TSN: Flames ownership must commit to overhauling culture of mediocrity

Some Other Flame

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Dec 4, 2010
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Gotta say, it's nice to finally have a reporter covering the Flames with the spine to say it like it is

For far too long, Flames ownership (led by majority owner Murray Edwards) has built the team on the notion that the team could compete for the Stanley Cup if it squeaked into the playoffs. Long-term plans and blueprints have been eschewed in favour of a short-sighted, just-get-in mentality.

To its credit, ownership has provided financial resources, with the team consistently spending near the salary cap and showing the willingness to bring in high-profile free agents. That mindset provides the fanbase with a handful of home playoff games (and ownership with that revenue) every other year but does little in the way of building a consistent contender.

That decades-old mentality was on full display on Monday afternoon, showing zero signs of changing despite the team missing the playoffs despite making off-season moves (trading for Huberdeau and MacKenzie Weegar, signing Nazem Kadri) geared towards winning now.

After a season full of red flags, Bean, Edwards, and the rest of ownership need to seriously reflect on how they run the Flames and connect with the fanbase. They have to have uncomfortable conversations about their approach, how young players are treated and integrated into the lineup, and just how much influence Sutter has in the organization.

Walsh’s tweet appeared to be about his client’s relationship with the coach, but he inadvertently summarized the past 34 years for the Flames. As more and more quality people decide to move on from the franchise, ownership owes it to themselves, Flames fans, and the city of Calgary to consider a massive overhaul in how they run an organization that has defined mediocrity for far too long.

Based on Monday’s press conference, however, that introspection seems unlikely.


Cue the mass denial and attacks on Valji for doing his job
 
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Iggys Dome

Not allowed to say the “R-Word” (rebuild)
Mar 19, 2018
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I am glad Edwards is getting more shit publically for our "win now" mandate, but considering we have a shit ton of cap tied up in older guys, it's going to be hard to re-tool on the fly unless our next GM can swing some home runs this upcoming season.
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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The Flames may average out to mediocre, but I don't think it's fair to say it's the culture. We have won the division twice in the past four seasons. That isn't mediocrity. This season was mediocrity, but this article isn't talking about it as a one season problem.

Also, the Flames ten years ago did commit to the rebuild, and got some high picks out of it. The core that emerged showed the ability to perform above the level of many teams that have gone through longer and more painful rebuilds. That ownership is trying to avoid doing that twice in the same decade amid a time when the team has shown the ability to win divisions is understandable.
 
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super6646

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The Flames may average out to mediocre, but I don't think it's fair to say it's the culture. We have won the division twice in the past four seasons. That isn't mediocrity. This season was mediocrity, but this article isn't talking about it as a one season problem.

Also, the Flames ten years ago did commit to the rebuild, and got some high picks out of it. The core that emerged showed the ability to perform above the level of many teams that have gone through longer and more painful rebuilds. That ownership is trying to avoid doing that twice in the same decade amid a time when the team has shown the ability to win divisions is understandable.

They committed to a rebuild for one season…
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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They committed to a rebuild for one season…
That's a very warped view of it. They gave Feaster the licence to sell in 2012-13, which was the Iggy and Bouw trades, with Monahan drafted in 2013. Prior to that, we'd been mediocre for a while and had held onto draft picks, so we had at least quantity of prospects which was enhanced by those trades.

The following season was committed to the rebuild for its entirety, with more selling and the Bennett pick. The only thing that prevented more rebuild seasons was the fact that Gaudreau transformed this team into a playoff team so fast. At the start of the 2014-15 season, there is really no evidence to suggest that the Flames saw themselves as done with the rebuild. They had to deal with the team winning and they did.
 

Mobiandi

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Jan 17, 2015
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Flames ownership must commit to hiring front office staff who are actually qualified to lead this team.

I am beyond tired of this backtracking to rewrite Treliving's tenure as someone who was handcuffed by ownership during the whole process when he did a very good job of holding this team back with his free agency signings, coaching hires, and absence from the trade market for 5 years.
 

Some Other Flame

Registered User
Dec 4, 2010
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Attacks for doing his job? Nah.

He doesn't really provide anything of substance in the article though. Practically a summary of opinions already found online.
On message boards, sure.

But from the national media?

The last time the organization was getting this much bad press from virtually every corner was coincidentally, the last time Dutter was running things.
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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trade the upcoming UFA guys, Toffoli, Tanev, Lindholm, Backlund, one of Hanifin or Zadorov. Vladar too.

Sign Andersson and either Hanifin or Zadorov.

Move Dube and Zary to C. Add Pelletier, Coronato and Duehr to the top 9 W by the end of next year.

