Confirmed with Link: Flames sign Backlund 6 years x 5.35M

[crackdown44]

I always look at the Stan Bowman approach that kept the Blackhawks powerful for damn near 10 seasons. It was finally when he went away from this philosophy, that things crumbled around him.

Have your main core:
Your top 3 centres, your two elite wingers, your 1 elite Dman, your two top 4 all-purpose Dmen and your stable goalie.

From that core, add in youth on ELC's. Make sure to get all 3 years of ELC, and at least 2 years of bridge. Once the bridge is up, decide if the player is good enough to replace one of that core piece. If not, trade this player to return a younger player with good upside. Do not give good money to anyone outside those 10 players. Sign great vets who want to win cups.

Calgary has the best cap management in the league. We're able to afford every player we have and have some space. I mentioned it yesterday, we could add a 5 million dollar winger for next season and not skip a beat.

I agree with you, you buy out the likes of Brouwer and trade the likes of Stone before you move upcoming youth that have value.

Basically this. I just don’t want him going out and giving term and money to a FA winger that might be a question mark like Brouwer. I think he’s learned from that though and if he targets a winger it would be through trade and a player with 2-3 years tops left on a reasonable deal

 

[Mobiandi]

I mentioned it yesterday, we could add a 5 million dollar winger for next season and not skip a beat.

Man remember the Sutter days when all we would do is acquire good wingers to make up for our lack of centre depth: Cammalleri, Borque, Huselius, Tanguay, Amonte, Nolan, Glencross, Bertuzzi.

Now we finally have our centres locked down, and all we need is that one winger to push us over the top.

 

[Baxterman]

That's the Darryl Sutter mentality of running things and one of the reasons why he'll never be a GM in this league again. You don't improve your team by getting rid of actually good players, you're just shifting around talent, weakening one area while strengthening another. It's all lateral. The goal is or should be to improve on what's already there.

With the cap going up to 80M or thereabouts, the Flames have the space to not only re-sign their key players but also add a roughly 6M scoring winger (assuming they could find one). Brouwer's probably going to be bought anyway this summer or next. A year from now, Stone with one year left at 3.5M is absolutely moveable; teams are always looking for defensive depth and the fact that he's a RHS helps.

The Sutter mentality that built the best teams we have had in awhile and much more success than we have experienced outside the Cup win?

The problem with adding to what you have is that we don't have space to add to it. We are pretty much stuck with what we have plus adding a few (likely bad) secondary pieces.

 

[Baxterman]

Calgary has the best cap management in the league. We're able to afford every player we have and have some space. I mentioned it yesterday, we could add a 5 million dollar winger for next season and not skip a beat.

You think the Calgary Flames have the best cap management the NHL?

I am not sure they are in the top half.

 

[Volica]

You think the Calgary Flames have the best cap management the NHL?

I am not sure they are in the top half.

Under 38 million tied up into your top two lines and your elite top pairing; with only 1 ELC in the batch. The rest signed long term. Yeah. That's pretty good.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

You think the Calgary Flames have the best cap management the NHL?

I am not sure they are in the top half.

Why?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yes I would agree that we have the best cap managed team with regards to having our core locked down.

 

[Baxterman]

Why?

First thing would be I think they are likely in a middle group between 10-20 teams that are all pretty similar. I think it is pretty tough to nail down exactly where teams are in terms of cap management so saying team a is 12th and team b is 13th is for the most part based on pretty minor things so I personally would likely group teams together.

As for issues I have with the Calgary group is that we are near to the cap and have been and produced very mediocre results.

We have a very expensive d core that still has question marks. We have questionable contracts in Brouwer, Stajan and Stone.

Perhaps some may put it on player management but it seems we are about 15th in the league in cap and 15th in the league in the standings. That seems to be about average in cap management not top in the league.

I mean Tampa is right with us in terms of spending, I would love to hear an argument that has us at better cap management than them. They seem to have managed their cap and contracts brilliantly to maintain a competitive team.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The Sutter mentality that built the best teams we have had in awhile and much more success than we have experienced outside the Cup win?

The problem with adding to what you have is that we don't have space to add to it. We are pretty much stuck with what we have plus adding a few (likely bad) secondary pieces.

Sutter's only major success as a GM was prior to the cap. During the cap era, he created a team that made the playoffs frequently, but could never make it past the first round.

 

[Baxterman]

Sutter's only major success as a GM was prior to the cap. During the cap era, he created a team that made the playoffs frequently, but could never make it past the first round.

Well one of those was because of a Huseilius crossbar but that's hockey and other teams have missed moving on for close calls as well.

