Confirmed with Link: Flames Create Goaltending Department

[Nanuuk]

This seems to be a trend in the NHL. I like it. And I like it even more that Signalet is being bumped out of the way.

Click to read more...

 

[DFF]

Nice to get promoted for suck at your job. At least now he is further away from day to day.

 

[Mobiandi]

Fired by promotion, an NHL classic

 

[CamPopplestone]

We don't know how this actually will work, so Sigalet may actually be doing more now. Even if it's not as hands on, he's essentially controlling how our entire goalie scouting, drafting and development is done. I wouldn't be so quick to be happy about that.

 

[Mazatt]

What's the scoop on Labarbera?

Aside from not knowing that I like the idea of having a dedicated development coach to work with the young goalies, going to be interesting to see if there are any changes in how goalies come up through the system/any improvement at the AHL level among existing goalies with a dev coach out there.

 

[Nanuuk]

I googled Sigalet to find out more about him and was surprised to learn that Multiple Sclerosis cut short his goaltending career. I hope his health is still ok. I welcome the reorganization and development of the goaltending department. Labarbera is a big guy 6'3" 220 when he was playing and has solid NHL experience something Sigalet was lacking. Hopefully, being about Markstrom's size, they'll mesh right away. Even Ritter will benefit I'm thinking from Labarbera's experience.

 

[Fig]

Fired by promotion, an NHL classic

I kinda disagree with this assessment. I don't disagree that Sigalet's performance so far has been wanting. But I also think that with this promotion and bringing in Labarbera, this will remove Sigalet from being responsible for a facet that he is seemingly very bad at, and this promotion also makes him responsible for something he's been quietly very good at.


Sigalet moved up in the organization from our AHL team after Malarchuk left IIRC. But when I was doing research to support why we should turf Sigalet, I recall noticing that Sigalet somehow had not spent more than 2 seasons with any of our goalies (even with long tenure) with the literal exception of Gilles, Smith and Rittich. Some of those goalies were in the org for several years.

Yet, the team had high praise for him, like they knew that he was doing a decently good job with how his chain had been yanked around or something like that (ie: 4 headed goalie monster).

Most of the goalie interviews say that most of the goalies are impressed with Sigalet in his ability to notice certain things and point them out. But at the same time, it seemed obvious that when the goalies needed goalie coach direction, Sigalet seemingly couldn't offer anything and the goalies would crater late season and what not.

I seriously wonder if it's because of MS cutting his career short that he isn't able to relate at that level of intensity and offer guidance when things are tough late season/playoffs. Having a journeyman guy like Labarbera could go a long way in filling those holes for the experience side of things.

There is seemingly enough evidence that Sigalet is pretty good at identifying talent with the Rittich and Chechelev stories. It does seem like Sigalet has decent fundamentals in terms of goalie coaching. But it also seems like Sigalet's Achilles heel is the experience side of goalie coaching, so honestly, here's hoping that Labarbera rounds that out and here's hoping we can graduate a few more prospects in the next few seasons, even if they only end up as McElhinney calibre goalies (it's still a huge, huge improvement to what we've had for decades). I think we added some sport psychologists too, which I think will also help as well by not requiring Sigalet to help in that manner where he is seemingly not strong enough at.

 

[Mobiandi]

I kinda disagree with this assessment. I don't disagree that Sigalet's performance so far has been wanting. But I also think that with this promotion and bringing in Labarbera, this will remove Sigalet from being responsible for a facet that he is seemingly very bad at, and this promotion also makes him responsible for something he's been quietly very good at.


Sigalet moved up in the organization from our AHL team after Malarchuk left IIRC. But when I was doing research to support why we should turf Sigalet, I recall noticing that Sigalet somehow had not spent more than 2 seasons with any of our goalies (even with long tenure) with the literal exception of Gilles, Smith and Rittich. Some of those goalies were in the org for several years.

Yet, the team had high praise for him, like they knew that he was doing a decently good job with how his chain had been yanked around or something like that (ie: 4 headed goalie monster).

