GDT: Flames @ Oilers: Part Tres 8 pm MT

[Ace Rimmer]

Wow, pretty sure I have been nothing but respectful on here and in fact have done almost no whining, I think the game was great, the score for me was not but the game itself was awesome.

Agreed, and let this be a reminder to everyone else that a dissenting opinion, respectfully presented, does not necessarily mean you need to agree, but you need to present your disagreement in a reasonably equally respectful manner.

With that out of the way, while the Gio incident surely had the potential to be disastrous it wasn't, which is the crux of most (some?) of our arguments. Sure he has a history of collisions and a few certainly questionable (and suspendable) and when you're built like Gio with oak stumps for legs, he's going to come out ahead in any collision. He's more likely than not going to be asked to respond on Saturday.

 

[Rubi]

Agreed, and let this be a reminder to everyone else that a dissenting opinion, respectfully presented, does not necessarily mean you need to agree, but you need to present your disagreement in a reasonably equally respectful manner.

With that out of the way, while the Gio incident surely had the potential to be disastrous it wasn't, which is the crux of most (some?) of our arguments. Sure he has a history of collisions and a few certainly questionable (and suspendable) and when you're built like Gio with oak stumps for legs, he's going to come out ahead in any collision. He's more likely than not going to be asked to respond on Saturday.

I look forward to Gio manning up and fighting McJesus. Norris winner vs Hart winner. I give the edge to McJesus since he's in his prime at 23 and Gio is an old man at 36. Hopefully McJesus doesn't beat Gio up too badly.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

I look forward to Gio manning up and fighting McJesus. Norris winner vs Hart winner. I give the edge to McJesus since he's in his prime at 23 and Gio is an old man at 36. Hopefully McJesus doesn't beat Gio up too badly.

Gio would rip McDavid’s arms out and beat him to death with them.

 

[Khrox]

Anyways back to hockey(lets skip the Gio stuff). The real takeaways for me are this:

1 - Rittich is real, I am eating a ton of crow because I thought you guys were screwed in net
2 - I get why a lot of you turned on Bennet, he is not the same guy that was drafted
3 - I do not get why some have turned on Brodie, he is one of the most underrated players in the game
4 - Tkachuk is still a coward, but at least he tried
5 - The RNH/Mono fight are the kind of fights the league should keep in the game
6- As I have said several times, Rinaldo should have dummied Gagner
7 - Nurse laid a very dirty cross check, he will anser for that next game I am sure
8 - Something is wrong with Gaudreau, I do not know what it is but something is not right
9 - This is the game I became a fan of Monohan, I always thought he was emotionless now I like him
10 - We need to meet in the playoffs, that will be BOA full tilt.

1. I've been on the Rittich train since day one, and am definitely glad he's getting the chance he is now. Dude is an absolute gem, and has a great personality (that we often don't get to see in the NHL)
2. He isn't, but the most frustrating part is the fact that we still get like 3-4 game spurts where he shows exactly why he was projected as a possible #1 pick that year (I believe all the top 4 were considered viable #1 picks that year).
3. It's because Brodie has a fair bit of brain-farts. He is a great D-man, but sometimes he gets relied on a little too much, and his play dives. Short of a trade that gets us good value (such as the nixed Kadri deal), I'd rather keep him as a mobile #2 or the guy who anchors the second pairing. But this year he has definitely been better than he was a couple years ago
4. I wouldn't call him a coward. But he is very selective in his battles when it comes to fights (example was the game that lead up to this. If he fought Kassian there, odds are it's a 4v4 or still 5v5 with Tkachuk in the box. Without that powerplay in a tied game, we might not win).
5. Agreed, that was a good fight from guys who don't have a history of it (Mony's first NHL fight, second career fight. He had 1 fight in the OHL, and that was in 2011)
6. Maybe, but Rinaldo has definitely dialed back his crazy, and has actually played pretty well when he's been in the lineup. If Gagner lands that hit, I'd agree Rinaldo should have absolutely gone after him. Until then, it's safe to not give up a powerplay.
7. Maybe, we'll see.
8. He's definitely been off this year
9. He's always been calm on the ice, but apparently in the locker room he gets pretty heated and passionate (He actually got into a yelling match with the coach and GM a couple years ago, after we were basically eliminated from playoff contention because they shut him down for the season to have his surgeries. He was playing through 4 separate injuries that needed surgeries and felt that if he was playing we still could have made it. Apparently it took like 3-4 days before he'd even talk to the GM after that).
10. This I could absolutely agree with.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I look forward to Gio manning up and fighting McJesus. Norris winner vs Hart winner. I give the edge to McJesus since he's in his prime at 23 and Gio is an old man at 36. Hopefully McJesus doesn't beat Gio up too badly.

