Flint - Another Ownership-Coaching Problem

[Mightygoose]

Do you guys think that the OHL can perform an act of eminent domain and take control of the Firebirds and offer them to whomever would be interested in taking them in, like Cornwall or Belleville?

I mean, it's not even the first season that's finished for this team, and this franchise has had more outside (re: American) news about anything from the CHL's 3 leagues in the past few years, and none of it is good. 2 mass coach firings (basically around nepotism) in one season, and a player walkout. How can you defend that?

Apparently Mr. Nilson paid 8 million for the Whalers, so if the league wants him out that badly, they can buy him out. That would be under 500K per owner give or take.

If they don't have a short term option, I wouldn't put it past the league to shut down the franchise, go with 19 teams for 1 year, start an expansion process and hopefully take their time to get it right....and hopefully multiple bidders along the way and the owners get a decent ROI!

 

[digiblader]

Apparently Mr. Nilson paid 8 million for the Whalers, so if the league wants him out that badly, they can buy him out. That would be under 500K per owner give or take.

If they don't have a short term option, I wouldn't put it past the league to shut down the franchise, go with 19 teams for 1 year, start an expansion process and hopefully take their time to get it right....and hopefully multiple bidders along the way and the owners get a decent ROI!

Can't be done--the league can't manage with just 19 teams. It would screw up the league and the playoff system.. either this situation gets fixed in Flint or the team relocates.

 

[Otto]

Apparently Mr. Nilson paid 8 million for the Whalers, so if the league wants him out that badly, they can buy him out. That would be under 500K per owner give or take.

If they don't have a short term option, I wouldn't put it past the league to shut down the franchise, go with 19 teams for 1 year, start an expansion process and hopefully take their time to get it right....and hopefully multiple bidders along the way and the owners get a decent ROI!

I'd be willing to bet the league is actively looking for a buyer behind closed doors right now. There won't be any need to shut the team down for a season.

My hope is that they remain in Flint, but if Nilsen won't let them play in his arena, they will end up somewhere else, guaranteed

 

[Mightygoose]

Can't be done--the league can't manage with just 19 teams. It would screw up the league and the playoff system.. either this situation gets fixed in Flint or the team relocates.

It would be far from ideal but the league has gone with an uneven number of teams for 2 seasons (95-96 and 96-97) saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if they're vetting ownership groups behind the scenes if Flint can't be salvaged

 

[FireBird71]

Wether or not he owns the team,he'd be stupid to kick them out because I don't think there's enough events going on there to be profitable without a hockey team. Can't have Comedy shows several times a week and not sure the different gun/boat shows/circus will keep them going.

 

[Captain Crash]

With all the money they dumped into the Gretzky complex over the last 5-6 years the City of Brantford does not have money to build a new arena. They just finished off the Jr B arena maybe 4 years ago and that cost a pretty penny. It would take IMO 15 years before the city can even think about building a new one unless someone flips the bill on the arena.

If 10 years ago Brantford decided to invest in a bigger arena which they should have then yeah, I'd say Brantford should get a team. Not to mention I'd love to have another team close by.
But they will not build a new arena anytime soon.

Plus, we will see what happens. I imagine Branch will listens to offers on the team and we may see this team somewhere we never even mentioned.

By no means did I say or imply that Brantford would be building a new arena. I was simply noting that it would work as a market if they would.

 

[EvenSteven]

Can't be done--the league can't manage with just 19 teams. It would screw up the league and the playoff system.. either this situation gets fixed in Flint or the team relocates.

I think it can easily be done. IMO, it isn't ideal, but if the franchise is revoked from the owner and the owner doesn't allow a new ownership group to allow the team to play out of his arena, then they'd have to look for another market. If they cannot find an ownership group in time to run the team going into next season, the franchise can be shut down for one year. It wouldn't be ideal and would likely be the absolute last resort.

The league could easily manage for one year with 19 teams. just have a 9 team western conference with scheduling such that all 19 teams play a 68 games schedule. Just have extra games vs close rivals, etc.

