Confirmed with Link: Flames sign Lance Bouma to 3-year, $2.2M AAV contract

[Lunatik]

Thanks for your reply, I got what I needed for this topic and for all your future posts. Cheers!

Sassy!

 

[InfinityIggy]

Thanks for your reply, I got what I needed for this topic and for all your future posts. Cheers!

It's gonna be pretty funny when Bouma plays up to his contract this year. I have every confidence he is capable of 30 points.

 

[Lunatik]

It's gonna be pretty funny when Bouma plays up to his contract this year. I have every confidence he is capable of 30 points.

I don't think he will get 30 points, but I think he is worth this contract even if he doesn't.

 

[Anglesmith]

I don't think he will get 30 points, but I think he is worth this contract even if he doesn't.

That's how I feel, though I would not be as surprised as the advanced stats community if he repeats his offensive output.

 

[Lunatik]

That's how I feel, though I would not be as surprised as the advanced stats community if he repeats his offensive output.

If someone gave me an advanced stats sheet I wouldn't even use that trash as a TP substitute.

 

[Anglesmith]

If someone gave me an advanced stats sheet I wouldn't even use that trash as a TP substitute.

Well of course not. Printer paper is extremely abrasive and nowhere near as absorbent compared to conventional toilet paper.

 

[Lunatik]

Well of course not. Printer paper is extremely abrasive and nowhere near as absorbent compared to conventional toilet paper.

I'd rather use a porcupine

 

[Fig]

If someone gave me an advanced stats sheet I wouldn't even use that trash as a TP substitute.

Lucky stat sheet then. If you were the sheet, how would you feel about the possibility of being covered in crap twice?

 

[Anglesmith]

Lucky stat sheet then. If you were the sheet, how would you feel about the possibility of being covered in crap twice?

 

[Lunatik]

Lucky stat sheet then. If you were the sheet, how would you feel about the possibility of being covered in crap twice?

Same way anyone traded to the Oilers feels I am sure.

 

[StreakingRed]

Thanks for your reply, I got what I needed for this topic and for all your future posts. Cheers!

 

[Dertell]

First of all, I am not sure what the bolded means. Could you clarify? I assume it's a typo or something.

Secondly, a certain portion of fans see one thing with Byron (comedy, usually) while another portion sees a guy who is our best PKer by just about every metric over the last three years (shot suppression, ratio of SHG to PPG while he's on the ice), and whose ability to finish last year was unsustainably bad while he seemed to create more chances than most players in our lineup per 60 minutes. Let's not lump all fan opinion together. An appeal to majority is no better than an appeal to authority.

Poorly written. Who I referred by "them" are a huge chunk of flames fans. Read it as "Hartley and Treliving obviously liking Backlund a bunch (2nd line and tough minutes right when he's back from injury, 3-years extension right when the off-season started) doesn't stop [the fans] from hating his guts". Fair enough about the "appeal to majority" part.

For all this hatred of statistics, how many of you thought "even if he doesn't score nowhere near 30 points he's still worth 2.2M" for his intangible before last year? The number must be near zero, like Ferland right now (or many fourth liner and AHLers out there). This was never a tangible vs intangible debate but "your stats vs my stats".

Thanks for your reply, I got what I needed for this topic and for all your future posts. Cheers!

Whatever.

 

[Anglesmith]

Poorly written. Who I referred by "them" are a huge chunk of flames fans. Read it as "Hartley and Treliving obviously liking Backlund a bunch (2nd line and tough minutes right when he's back from injury, 3-years extension right when the off-season started) doesn't stop [the fans] from hating his guts". Fair enough about the "appeal to majority" part.

For all this hatred of statistics, how many of you thought "even if he doesn't score nowhere near 30 points he's still worth 2.2M" for his intangible before last year? The number must be near zero, like Ferland right now (or many fourth liner and AHLers out there). This was never a tangible vs intangible debate but "your stats vs my stats".

Well, I don't know if that's really a fair question, simply because contract talk never really started until this off-season. Before last season, there were many people who definitely appreciated Bouma's game. Without evidence to back it up, I can assure you that there were plenty of people who were big fans of his after his 15-point 2013-14 season. What did they think his value was? Well, I'm not sure they thought about it in those terms, rather than just hoping we kept him around (ie that they would be willing to pay him market value).

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Pinder brought up an interesting point this morning. If we would have signed Bouma long term last year, maybe we could have got him at 3-4 years at around 1.2-1.5 (he was making 750k)? Instead, we told him to go out and prove it, and he arguably played to his potential this year and got the max type of deal he could have expected based on the type of player he is.

Well, do we learn a lesson from this with Ferland? Pinder thinks that Ferland can score 20 goals in the NHL. While I don't think he gets there next season (he likely scores about 12-15), I don't disagree that he has that upside in him as he has an excellent shot. Maybe we lock Ferland up now to a 4 year deal, at 1.5 million per. If Ferland goes out and plays to his potential next year as well, he may be demanding 2.5 million per, very similar to Bouma. Then we have to make some really hard decisions.

 

[Lunatik]

Pinder brought up an interesting point this morning. If we would have signed Bouma long term last year, maybe we could have got him at 3-4 years at around 1.2-1.5 (he was making 750k)? Instead, we told him to go out and prove it, and he arguably played to his potential this year and got the max type of deal he could have expected based on the type of player he is.