That would be spectacular, but what I expect we'll see is Kassian trying to fight him, or Draisaitl trying to spear him.

 

[Oil Dood]

I look forward to Gio manning up and fighting McJesus. Norris winner vs Hart winner. I give the edge to McJesus since he's in his prime at 23 and Gio is an old man at 36. Hopefully McJesus doesn't beat Gio up too badly.

If he answers to someone it will likely be Kassian, Nurse or Kharia. I don't know what Chiasson did to fire up Rittich but chances are Chiasson will get a little more attention too, not in the form of a fight though, just some extra shots here or there.

I don't actually think anything will come from the Gio incicdent.

 

[Janks]

That would be spectacular, but what I expect we'll see is Kassian trying to fight him, or Draisaitl trying to spear him.

I think that is the most likely outcome unfortunately. But "the code" says he needs to fight his own battles, so McD isn't labelled a crybaby turtle.

Riot if McD doesn't drop the mitts with Gio.

 

[Oil Dood]

I think that is the most likely outcome unfortunately. But "the code" says he needs to fight his own battles, so McD isn't labelled a crybaby turtle.

Riot if McD doesn't drop the mitts with Gio.

Um that is not quite how it works. For example would you call Gaudreau a trurtle if Lucic or someone went after somebody for a cheap shot on him? The reason Tkachuk got labeled was because he is the one who poked the bear, the result for him would be the same if he ran McD, Kassian would tune him in. That is the role of the enforcer.

I don't think you understand the code.

Prime example here, would you expect Gaudreau to fight Backstrom here? Of course not.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Ah so this "code" doesn't apply to players unwilling to fight.

Gotcha.

 

[Janks]

Um that is not quite how it works. For example would you call Gaudreau a trurtle if Lucic or someone went after somebody for a cheap shot on him? The reason Tkachuk got labeled was because he is the one who poked the bear, the result for him would be the same if he ran McD, Kassian would tune him in. That is the role of the enforcer.

I don't think you understand the code.

Prime example here, would you expect Gaudreau to fight Backstrom here? Of course not.

So let me get this straight...

Tkachuk can't lay a hit on someone without a reasonable expectation of getting jumped from behind.

I'm sure this would then apply to McD the same. Say he crosschecks someone from behind or slashes their hands - should he also be required to "answer the bell" if they come after him? He's poked the bear from what I understand. Right after Gio almost killed him with a "knee on knee" hit, he subsequently slashed Hamonic. Does this give Hamonic the right to "tune him in" because he poked the bear? Or can anyone (ie our enforcer) on the Flames now go after McDavid?

 

[Oil Dood]

So let me get this straight...

Tkachuk can't lay a hit on someone without a reasonable expectation of getting jumped from behind.

I'm sure this would then apply to McD the same. Say he crosschecks someone from behind or slashes their hands - should he also be required to "answer the bell" if they come after him? He's poked the bear from what I understand. Right after Gio almost killed him with a "knee on knee" hit, he subsequently slashed Hamonic. Does this give Hamonic the right to "tune him in" because he poked the bear? Or can anyone (ie our enforcer) on the Flames now go after McDavid?

You honestly cannot think those two plays are similar?
Remember you represent your fan base here.

If the slash was bad enough Hamonic has every right. Can you lead me to a link where a whole bunch of NHLers talk about McDavid's slash or maybe you can send me to a link showing me how much media coverage that slash got?

If you follow the code.....Gio would have been targeted for the knee.

Again though if you clearly cannot see the difference that is on you, but I would reccomend that you do not go all in with that idea because it is pretty well foolish.

 

[Oil Dood]

Ah so this "code" doesn't apply to players unwilling to fight.

Gotcha.

You want to go on the main boards and see if everyone sees that exactly the same as you? Giordano threw the knee, if Hamonic had an issue with McDavid he sure could try to tune him in....except I gotta hunch that the Oilers on the ice would immediatly feed Hamonic his lunch. If you are a good team you should always protect your best player.

 

[heretik27]

So let me get this straight...

Tkachuk can't lay a hit on someone without a reasonable expectation of getting jumped from behind.