Come playoff time, you just go with the current format. top 8 tams in the conference and proceed from there.

This wouldn't screw up the league or it's playoff system.

 

[Otto]

I think it can easily be done. IMO, it isn't ideal, but if the franchise is revoked from the owner and the owner doesn't allow a new ownership group to allow the team to play out of his arena, then they'd have to look for another market. If they cannot find an ownership group in time to run the team going into next season, the franchise can be shut down for one year. It wouldn't be ideal and would likely be the absolute last resort.

The league could easily manage for one year with 19 teams. just have a 9 team western conference with scheduling such that all 19 teams play a 68 games schedule. Just have extra games vs close rivals, etc.

Come playoff time, you just go with the current format. top 8 tams in the conference and proceed from there.

This wouldn't screw up the league or it's playoff system.

And what do you do with the players?

 

[EvenSteven]

And what do you do with the players?

As I said it wouldn't be ideal and would be a last resort.

You do a dispersal draft of the 2016-17 returning players (under the circumstances, name the player who would balk at moving to another team)

They would not take part in the 2016 OHL draft.

Then, when the franchise is ready to be up and running in 2017-18 under new ownership either in Flint or another location, you do an expansion type draft.

As far as draft picks go, where ever they are scheduled to pick for the 2016 draft, I'd just move those slots up to the 2017 draft. In other words, Flint currently holds two of the top five selections for the 2016 draft. They would then own two of the top five picks of the 2017 draft etc etc.

Any picks they've acquired or dealt away in trades in drafts after the 2016 draft year would still be recognized as assets.

 

[OTownApologist]

As I said it wouldn't be ideal and would be a last resort.

You do a dispersal draft of the 2016-17 returning players (under the circumstances, name the player who would balk at moving to another team)

They would not take part in the 2016 OHL draft.

Then, when the franchise is ready to be up and running in 2017-18 under new ownership either in Flint or another location, you do an expansion type draft.

As far as draft picks go, where ever they are scheduled to pick for the 2016 draft, I'd just move those slots up to the 2017 draft. In other words, Flint currently holds two of the top five selections for the 2016 draft. They would then own two of the top five picks of the 2017 draft etc etc.

Any picks they've acquired or dealt away in trades in drafts after the 2016 draft year would still be recognized as assets.

That is the biggest logistical nightmare of all time. Not a chance any of that happens, nor should it.

 

[EvenSteven]

That is the biggest logistical nightmare of all time. Not a chance any of that happens, nor should it.

No it shouldn't. As I said, a last resort.

But what happens if the league is faced with going with Nilson as an owner because they don't have another solid ownership group come forward to takeover and relocate the team?

I suppose the league could assume ownership temporarily and move the team somewhere for a year while searching for an owner to take over for the 2017-18 season. The logistics of having to do that and then maybe move again once a new owner comes forward isn't the greatest either. They can rename the team the Vagabonds,

 

[Whalers Fan]

No it shouldn't. As I said, a last resort.

But what happens if the league is faced with going with Nilson as an owner because they don't have another solid ownership group come forward to takeover and relocate the team?

I suppose the league could assume ownership temporarily and move the team somewhere for a year while searching for an owner to take over for the 2017-18 season. The logistics of having to do that and then maybe move again once a new owner comes forward isn't the greatest either. They can rename the team the Vagabonds,

While hanging out at the pub last night, one of our extended family stated she had heard a rumor of the team potentially playing at Joe Louis Arena. It could work on a temporary basis for a season if the league took over the team until new ownership was found. I had not heard this, but I was also out of the country all last week with no Internet access, so I heard zero local news during that time. So take this as just a wild rumor unless anyone else has heard it.

 

[FireBird71]

While hanging out at the pub last night, one of our extended family stated she had heard a rumor of the team potentially playing at Joe Louis Arena. It could work on a temporary basis for a season if the league took over the team until new ownership was found. I had not heard this, but I was also out of the country all last week with no Internet access, so I heard zero local news during that time. So take this as just a wild rumor unless anyone else has heard it.