I don't think he is great just not nearly as bad as some Flames fans like to paint him. He was certainly lightyears better than Feaster and I think the jury is out as to whether Treliving is better.

 

[Calculon]

The Sutter mentality that built the best teams we have had in awhile and much more success than we have experienced outside the Cup win?

The problem with adding to what you have is that we don't have space to add to it. We are pretty much stuck with what we have plus adding a few (likely bad) secondary pieces.

The only success Sutter had with the teams he built were when he coached them. Otherwise they were never anything more than bubble playoff teams squeaking in as the 7th or 8th place at the very end.

The Flames have 63.2M committed to 16 players for next season with only Kulak, Jankowski and Rittich as key depth pieces that need to be re-signed. Assuming those three sign for a combined 5M or less, Treliving will have almost 12M for a 7th defenceman and three fourth liners, In other words, there's plenty of cap space to bring in a top scorer; the myth that they can't needs to stop.

 

[Lunatik]

We won a division title with Sutter as GM and Playfair as head coach. I'm not sure how that is "never anything more than a bubble playoff team playoff team"

 

[Baxterman]

The only success Sutter had with the teams he built were when he coached them. Otherwise they were never anything more than bubble playoff teams squeaking in as the 7th or 8th place at the very end.

The Flames have 63.2M committed to 16 players for next season with only Kulak, Jankowski and Rittich as key depth pieces that need to be re-signed. Assuming those three sign for a combined 5M or less, Treliving will have almost 12M for a 7th defenceman and three fourth liners, In other words, there's plenty of cap space to bring in a top scorer; the myth that they can't needs to stop.

3 fourth liners? So Brouwer is playing higher than the 4th line, ouch that is a bad team in that case.

And excusing years that Sutter teams had success because he was the coach seems convenient. Squeaking in as the 7th and 8th place team seems very familiar now and looking ahead to the future.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Well one of those was because of a Huseilius crossbar but that's hockey and other teams have missed moving on for close calls as well.

I don't think he is great just not nearly as bad as some Flames fans like to paint him. He was certainly lightyears better than Feaster and I think the jury is out as to whether Treliving is better.

He had some strengths, such as making decent value trades (Tanguay, Cammalleri), but his cap management was not great, and his drafting was rough for the first half of his tenure as GM. Treliving's cap management is better, and drafting under him has been improved, although the two of them do have some interesting shared weaknesses (favouring overpaid bottom end of the roster meat/potatoes type players).

 

[crackdown44]

3 fourth liners? So Brouwer is playing higher than the 4th line, ouch that is a bad team in that case.

And excusing years that Sutter teams had success because he was the coach seems convenient. Squeaking in as the 7th and 8th place team seems very familiar now and looking ahead to the future.

Agree to disagree. Vegas is an anomaly, California teams are trending down (except maybe Anaheim) and Edmonton is a toss up whether or not they’ll bounce back. Calgary looks to be one of the few teams trending in the right direction in the division.

 

[Skobel24]

Agree to disagree. Vegas is an anomaly, California teams are trending down (except maybe Anaheim) and Edmonton is a toss up whether or not they’ll bounce back. Calgary looks to be one of the few teams trending in the right direction in the division.

Thank you. Damn near every player on that team is having a career year.

Is Marchessault really an 85 point forward?
Is Perron really an 85 point forward?
Is William Karlsson really going to shoot at nearly 25-30% in his career?
Are Smith and Haula really capable of maining a 60-70ish point pace?

 

[Calculon]

We won a division title with Sutter as GM and Playfair as head coach. I'm not sure how that is "never anything more than a bubble playoff team playoff team"

Division win was 2005-2006, D.Sutter's last year as coach. Playfair's one and only season was 2006-2007 where he managed an 8th place finish in the West, 8 points behind 7th.

3 fourth liners? So Brouwer is playing higher than the 4th line, ouch that is a bad team in that case.

Yeah, not the point. The Flames have plenty of space, that's the point; more than enough to fit in a top-nine offensive piece. Obviously a bunch of press box fodder won't cost the team 12M; in other words.

And excusing years that Sutter teams had success because he was the coach seems convenient. Squeaking in as the 7th and 8th place team seems very familiar now and looking ahead to the future.

Excusing? Again, missed point. Sutter built teams were nothing special because he was an antiquated dinosaur that didn't understand things like depth, or speed or skill and couldn't stop flip flopping between offensively porous teams and defensive bore fests. He managed one unsustainable and unrepeatable cinderalla run and grinded out a single division title over his tenure as coach. As GM, bubble playoff teams and nothing more. And all that with Iginla and Kiprusoff in their primes.