Most of the goalie interviews say that most of the goalies are impressed with Sigalet in his ability to notice certain things and point them out. But at the same time, it seemed obvious that when the goalies needed goalie coach direction, Sigalet seemingly couldn't offer anything and the goalies would crater late season and what not.

I seriously wonder if it's because of MS cutting his career short that he isn't able to relate at that level of intensity and offer guidance when things are tough late season/playoffs. Having a journeyman guy like Labarbera could go a long way in filling those holes for the experience side of things.

There is seemingly enough evidence that Sigalet is pretty good at identifying talent with the Rittich and Chechelev stories. It does seem like Sigalet has decent fundamentals in terms of goalie coaching. But it also seems like Sigalet's Achilles heel is the experience side of goalie coaching, so honestly, here's hoping that Labarbera rounds that out and here's hoping we can graduate a few more prospects in the next few seasons, even if they only end up as McElhinney calibre goalies (it's still a huge, huge improvement to what we've had for decades). I think we added some sport psychologists too, which I think will also help as well by not requiring Sigalet to help in that manner where he is seemingly not strong enough at.

I agree that Sigalet has a good eye for budding goalie talent and he seems to have built up a lot of trust in him, in that regard.

I also think it's quite telling that he exits the day-to-day coaching responsibilities before handling the best goalie we've had since Kipper. From what it appears, he'd been doing both pro/amateur scouting and coaching for the Flames up until this point

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This is solely my opinion, but I view this as Sigalet seems like he’s really good at the mental aspect of things. I think he has experience and understands goaltending at the NHL level and is quite well respected. But maybe he’s not the best coach. Some guys are better at steering the ship, while others are better at being hands on. I also think the Flames like Sigalet and didn’t want to fire him but realize a change was needed, so this was a way that everyone wins and they added depth to their largest area of weakness.

 

[Bounces R Way]

This mans here to clean up the town. Godspeed Sheriff Labarbera. Should have hired a voodoo witch doctor.

Department will crumble halfway through the 1st round.

 

[Fig]

I agree that Sigalet has a good eye for budding goalie talent and he seems to have built up a lot of trust in him, in that regard.

I also think it's quite telling that he exits the day-to-day coaching responsibilities before handling the best goalie we've had since Kipper. From what it appears, he'd been doing both pro/amateur scouting and coaching for the Flames up until this point

Fair, but to be honest, we've had issues with goaltending long before Sigalet, so it's perhaps a bit unfair to Sigalet to blame him. I don't know what it is, but the organization has been horrific with goalies. We were bad with prospects in general too and Treliving has been working to fix that and I think he has been successful, but what is killing off our goalies I really do not know.

I think we believe that hopefully this move is in the right direction.

Here's some funky goalie coach and goalie prospect stuff though:
- Gilles derailed hard, but TBH, he spent very little time with Sigalet. IIRC it was like 1.5 seasons throughout his whole tenure with the Flames.
- Sigalet left the AHL before quite a few of our prospects started major failing. We also did a goalie coaching restructuring in 2019 and Sigalet survived. I believe Colin Zulianello was the Stockton coach for like 3 seasons.
- Not to fully criticize Zulianello, he has his own goalie academy and his pupils include Carter Hutton and Matt Murray.
- Currently, I believe our AHL goalie coach is Thomas Speer who works with USNTP for the U17 and U18 groups.
- Sigalet had very little prospects to work with. I think the closest he got hands on prospect wise was Gilles and Rittich. Everyone else was basically washed up vets set in their own ways, or were probably far more Zulianello's and Speer's hands projects vs Sigalet's hands on projects.
- Insanely, if you look at the overall stats, it seems like most of the goalies we acquire are always hot/cold type goalies. The performance of our prospects also always look like it's hot/cold. Markstrom is probably the first guy in a long time at the NHL level that is just considered a relatively consistent work horse type guy. Ramo, Elliott, Smith, Johnson, Rittich etc. aren't guys that are considered super consistent. Their play seemingly goes up and down with their emotions.

Some of this stuff might give insight as to why we kept Sigalet around.

 

[Fig]

What's the scoop on Labarbera?

Aside from not knowing that I like the idea of having a dedicated development coach to work with the young goalies, going to be interesting to see if there are any changes in how goalies come up through the system/any improvement at the AHL level among existing goalies with a dev coach out there.