I'm sure this would then apply to McD the same. Say he crosschecks someone from behind or slashes their hands - should he also be required to "answer the bell" if they come after him? He's poked the bear from what I understand. Right after Gio almost killed him with a "knee on knee" hit, he subsequently slashed Hamonic. Does this give Hamonic the right to "tune him in" because he poked the bear? Or can anyone (ie our enforcer) on the Flames now go after McDavid?

I wouldn't have been shocked to see Oduya respond to this hit, but to my recollection he never did. Most superstars don't fight though.

 

[SKRusty]

You want to go on the main boards and see if everyone sees that exactly the same as you? Giordano threw the knee, if Hamonic had an issue with McDavid he sure could try to tune him in....except I gotta hunch that the Oilers on the ice would immediatly feed Hamonic his lunch. If you are a good team you should always protect your best player.

Get over it. Go talk to people on the S'Oilers board and convince them. The NHL has made a statement that there is no review of the play.

Even Connor has said it is hockey and that he is not going to make a story out of this so STFU.

The only reason you are here is to stir the pot.

Flames 3 -- S'Oilers 0 (soon to be 4-0)
Gio 2 -- McDavid 0
Chucky 5 -- Kassian 2

The Flames rock and the S'Oilers suck.

Simple

 

[Oil Dood]

Get over it. Go talk to people on the S'Oilers board and convince them. The NHL has made a statement that there is no review of the play.

Even Connor has said it is hockey and that he is not going to make a story out of this so ****.

The only reason you are here is to stir the pot.

Flames 3 -- S'Oilers 0 (soon to be 4-0)
Gio 2 -- McDavid 0
Chucky 5 -- Kassian 2

The Flames rock and the S'Oilers suck.

Simple

I don't recall you and I having a discussion. Yet you come at me aggressive again, was actually having a pretty civil discussion with other posters on here.

 

[Janks]

You want to go on the main boards and see if everyone sees that exactly the same as you? Giordano threw the knee, if Hamonic had an issue with McDavid he sure could try to tune him in....except I gotta hunch that the Oilers on the ice would immediatly feed Hamonic his lunch. If you are a good team you should always protect your best player.

But that doesn't follow "the code". Almost every Oiler fan post pre-Wednesday said that Tkachuk needed to answer the bell and not Rinaldo/Lucic etc. If Hamonic takes exception to what McD did - McD should have to fight that battle without his clown possy jumping in to "feed him his lunch".

Surprisingly enough, Tkachuk is ALSO a star payer in this league - despite what most Oiler fans are saying. He might not be McD good - but he's still a draw for the league.

Seems to me there's a double standard here - Tkachuk should fight because it's the code for poking a bear, but McD can do no wrong and can have his goons jump players.

 

[Janks]

I wouldn't have been shocked to see Oduya respond to this hit, but to my recollection he never did. Most superstars don't fight though.

This is exactly it - just weird the expectation from most people is that Tkachuk needs to and other players don't. Tkachuk is a good agitator - doesn't mean he needs to fight clowns all game when he's better served playing on the ice.

 

[Oil Dood]

But that doesn't follow "the code". Almost every Oiler fan post pre-Wednesday said that Tkachuk needed to answer the bell and not Rinaldo/Lucic etc. If Hamonic takes exception to what McD did - McD should have to fight that battle without his clown possy jumping in to "feed him his lunch".

Surprisingly enough, Tkachuk is ALSO a star payer in this league - despite what most Oiler fans are saying. He might not be McD good - but he's still a draw for the league.

Seems to me there's a double standard here - Tkachuk should fight because it's the code for poking a bear, but McD can do no wrong and can have his goons jump players.

You and I could argue that point but.....did McDavid target Hamonic with what several former NHLer have described as predatory hits?

 

[Oil Dood]

Honestly you guys are compairing how Tkachuk plays to McDavid?!?!
Please tell me that that is not the hill you are going to die on here?

 

[SKRusty]

No there have been 26 posts in the last 83 (31.3%) posts. 3/4 of which are you trying to convince the Flames board Gio is a dirty player and should have been disciplined by the league. At best that is a 2-3 reply convo. The other 18 is somebody that refuses to leave it alone.

I came back 24 hours later to see the same crap regurgitated for the second time.

The League has ruled. The game is done. Few here agree with your viewpoint (Surprised?)