Well, do we learn a lesson from this with Ferland? Pinder thinks that Ferland can score 20 goals in the NHL. While I don't think he gets there next season (he likely scores about 12-15), I don't disagree that he has that upside in him as he has an excellent shot. Maybe we lock Ferland up now to a 4 year deal, at 1.5 million per. If Ferland goes out and plays to his potential next year as well, he may be demanding 2.5 million per, very similar to Bouma. Then we have to make some really hard decisions.

Ferland has a grand total of 15 professional goals at the age of 23. Why would anyone think he could be a 20 goal scorer in the NHL? It boggles my mind how people forget how mediocre he has been in his pro career just because of a good playoffs.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Ferland has a grand total of 15 professional goals at the age of 23. Why would anyone think he could be a 20 goal scorer in the NHL? It boggles my mind how people forget how mediocre he has been in his pro career just because of a good playoffs.

The only thing I'll say is that he started playing hockey later. I think he is a guy that has a rare development curve in that he is still developing aspects of his game that most guys are fine tuning at an earlier age. I'm not predicting that he's going to be an an annual 20 goal scorer, but I will admit that given his all around skillset, it's not impossible either.

If he ends up as a bottom 6 banger, that brings a ton of energy to your lineup and scores 10 goals a year, are you fine with paying him 1.5 million? I am. But all of the sudden if he starts producing around 15-20 goals a year and you have him locked up long term, well now you have him at a discount.

 

[Lunatik]

The only thing I'll say is that he started playing hockey later. I think he is a guy that has a rare development curve in that he is still developing aspects of his game that most guys are fine tuning at an earlier age. I'm not predicting that he's going to be an an annual 20 goal scorer, but I will admit that given his all around skillset, it's not impossible either.

If he ends up as a bottom 6 banger, that brings a ton of energy to your lineup and scores 10 goals a year, are you fine with paying him 1.5 million? I am. But all of the sudden if he starts producing around 15-20 goals a year and you have him locked up long term, well now you have him at a discount.

Given his resume at the moment giving him 1.5 at this point in time would be a HUGE mistake. He's done nothing at all to earn it and that sends a terrible message to everyone else. He needs a 1 year show me deal like Jooris but has hasn't earned a penny more than 700k.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Given his resume at the moment giving him 1.5 at this point in time would be a HUGE mistake. He's done nothing at all to earn it and that sends a terrible message to everyone else. He needs a 1 year show me deal like Jooris but has hasn't earned a penny more than 700k.

That's what Pinder acknowledged and that it's the nature of the business. But had Treliving done that with Bouma last season (signing him long term) well he would be looking like a genius right now (for the record I wanted Bouma to sign a "show me deal"). I don't disagree at all, it is not wrong to ask him to prove it. But if he does, it will likely cost someone a spot on our roster for cap reasons.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I'm with classroom, Ferland hasn't shown squat at the NHL level. He's not even at a "show me" level, it's more of a "can you stick in the NHL" level.

I do agree that hindsight is 20/20 and a three year deal for Bouma at $1.5 would've been fantastic last off-season.

 

[Anglesmith]

Yeah, Ferland hasn't proven anything other than the fact that he can really get d-men off their game over time, and injure himself in the process.

I am very interested to see if he can stick with the team after camp.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I also am sheepish regarding Ferland. I think he still has to make the team out of camp, that he isn't a lock for an NHL spot at all at this point.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I would be thrilled if we get the same Ferkland that showed up in the Vancouver series in training camp / regular season, even if it means he's going to get paid.

 

[Lunatik]

That's what Pinder acknowledged and that it's the nature of the business. But had Treliving done that with Bouma last season (signing him long term) well he would be looking like a genius right now (for the record I wanted Bouma to sign a "show me deal"). I don't disagree at all, it is not wrong to ask him to prove it. But if he does, it will likely cost someone a spot on our roster for cap reasons.

it's the nature of the business when they earn it. Bouma had over a full NHL season under his belt and 2 seasons (excluding the season he played only 3 games due to injury) in the AHL. 95 games in Abbotsford + 121 in the NHL for Bouma before his show me deal is a far cry from Ferland's 64 AHL games and 35 NHL games (incl. playoffs).

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

it's the nature of the business when they earn it. Bouma had over a full NHL season under his belt and 2 seasons (excluding the season he played only 3 games due to injury) in the AHL. 95 games in Abbotsford + 121 in the NHL for Bouma before his show me deal is a far cry from Ferland's 64 AHL games and 35 NHL games (incl. playoffs).

I don't disagree with anything you or others are saying, I just think Pinder had an interesting point. If management is really high on a guy and they forecast that he could get paid 'X' amount in a year or 2, well you have to at least consider anyway that you could get him at a discount.

But I agree, I think it's very probable that he gets a 1-year deal.

 

[slappipappi]

Pinder brought up an interesting point this morning. If we would have signed Bouma long term last year, maybe we could have got him at 3-4 years at around 1.2-1.5 (he was making 750k)? Instead, we told him to go out and prove it, and he arguably played to his potential this year and got the max type of deal he could have expected based on the type of player he is.

Well, do we learn a lesson from this with Ferland? Pinder thinks that Ferland can score 20 goals in the NHL. While I don't think he gets there next season (he likely scores about 12-15), I don't disagree that he has that upside in him as he has an excellent shot. Maybe we lock Ferland up now to a 4 year deal, at 1.5 million per. If Ferland goes out and plays to his potential next year as well, he may be demanding 2.5 million per, very similar to Bouma. Then we have to make some really hard decisions.

So, you you sign all of these types of guys to 4 years deal with cheap money?

Saying that Bouma could have signed cheaply is hindsight.

Shold we give Jooris a 4 year deal?