I think he's been in Calgary for a while after retirement (2016). He was the goal tending coach for the Hitmen.

Career wise, he's played for a ton of teams in the NHL and AHL. I wonder if this helped him develop his own process for goalie coaching, or if he legitimately was exposed to great and varied styles where he could just absorb and pick and choose the things he liked/hated from the different clubs to develop his style.


EDIT: Random info.

- Apparently he met his wife Kodette in Calgary in 2006.
- Apparently his first name isn't Jason, it's Antonio.
- The pair are huge about volunteering and philanthropy.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

What's the scoop on Labarbera?

Aside from not knowing that I like the idea of having a dedicated development coach to work with the young goalies, going to be interesting to see if there are any changes in how goalies come up through the system/any improvement at the AHL level among existing goalies with a dev coach out there.

he was team Canada’s goaltending coach last year and this year at the WJC. He did a good job with that Hoffer kid last year.
Pretty sure he’s the Hitmen goalie coach right now.

not sure I like the promotion within the CSEC... Should have brought in some Russian guy and draft a boat load of Russian goalies with mid-late picks. The Russians seem to know something about goaltending other people haven’t figured out yet.

 

[Nanuuk]

Labarbera is currently Canada's World Junior team goaltending coach. That has to be a good sign that he is well regarded.

 

[JPeeper]

This mans here to clean up the town. Godspeed Sheriff Labarbera.

That's not Labarbera bro. He's the middle guy in the OP.

 

[Anglesmith]

For all the shit thrown at Sigalet, at least to my memory there haven't been any goalies who left and then became good. Many examples exist around the league, but not with us.

 

[DFF]

For all the shit thrown at Sigalet, at least to my memory there haven't been any goalies who left and then became good. Many examples exist around the league, but not with us.

Sound like after he messed with you, you are finished?

 

[Anglesmith]

Sound like after he messed with you, you are finished?

You could interpret it that way, but the other side of it is that it leaves open the possibility that Sigalet has dealt with exclusively goalies who either didn't have it anymore or never had it in the first place. Without any examples like that, you can't definitively point to Sigalet as a negative factor.

Sigalet has dealt with:

- Karri Ramo, who was good with the Flames but couldn't stay healthy.
- Jonas Hiller, who was finished, but did have some good stretches with us.
- Joni Ortio, who was unable to make much of a career in the NHL.
- Brian Elliott, who got better and better during his season here (and then sewered the team in the playoffs).
- Chad Johnson, who played some of his best hockey with the Flames.
- Jon Gillies, who hasn't spent much time with the pro club at all.
- David Rittich, who developed into a very good goaltender before COVID.
- Eddie Lack, who was already finished when he came here.
- Mike Smith, who was nearly finished when he came here, but managed to have a good year anyway.
- Cam Talbot, who actually resurrected his career here.

Of those, the only ones who you could really argue that Sigalet has "ruined" would be Ortio and Gillies, but I think it's a pretty thin argument. Ortio left us young enough and toolsy enough that a good coach would've been able to 'fix' him if the problem was coaching. And Gillies has gotten steadily worse while in the AHL, not while working with Sigalet.

Meanwhile, you've got Hiller, Lack and Smith who the Flames attempted to resurrect (which is always a low-percentage play). You can't really base an argument off of that.

And on the positive side, you have Elliott, Johnson, Rittich and Talbot who have improved while playing for the Flames under Sigalet.

I think the criticism of Sigalet is an echo-chamber thing and doesn't hold much water. The real problem with our goaltending is the goaltenders. We have consistently gotten unlucky with goalie prospects who fail to take the next step after looking promising in junior (though it's not really that unlucky when you consider the probabilities with goaltending prospects), and at the pro level we have consistently attempted to find bargains instead of splashing out for more of a sure thing. Markstrom represents a refreshing change.

 

[DFF]

You could interpret it that way, but the other side of it is that it leaves open the possibility that Sigalet has dealt with exclusively goalies who either didn't have it anymore or never had it in the first place. Without any examples like that, you can't definitively point to Sigalet as a negative factor.