Take a step back for a few years while they adjust, add a few top ten picks. Hopefully we end up with Leonard, Moore, Yager or Dvorsky. This team could be good again quickly.

Unfortunately, we all know we are going to watch basically everyone come back and walk in the off-season. Then we are going to use our cap space in FA… and we all know what a horror show that’ll be.
 

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
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Flames ownership must commit to hiring front office staff who are actually qualified to lead this team.

I am beyond tired of this backtracking to rewrite Treliving's tenure as someone who was handcuffed by ownership during the whole process when he did a very good job of holding this team back with his free agency signings, coaching hires, and absence from the trade market for 5 years.

He failed miserably at building a win now team. Look at Dubas in Toronto. Besides the horrible first round luck, that is a consistent playoff team. Wtf is Calgary?

In saying that, are ownership is borderline aquilini-esk.
 

super6646

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That's a very warped view of it. They gave Feaster the licence to sell in 2012-13, which was the Iggy and Bouw trades, with Monahan drafted in 2013. Prior to that, we'd been mediocre for a while and had held onto draft picks, so we had at least quantity of prospects which was enhanced by those trades.

The following season was committed to the rebuild for its entirety, with more selling and the Bennett pick. The only thing that prevented more rebuild seasons was the fact that Gaudreau transformed this team into a playoff team so fast. At the start of the 2014-15 season, there is really no evidence to suggest that the Flames saw themselves as done with the rebuild. They had to deal with the team winning and they did.

The team did not go into 2012-13 with a rebuild mindset. The team sucked ass and they were dragged kicking and screaming into it. No, I will not be convinced that was a rebuilding year, that was our core finally imploding.

2013-14 was the one rebuild year. They went on a pdo bender in 2014-15 and never “looked back”
 

Kranix

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Jun 27, 2012
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The team did not go into 2012-13 with a rebuild mindset. The team sucked ass and they were dragged kicking and screaming into it. No, I will not be convinced that was a rebuilding year, that was our core finally imploding.

2013-14 was the one rebuild year. They went on a pdo bender in 2014-15 and never “looked back”
Every team that does a rebuild sucks ass and are dragged into it. Core implosion is what precedes every rebuild.
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
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Picking 20th isn't exciting for Valji, and doesn't generate clicks. So no matter what happens, if the Flames don't go scorched earth to try to draft the chosen one 3 years in a row, he will see it as wrong method. That's it.
Meanwhile, Dallas, cup finals in 2020, dangerous this year:
Robertson 2nd round
Hintz 2nd round
Benn 5th round
Pavelski 7th round
Seguin - acquired in trade.
Oettinger - late first

Boston, the best season of all time
Pastrnak 26th overall
Marchand 2nd round
Bergeron 2nd round
Krejci 2nd round
Lindholm - acquired in trade
McAvoy - mid first
Hall - UFA
Ullmark UFA
Coyle -acquired in trade
Zacha - Acquired in trade etc. etc.
 
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super6646

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Every team that does a rebuild sucks ass and are dragged into it. Core implosion is what precedes every rebuild.
That isn't true... see the 2017-18 New York Rangers.

And yes yes I'm aware their rebuild wasn't 100% perfect. But nevertheless, they realized their core wasn't getting it done so they shipped off a good chunk of their team.

And even if a team is dragged down into it, generally they will spend more than a year going into it. That's pretty much what Calgary did. No patience to build the right way, just get that nice playoff revenue. They got lucky in 2015 and since then its the same see-saw with the team. They've been kicking the can down the road for years and now we have one of the bleakest futures in the NHL while our GM stepped away after shitting in the can.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Victoria
That isn't true... see the 2017-18 New York Rangers.

And yes yes I'm aware their rebuild wasn't 100% perfect. But nevertheless, they realized their core wasn't getting it done so they shipped off a good chunk of their team.

And even if a team is dragged down into it, generally they will spend more than a year going into it. That's pretty much what Calgary did. No patience to build the right way, just get that nice playoff revenue. They got lucky in 2015 and since then its the same see-saw with the team. They've been kicking the can down the road for years and now we have one of the bleakest futures in the NHL while our GM stepped away after shitting in the can.
The one thing they weren't really able to control is the overachieving of the team in 2015.

All of the elements of a successful rebuild were there. Due to the years preceding the rebuild, the Flames already had some pieces they believed in in the cupboard, but the rebuild was about getting that top talent. If you look around at successful rebuilds, the recipe is typically that you have two drafts where you pull in the elite cornerstones, at least one other high pick to support, and the rest of the team building comes around from other sources. But it's those two key picks that are pivotal.