Yes, the current itiration of the Flames are a similar bubble playoff team however all of Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Ferland, Hamilton, Bennett, and Jankowski are younger than Iginla was in 2005-2006. There's plenty of room for growth on this team whether you accept it or not.

 

[Baxterman]

Division win was 2005-2006, D.Sutter's last year as coach. Playfair's one and only season was 2006-2007 where he managed an 8th place finish in the West, 8 points behind 7th.

Yeah, not the point. The Flames have plenty of space, that's the point; more than enough to fit in a top-nine offensive piece. Obviously a bunch of press box fodder won't cost the team 12M; in other words.

Excusing? Again, missed point. Sutter built teams were nothing special because he was an antiquated dinosaur that didn't understand things like depth, or speed or skill and couldn't stop flip flopping between offensively porous teams and defensive bore fests. He managed one unsustainable and unrepeatable cinderalla run and grinded out a single division title over his tenure as coach. As GM, bubble playoff teams and nothing more. And all that with Iginla and Kiprusoff in their primes.

Yes, the current itiration of the Flames are a similar bubble playoff team however all of Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Ferland, Hamilton, and Jankowski are younger than Iginla was in 2005-2006. There's plenty of room for growth on this team whether you accept it or not.

I am not missing the point. The teams may have been nothing special but by your definition that describes most NHL teams. He is a better GM than you are giving him credit for.

As for the growth of this team as I said I would love to see where it is coming from.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland, Hamilton may all be younger than Iginla was but are they likely to get better from where they are now?

How much better is Tkachuk likely to get? I think he certainly will improve but enough to move the team up a level? That is certainly in question.

And Jankowski is a 23 year old with a poor track record in his development and showing very little now. There is nothing to indicate he will be anything of use let alone developing into a guy that takes this team to the next step. NHL teams are littered with Jankowski's and the good ones have guys much better.

 

[Calculon]

I really don't know how you can think a bunch of guys in their early to mid twenties are finished products.

And Sutter did plenty of good things in his time but his legacy will forever be overrated because of what he achieved as a coach in that cinderalla run. As a GM and GM only he was thoroughly mediocre and I'm glad we agree on that; that was my point entirely at the onset.

 

[Baxterman]

I really don't know how you can think a bunch of guys in their early to mid twenties are finished products.

And Sutter did plenty of good things in his time but his legacy will forever be overrated because of what he achieved as a coach in that cinderalla run. As a GM and GM only he was thoroughly mediocre and I'm glad we agree on that; that was my point entirely at the onset.

To the bolded line fair enough, I have seen many say he was a terrible GM and based on what you were saying I unfairly lumped you in with that group. I don't think Sutter was a great GM but I don't think he was as bad as some think.

I guess I don't see Monahan or Gaudreau suddenly developing great defensive games at this point so basically we are going off of their offensive production because that is the main aspect they bring and it seems that for many players today that offensive production peaks in the early to mid 20's.

Ferland is 100% reliant on Gaudreau and Monahan so I don't see much development in his game. He is already way overachieving and he doesn't have the skill to offer up much more than he currently does.

Hamilton is a little different because defensemen can take longer to develop but watching him play I just don't see how the defensive part of the game is going to improve.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I personally think when Andersson, Valimaki, Fox and Kylington all the make the leap is when the Flames will hoist the Cup.

And Sutter was a much better GM than Feaster. Feaster gets credit for moving out poor contracts and drafting Gaudreau, which was on Button. Other than that, he was pretty brutal.

 

[crackdown44]

I personally think when Andersson, Valimaki, Fox and Kylington all the make the leap is when the Flames will hoist the Cup.

And Sutter was a much better GM than Feaster. Feaster gets credit for moving out poor contracts and drafting Gaudreau, which was on Button. Other than that, he was pretty brutal.

I think it’s next to impossible that all four of those guys ever dress in the same game

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think it’s next to impossible that all four of those guys ever dress in the same game

I think Brodie and Stone will be gone. Valimaki will replace Brodie and Kylington will replace Kulak.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

And convert Fox to RW

 

[Fig]

I've always believed Sutter's "bad moves" were actually good moves. He however suffered because his coaches didn't see eye to eye with him and had no idea how to use the roster that he acquired. I honestly believe that if we kept Sutter behind the bench, we win a cup. He had a vision how he wanted his team to work within his system. The coaches he hired all failed to bring that vision to reality.

Back on topic though, in about 3 years I see this at worst as Backlund paid 5.35 to play top 6 wing as an upgrade to Frolik. That's still pretty darn good.

I don't think he plays 3rd line unless we start trying to roll a top 9 similar to how Pittsburgh has Kessel on the 3rd line.