I think that's someone's wishful thinking

 

[Otto]

No it shouldn't. As I said, a last resort.

But what happens if the league is faced with going with Nilson as an owner because they don't have another solid ownership group come forward to takeover and relocate the team?

I suppose the league could assume ownership temporarily and move the team somewhere for a year while searching for an owner to take over for the 2017-18 season. The logistics of having to do that and then maybe move again once a new owner comes forward isn't the greatest either. They can rename the team the Vagabonds,

Dispersal draft would never happen, you end up upsetting 19 other apple carts for next season, then again when you have an expansion draft. In a league that is cyclical this would throw every team off their plan.

As I said, guaranteed that the league is actively seeking new ownership for the Firebirds now, and is no doubt working with Nilsen about having the team play at the Dort. Worst case scenario perhaps they could play out of Saginaw under league management or as previously suggested Joe Louis Arena

 

[jprenkert]

I could see Illitch maybe taking a run at the franchise. When Karmanos first owned them, they played out of the Joe. There have been rumors of the Wings Franchise wanting to host the world juniors after the new arena is built. Plus with the new arena, he might want another little toy to tinker with and keep people in that area when the wings aren't playing.

 

[EvenSteven]

As I said, an absolute last resort. I'm sure the league would run it for a year in another market first but to make the transition from this year to final destination as smooth as possible. Meaning, you don't put them in, say, Belleville next year for a year then to yet a third market in three years.

The OHL is in favor of the least amount of trades possible for reasons such as schooling, etc, hence the 30 card rule. To have a franchise play in 3 different markets in 3 years is not an ideal situation.

Here's hoping if the league does revoke the franchise and it has to be moved, it moves to a permanent market right away.

 

[Whalers Fan]

I could see Illitch maybe taking a run at the franchise. When Karmanos first owned them, they played out of the Joe. There have been rumors of the Wings Franchise wanting to host the world juniors after the new arena is built. Plus with the new arena, he might want another little toy to tinker with and keep people in that area when the wings aren't playing.

Illitch could certainly afford the franchise -- he could pay for it just with the loose change found in his sofa. The question is whether he would want to be bothered with something this "small potatoes" in comparison to the other assets in the family empire. It would be sort of like Donald Trump buying a "fixer upper" home for $30,000 to flip at $60,000.

If this did happen, though, the team could be called the Junior Red Wings again!

 

[Mightygoose]

Illitch could certainly afford the franchise -- he could pay for it just with the loose change found in his sofa. The question is whether he would want to be bothered with something this "small potatoes" in comparison to the other assets in the family empire. It would be sort of like Donald Trump buying a "fixer upper" home for $30,000 to flip at $60,000.

If this did happen, though, the team could be called the Junior Red Wings again!

I think the Illitch family buying the team is the closest to a in-state solution there will be.

He can follow the Calgary and Edmonton model having the CHL and NHL under one umbrella. One year at the Joe and then move to the new arena.

With Peter K out of the picture - I've always understood they were at odds with each other would be good to see the Jr. Red Wings rise again...plus the Alumni would be on board...a double plus

 

[Savard18]

They were struggling to draw in Plymouth, I can't see them doing any better in Detroit. The only difference would be the 14,000 additional empty seats. Detroit's a bit like Toronto in the respect that only the NHL club gets any love. UofM nearby, the NTDP isn't drawing well yet, Wayne State couldn't get going (I don't know much info about the why's though), I never once actually PAID to see the Vipers. Did anyone? I'd think Illitch is smart enough to see it as a high risk, low reward scenario. I guess it could put some people in the building to offset the costs when the Wings are away. I'm not ruling anything out at this point and if Illitch wants to piss Karmanos off, this might do it. Instead of throwing Nilsen and Kharin outta the club (why and how were they in anyway?), just get some of the alums together and buy the Firebirds from them. If they do end up in the D at least I'd get to see them more often than Belleville or Cornwall. I hope Nilsen and Papista (what the hell has he been doing through all this?) realize that the building doesn't profit without hockey and the only league that might give him a team is the FHL. Good luck trying to put fans in the seats for that after getting to watch the OHL.