The Leafs did well with their two years timing up with Marner and Matthews. They had prior pieces in Kadri and Rielly, added Nylander as well and ended up jumpstarting things with Tavares. In terms of the duration of their rebuild, there is no real difference between their plan and ours.

The Oilers spent a lot of time at the bottom, certainly more than two years, but the only reason they got off the ground was the two years getting McDavid and Draisaitl. RNH is great, but he's only playing for a winning team because of those two. The extra years at the bottom did not factor into their current team in any positive way. It's all about those two years.

The Flames, realistically, did not differ from the Leafs in how they entered the rebuild. Where they differ is in the calibre of player who emerged from the two years. Our two guys were Bennett and Monahan. That's what all of this boils down to.

We act like we didn't allow the Flames to stay at the bottom, but that wasn't a management decision. They went into the 2014-15 season as a projected basement team. Gaudreau dragged them up. We did subsequently get that other piece in Tkachuk, so when you look at it through sober eyes, the Flames had all the components on paper that a successful rebuild has.

Every move that was made since then was geared towards trying to nurture the core into a true contender. You can't go back in time and redo the picks you got at the bottom when what you have is already winning, so you move ahead with what you have. That's what's been done consistently. Every single move Treliving made, regardless of how wrong it was in hindsight, was done with the intention of not just scraping into the playoffs, but going in as the one seed with a legit shot.
 
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23Monahan

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Jul 2, 2018
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The one thing they weren't really able to control is the overachieving of the team in 2015.

All of the elements of a successful rebuild were there. Due to the years preceding the rebuild, the Flames already had some pieces they believed in in the cupboard, but the rebuild was about getting that top talent. If you look around at successful rebuilds, the recipe is typically that you have two drafts where you pull in the elite cornerstones, at least one other high pick to support, and the rest of the team building comes around from other sources. But it's those two key picks that are pivotal.

The Leafs did well with their two years timing up with Marner and Matthews. They had prior pieces in Kadri and Rielly, added Nylander as well and ended up jumpstarting things with Tavares. In terms of the duration of their rebuild, there is no real difference between their plan and ours.

The Oilers spent a lot of time at the bottom, certainly more than two years, but the only reason they got off the ground was the two years getting McDavid and Draisaitl. RNH is great, but he's only playing for a winning team because of those two. The extra years at the bottom did not factor into their current team in any positive way. It's all about those two years.

The Flames, realistically, did not differ from the Leafs in how they entered the rebuild. Where they differ is in the calibre of player who emerged from the two years. Our two guys were Bennett and Monahan. That's what all of this boils down to.

We act like we didn't allow the Flames to stay at the bottom, but that wasn't a management decision. They went into the 2014-15 season as a projected basement team. Gaudreau dragged them up. We did subsequently get that other piece in Tkachuk, so when you look at it through sober eyes, the Flames had all the components on paper that a successful rebuild has.

Every move that was made since then was geared towards trying to nurture the core into a true contender. You can't go back in time and redo the picks you got at the bottom when what you have is already winning, so you move ahead with what you have. That's what's been done consistently. Every single move Treliving made, regardless of how wrong it was in hindsight, was done with the intention of not just scraping into the playoffs, but going in as the one seed with a legit shot.
That's the difference between picking 1st - 3rd overall vs picking 4th and later. You actually might land a mcdavid/matthews/draisatl type player. Comparing the leafs and oilers situation where they landed franchise changing players 1st overall to ours where we have never even picked top three is pretty silly as they are nothing alike.

Also we got antsy to quick, and decided to sign free agents who we then used instead of bennet (our highest pick in franchise histroy) and let him underdevelop in the bottom 6 for years. It didn't work as we never got out of the 2nd round, traded alor of our picks over the next couple years and inevitably worked our way back into mediocrity.
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
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That's the difference between picking 1st - 3rd overall vs picking 4th and later. You actually might land a mcdavid/matthews/draisatl type player. Comparing the leafs and oilers situation where they landed franchise changing players 1st overall to ours where we have never even picked top three is pretty silly
Kind of like Cale Makar at 4?
 

23Monahan

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
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Kind of like Cale Makar at 4?
Lol you are such a silly poster sometimes. You're really going to use a total anomaly? One that rarely ever happens?

But yes when a team gets lucky and a player like that is picked 4th overall.. then gets to play on a team that actually rebuilt and has a 1st overall franchise changing player like Mackinnon, aswell as 2nd overall captain Gabriel landeskog and 3rd overall stud prospect bowen Byram, versus a team who has never even picked top 3, you can actually go mediocre franchise to a cup winning team! Crazy stuff eh?
 

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