If you are going to continue posting the same crap I am going continue to point it out. How many people here are going at you for Draisaitl's misdeeds? Gagner's? So leave it alone already. We could be going on and on about the 3 penalties we got in the third with none for Edmonton though there were cases to be made. SO again SHUT UP about Gio

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Honestly you guys are compairing how Tkachuk plays to McDavid?!?!
Please tell me that that is not the hill you are going to die on here?

I don't think anyone here has made that claim.

As for importance to the team, well yes Tkachuk is one of our key players. Arguably he's currently our best player. Much like McDavid is your best player. Of course, that says nothing to the skill level of each of those individuals as clearly McDavid is the more skilled player of the two, and anyone stating otherwise isn't being honest. That doesn't diminish their individual importance to their respective teams.

My issue with the so-called "code" that keeps being thrown around is that there is no expectation for a player to have to fight to respond to a clean legal open ice hit. Clean, in the sense that no penalty was called, that the NHL reviews and dismisses claims that illegal hits were made.

In the Giordano case, while it was nearly an illegal play, the referees were letting minor things go all night. Yes, he had his leg out and ankle to ankle contact appears to have been made. Also appears that he stuck his arm out too, which is why someone lost a glove. The "almost kneed him" argument is invalid because he didn't do it, whether or not there is an indication that this may be a pattern.

Be angry with the referees for not calling things consistent that night, not Giordano for almost/maybe interfering or tripping McDavid. There isn't a code that applies here, just the rulebook.

 

[Janks]

You and I could argue that point but.....did McDavid target Hamonic with what several former NHLer have described as predatory hits?

No, he didn't - but he did slash Hamonic. I'm sure if you asked Methot if slashing was harmless, he might tell you otherwise after Crosby took off some finger. I bet if you asked former NHLer's - they'd agree with that sentiment as well. McD isn't a saint - he has crosschecked people from behind (see post from heretik27 above as one example). Seems like that's also predatory to me.

 

[Oil Dood]

I don't think anyone here has made that claim.

As for importance to the team, well yes Tkachuk is one of our key players. Arguably he's currently our best player. Much like McDavid is your best player. Of course, that says nothing to the skill level of each of those individuals as clearly McDavid is the more skilled player of the two, and anyone stating otherwise isn't being honest. That doesn't diminish their individual importance to their respective teams.

My issue with the so-called "code" that keeps being thrown around is that there is no expectation for a player to have to fight to respond to a clean legal open ice hit. Clean, in the sense that no penalty was called, that the NHL reviews and dismisses claims that illegal hits were made.

In the Giordano case, while it was nearly an illegal play, the referees were letting minor things go all night. Yes, he had his leg out and ankle to ankle contact appears to have been made. Also appears that he stuck his arm out too, which is why someone lost a glove. The "almost kneed him" argument is invalid because he didn't do it, whether or not there is an indication that this may be a pattern.

Be angry with the referees for not calling things consistent that night, not Giordano for almost/maybe interfering or tripping McDavid. There isn't a code that applies here, just the rulebook.

Thank you, that is what I was trying to get across was there is no code to look at. As an Oiler fan I was more than ticked off but not at Giordano(if McD had been injured then yes I would be pissed), I was actually more mad at a player we have named Jujar Kharia, he is having trouble staying in the line up and that was his opprotunity.

That code has exsited for a very long time, and yes sometimes it includes clean hits, I am not gonna argue about the legality of the Tkachuk hits , I thought the first one was very questionable but the second one was legal, but they were predatory, he had to leave his defensive position(his job is not below the blueline) to throw those hits. Eventually if you play a heavy game it catches up to you, ask Raffi Torres.

 

[Oil Dood]

No, he didn't - but he did slash Hamonic. I'm sure if you asked Methot if slashing was harmless, he might tell you otherwise after Crosby took off some finger. I bet if you asked former NHLer's - they'd agree with that sentiment as well. McD isn't a saint - he has crosschecked people from behind (see post from heretik27 above as one example). Seems like that's also predatory to me.

Nor did I claim he was, hell he got suspended for a head shot once. Did you understand the context of the Crosby slash? Did you watch that game? Methot took a questionable run at him, the ref no called it and so Crosby took action, not a great idea but Methot has not touched him since.

Do you want to go video for video on dirty play, Tkachuk vs McDavid?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

You want to go on the main boards and see if everyone sees that exactly the same as you? Giordano threw the knee, if Hamonic had an issue with McDavid he sure could try to tune him in....except I gotta hunch that the Oilers on the ice would immediatly feed Hamonic his lunch. If you are a good team you should always protect your best player.

Ahhh, that's why nothing happened!