 

[FireBird71]

I could see Illitch maybe taking a run at the franchise. When Karmanos first owned them, they played out of the Joe. There have been rumors of the Wings Franchise wanting to host the world juniors after the new arena is built. Plus with the new arena, he might want another little toy to tinker with and keep people in that area when the wings aren't playing.

Pistons will eventually fill that void

 

[Whalers Fan]

Pistons will eventually fill that void

I still find that hard to believe as long as the Pistons own The Palace. It's a fine arena, even if the location is not the best to draw fans from the entire region. Paying rent downtown when you already own an arena doesn't make sense.

With Peter K out of the picture - I've always understood they were at odds with each other would be good to see the Jr. Red Wings rise again...plus the Alumni would be on board...a double plus

I think that animosity subsided in the past few years. Karmanos even opened up his arena for the Red Wings for some practices and exhibitions after the last lockout ended and JLA was unavailable before the season restart (we went to one of the open practices). I doubt that would have any affect one way or another on Illitch buying the Firebirds, anyway.

I do agree that moving the team back to the Detroit area could lead to a struggle to draw fans again. The team never drew well in their first stint in downtown Detroit, and struggled in suburban Plymouth, too. Minor sports are a difficult sell to people in this area with all the major sports options available. They may do well for the first couple of seasons in the new arena, as people could get a chance to see a game for a more affordable price in the new digs than the outrageous prices Red Wings tickets will be going for. But it will be difficult to sustain that once the novelty of the new arena wears off.

 

[FireBird71]

I still find that hard to believe as long as the Pistons own The Palace. It's a fine arena, even if the location is not the best to draw fans from the entire region. Paying rent downtown when you already own an arena doesn't make sense.



I think that animosity subsided in the past few years. Karmanos even opened up his arena for the Red Wings for some practices and exhibitions after the last lockout ended and JLA was unavailable before the season restart (we went to one of the open practices). I doubt that would have any affect one way or another on Illitch buying the Firebirds, anyway.

I do agree that moving the team back to the Detroit area could lead to a struggle to draw fans again. The team never drew well in their first stint in downtown Detroit, and struggled in suburban Plymouth, too. Minor sports are a difficult sell to people in this area with all the major sports options available. They may do well for the first couple of seasons in the new arena, as people could get a chance to see a game for a more affordable price in the new digs than the outrageous prices Red Wings tickets will be going for. But it will be difficult to sustain that once the novelty of the new arena wears off.

Less seats in the new arena..prices will go up before they go down

 

[FireBird71]

I think the Illitch family buying the team is the closest to a in-state solution there will be.

He can follow the Calgary and Edmonton model having the CHL and NHL under one umbrella. One year at the Joe and then move to the new arena.

With Peter K out of the picture - I've always understood they were at odds with each other would be good to see the Jr. Red Wings rise again...plus the Alumni would be on board...a double plus

I think there's a better chance of Flint area native Tom Gores buying the FireBirds than the Iilitch family.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Less seats in the new arena..prices will go up before they go down

Not sure which team's prices you are referring to. If it's the Wings, yes, prices will definitely be going up. The team has told season ticket holders to expect prices to be about double the current price within 2-3 years.

If you are referring to the Pistons, I do not agree. That team is the poor step-child of major league teams in this area, and only draw well when they have a championship-contending team. They may get a few more spectators if they move downtown due to the location, but if they are not contending they will still have issues filling an arena with a couple of thousand fewer capacity. The Palace has looked like an empty tomb for the past several years.

 

[FireBird71]

Was referring to the Red Wings but if the Pistons were to move downtown that will increase their attendance immensely. Have quite a few friends who are season ticket holders who would rather have the team downtown because they hate makng that drive to Auburn Hills. They've told me on several occasions that if the Pistons moved downtown that their season tickets sales would increase a ton.Just a matter of time until the Pistons are winning multiple rounds of playoff games again.