd round pick? I would have traded a 2nd rounder and Lehtera for a 7th rounder (AKA nothing) if I was GM.

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season?
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?

No. Some other center would have had to be acquired. We needed a non-Lehtera center desperately.

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year?
If no, what did you expect?

No, he over-performed. I expected a typical Schenn level of performance.

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed?

Yes.

If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)?

Yes, I think so. But losing a 14th overall definitely hurts.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made? No. No reason to think this team wouldn't make playoffs and therefore have a pick outside of the playoff team range.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included? Yes. In my viewing, the Blues traded a second round pick, Ryan Reaves, +/- 20 games of Paul Stastny and trading down from 14 to 29 in 2018 to acquire three years of Schenn.

If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera? I would make same trade again.

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster? Cap flexibility

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season? Yes, if not moved.
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year? Closer to 60 points.
If no, what did you expect? Same as above

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed? Yes
If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)? Yes
If no, what would you change (only to the draft-day deal, no speculation about future results)? N/A

 

[Brian39]

I have basically identical feelings as every answer given by Oberyn, so I don't think it is necessary for me to go through each answer in detail. I would absolutely do the trade again, but would have liked to protect any top 15 pick with the benefit of hindsight. That wouldn't be a deal breaker to me, but I would have been willing to include another middle-later round pick (in addition to the conditional 3rd) in order to defer the second 1st rounder to 2019 since we missed the playoffs.

While it stings to not have a 1st when it would have been #14, it certainly isn't the end of the world. If protecting the #14 would have caused the deal to fall apart, I would absolutely make the trade again (as constructed). This is one of the most win-win trades I've seen in a long time, as the value of Lehtera's cap space meant way more to us than it does for you guys and Schenn is more valuable to our roster (as constructed) than yours.

 

[bluesXwinXtheXcup]

No one expected it to be a 14th pick. No one.

We didn't expect to get the level of production from Schenn that we got. I expected points in the 50s. Lehtera leaving with any of his contract being eaten by us was worth a 2nd draft pick IMO. Lehtera hurt our line up because he was paired with Tarasenko too often. With Berglund, Brodziak, Sobotka, and yes even Sundqvist we are better than with Lehtera. But, yes he would have played 62 games had he not been traded.

All said, one of Armstrong's best trades...to date (he might pull so more magic OR the 14th pick will be the next coming of McJesus.)

 

[Majorityof1]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made?
Nope. Figured it would be low to mid-20s.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included?
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?
Maybe. I would have felt is was an overpay, but I have always liked Schenn. Ideally, it would have been a 1st + B prospect + maybe a late pick.

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster?
We talked about having to give up a 1st for him. I thought that was a little high. Definitely more than a 2nd but less than our 27th pick. 2nd and 3rd maybe.

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season?
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?
God I hope not. Had we not gotten Schenn, Stasnty wouldn't have been traded and Barbashev probably would have had more leash to play in the Top 6. Sobotka would have played a lot more C.

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year?
If no, what did you expect?
55-60-ish, but on the 2RW.

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed?
If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)?
If no, what would you change (only to the draft-day deal, no speculation about future results)?
Yea, I do it again even given the ultimate higher than anticipated value of our picks. I thought we got a great deal at draft day then. Schenn exceeded expectations, so the pick value just evens thing up a bit more.

 

[bluetuned]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made?

I figured it would be in the low-mid 20s.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included?
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?

No, I would have said something like a 1st and a 2nd or 3rd round pick, or a sub-Thomas or Kyrou prospect.

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster?

Bumping the second piece of the deal up to a 1st.

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season?

Probably.

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year?
If no, what did you expect?

I figured he'd be closer to a 50 point player, and I didn't think he'd fit so naturally at Center with Schwartz.

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed?

Yes.

If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)?

Yeah. The Blues would have been just brutal without Schenn. The 2018 1st ending up in the teens gives me a little pause, but not enough to pass on the deal overall. Schenn was huge for us.

 

[67Blues]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made? No, no one expected Allen to absolutely crap the bed and the Blues playing golf in April.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included? Nope. It would have been a B-prospect like Barbashev.
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster? Since we took no salary back, the normal would have been a second and maybe an AHL level talent to fill that roster who has no shot of making the NHL coming back

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season? No. He would have been buried or pressboxed. Barbshev, Brodziak, Berglund and Stastny were all better than him.
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year? Expected 50-60 pts from him given a healthy Schwartz and a normal scoring Tarasenko. If Tarasenko had a normal year, Schenn probably would have been at a point per game or more.
If no, what did you expect?

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed? Ambivalent. It was a good trade at the time for both teams and made sense.
If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)?
If no, what would you change (only to the draft-day deal, no speculation about future results)?

 

[Xerloris]

Hello folks,

Come in peace, there are disagreements in the Flyers threads about the trade last off-season, and I would like your perspective, as to better frame the discussion for the Flyers fans' disagreements. There are liberties being taken from both the positive & negative camps concerning aspects of the deal. Assumptions that make discourse more difficult than it need be.
Ideally, your responses would be close to the feelings had at the time of the trade, but obviously more recent feelings are just as important to the discussion. I don't plan on responding to individual comments unless asked, I do not want to sway honest commentary.

A couple of yes/no type questions, plus a few value judgements.

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade was made? No.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included? No.
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster? The 2nd 1st rd pick.

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season? Don't know and don't care.
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year? I expected 60~ points.
If no, what did you expect?

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed? Yes
If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)? Yes
If no, what would you change (only to the draft-day deal, no speculation about future results)?

Thanks for your time and responses. This is not intended to be inflammatory. There are likely differing opinions in your fan-base as well. If inappropriate, mea culpa, please lock.

Cheers, the floor is yours.

 

[Bluesguru]

Did any of you expect the second 1st rd pick to be as high as #14 when the trade ws made?
Didn't give it much thought. Even at #14, that was a trade the Blues had to make.

Would you have traded the two 1sts for Schenn if Lehtera was not included?
If no (excluding cap implications), what would a fair trade looked like to you without Lehtera?
I was shocked Hextall didn't ask for a good prospect to be included in deal. Personally, I think Schenn for 2 first round picks was a fair trade as is. The fact that Hextall was taking on Lehtera means Hextall was entitled to ask for more. Whether it was an additional 2nd rd pick or a quality prospect of some kind. Hextall had the leverage. Armstrong would of been a fool to call the deal off if Hextall pushed for a little more. The Blues were hurting at forward bad before the Schenn deal...……..to me, Hextall sold himself short on the deal.

What was the (surrendered trade) value of removing Lehtera from your roster?
Lehtera was a disappointment. 23 points in his first 25 games as a Blue and it was down hill since. Though, his playoff performance here was pretty good.

Do you believe Lehtera would have played 62 games for the Blues this past season?
If no, what reasonable alternatives would likely have been used instead?
If we were stuck with him? Yes, he'd of played over 70 games plus if healthy.

Did you expect to receive the level-of-production from Schenn this year?
If no, what did you expect?
We didn't know how good he really was. Everyone thought he was more of a PP specialist and was irresponsible at 5 on 5. He was fantastic this year. A winner and a leader.

Are you happy with the trade as it was constructed?
As said earlier, even before we saw him play for us, trading 2 number 1's for Schenn was worth the price. Hextall was the one who sold short.

If yes, would you do it again (all things remaining the same)?
Absolutely. I don't think Hextall would though. I think from Hextall's point of view, it should of been 2 number 1's for Schenn, and then let's talk the price on taking Lehtera off your hands. Hextall messed up.