Sigalet has dealt with:

- Karri Ramo, who was good with the Flames but couldn't stay healthy.
- Jonas Hiller, who was finished, but did have some good stretches with us.
- Joni Ortio, who was unable to make much of a career in the NHL.
- Brian Elliott, who got better and better during his season here (and then sewered the team in the playoffs).
- Chad Johnson, who played some of his best hockey with the Flames.
- Jon Gillies, who hasn't spent much time with the pro club at all.
- David Rittich, who developed into a very good goaltender before COVID.
- Eddie Lack, who was already finished when he came here.
- Mike Smith, who was nearly finished when he came here, but managed to have a good year anyway.
- Cam Talbot, who actually resurrected his career here.

Of those, the only ones who you could really argue that Sigalet has "ruined" would be Ortio and Gillies, but I think it's a pretty thin argument. Ortio left us young enough and toolsy enough that a good coach would've been able to 'fix' him if the problem was coaching. And Gillies has gotten steadily worse while in the AHL, not while working with Sigalet.

Meanwhile, you've got Hiller, Lack and Smith who the Flames attempted to resurrect (which is always a low-percentage play). You can't really base an argument off of that.

And on the positive side, you have Elliott, Johnson, Rittich and Talbot who have improved while playing for the Flames under Sigalet.

I think the criticism of Sigalet is an echo-chamber thing and doesn't hold much water. The real problem with our goaltending is the goaltenders. We have consistently gotten unlucky with goalie prospects who fail to take the next step after looking promising in junior (though it's not really that unlucky when you consider the probabilities with goaltending prospects), and at the pro level we have consistently attempted to find bargains instead of splashing out for more of a sure thing. Markstrom represents a refreshing change.

The problem is the Flames goaltending has been subpar if not out right garbage and Sigalet has been a big part of that. Cant give him credit for failures.
But you are partially right in that, they have been shopping at the garage sale for the premium position.

 

[Fig]

The problem is the Flames goaltending has been subpar if not out right garbage and Sigalet is a big part of that. Cant give him credit for failures.
But you are partially right in that, they have been shopping at the garage sale for the premium position.

Can we stop for a second and realize the best goalie in franchise history was a fluke trade? Sutter wanted Toskala and SJS said no, sending us instead Kipprusoff. We also traded up to get Trevor Kidd instead of drafting Brodeur.

Someone broke a mirror or stepped on a leprechaun when it comes to goalies since the inception of the org.

 

[Tkachuky]

Honest question... how important is goaltending coaching at NHL level?


Do you guys think it’s less or more important than Head coach/Assistant to the skaters?

 

[Sparky93]

Can we stop for a second and realize the best goalie in franchise history was a fluke trade? Sutter wanted Toskala and SJS said no, sending us instead Kipprusoff. We also traded up to get Trevor Kidd instead of drafting Brodeur.

Someone broke a mirror or stepped on a leprechaun when it comes to goalies since the inception of the org.

Don't forget we actually saved the Kidd pick by trading for a very young Giguare before blowing it again, moving him for a 2nd.
Markstrom himself should be a good indication of what's wrong with our goaltending system. Draft +8 before he figured it out and was widely regarded as a bust before that. Call me crazy but I wish we would've held onto Gillies for a bit longer.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Sound like after he messed with you, you are finished?

Or maybe it's that he's able to get water from a stone, where others could not? Those goalies might have already been finished, and Sigalet got another year or two out of them.

This goaltending department is a good idea, but is lacking a scouting staff. Needs one or two pro scouts, a couple of European scouts, and a couple of amateur scouts.

 

[Anglesmith]

The problem is the Flames goaltending has been subpar if not out right garbage and Sigalet has been a big part of that. Cant give him credit for failures.
But you are partially right in that, they have been shopping at the garage sale for the premium position.

Based on examples, though, what argument is there that "Sigalet has been a big part of" the struggles? What evidence is there to suggest that he's been a negative influence on any goalie, let alone all of them?

There are at least a few examples which if anything would suggest the opposite.

 

[herashak]

Labarbera had some steezy gear setups, good sign. Good canadian butterfly boy