Line Combos: Fix our forward lines until Hopkins gets back

[tempest2i]

So taking the best pairs and slotting players who do not suck with each other we get.

Jeonsuu-Hall-Yak
Perron-Gagner-Eager
Smyth-Gordon-Eberle
Jones-Lander-Hemsky

You may not like them!
but historically they are our best results.

Sure, lets do it.

 

[Joey Moss]

Eager - Hall - Yakupov
Joensuu - Gagner - Eberle
Perron - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Jones

 

[Mr Forever]

Eager/Jonesuu - Hall - Yakupov

Perron - Gagner - Eberle

Eager/Jonesuu - Gordon - Hemsky

 

[BarDownBobo]

This is probably crazy, but could the solution possibly be giving Marco Roy or Jujhar Khaira a 9 game tryout? Roy is a natural C, and Khaira had played C at the rookie tourney and could fit in at LW if Hall goes to C. Highly unlikely, but it's at least a discussion piece I guess.

Perron-Hall-Eberle
Khaira-Gagner-Yakupov

Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Perron-Roy-Yakupov

If not I think Omark gets a shot in there somewhere.

 

[thadd]

Lot of good responses. We sure do have a lot of options.

 

[Mr Sakich]

This is probably crazy, but could the solution possibly be giving Marco Roy or Jujhar Khaira a 9 game tryout? Roy is a natural C, and Khaira had played C at the rookie tourney and could fit in at LW if Hall goes to C. Highly unlikely, but it's at least a discussion piece I guess.

Perron-Hall-Eberle
Khaira-Gagner-Yakupov

Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Perron-Roy-Yakupov

If not I think Omark gets a shot in there somewhere.

if this ends up happening, you can claim victory over the internets

 

[guymez]

Meh. He wasn't(and won't be) any worse than any of the other wingers in the top6.

He will be a lot worse than virtually every top 6 winger currently on the team.
Name the other top 6 players you think would do worse than Yak against the other teams best players?

Surprisingly enough he was brutal on the left side. Go figure once he was put on the right side he was far from brutal. I think it had something to do with playing a position he was not playing ever before. The coaching move was brutal to move him to the LW in his rookie season in the NHL. Don't ya think??? They basically set him up to look brutal.

Yak looked better on the right side and still played against very weak competition. This isnt as much an issue with which side he played on as it is with his awareness defensively. He has a long ways to go and playing him against tough comp will all but kill his progress at this point.

He did fine the last few games against top competition, although it is a small sample size.

He didnt play against top competition in any meaningful way at all I am not sure why you would state that he did. Even if he did 12 games is obviously not enough to conclude anything.

He's gunna have to learn eventually.

Yup...and throwing him against the best players in the world and watching him get killed would be the height of stupidity in terms of his development. Quality teams dont make rookie mistakes like that. Bring Yak along slowly and reap the rewards. Bringing him along too quickly simply stalls his development.

A lot of posters seem to be treating this like NHL 13 and playing Yak on the top line in his 2nd NHL season and his 1st NHL season was less than 50 games.
Thankfully Eakins will be a lot smarter than that....the stakes are too high...he wont screw around with a young players career like that.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Perron - Hall - Eberle
Yakupov -Gagner - Hemsky
Joensuu - Gordon - Jones
Smyth - Lander - Brown/Eager

PK pairs

Gordon and Smyth
Laner and Jones

 

[McDNicks17]

He will be a lot worse than virtually every top 6 winger currently on the team.
Name the other top 6 players you think would do worse than Yak against the other teams best players?

If you expect him to somehow revert back to what he was in the first 10-15 games of last season, he might be "a lot worse".

Outside of RNH and Gordon, I don't see anyone in the top9 being noticeably better or worse defensively than Yak.

 

[guymez]

If you expect him to somehow revert back to what he was in the first 10-15 games of last season, he might be "a lot worse".

Outside of RNH and Gordon, I don't see anyone in the top9 being noticeably better or worse defensively than Yak.

Well now you are moving the goalposts...originally you said top 6.

No matter...here are the top 9 players who are better then Yak defensively...

Hall, Rnh, Eberle, Perron, Gagner, Hemsky, Gordon, Jones and Smyth (assuming he plays some minutes in the top 9).

I get the fascination with rookies but I have no idea why people think that less than 50 pro games is enough to decide that they need to be thrown into the fire and play against the best players in the world.
It would be a ridiculous notion even if Yak played 80+ games in his first year but he played less then 50 and struggled mighty defensively.
Even a far superior defensive player like Paajarvi needed a couple of years before his defensive assignments got more difficult.

Give Yak 2-3 additional years against weak comp to figure a few things out...I think he will be ready for tough minutes after that.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'll agree on RNH and Gordon, like I said earlier, but I don't know how you can list anyone else with that much certainty.

There really isn't any anecdotal(beyond the first 10-15 games) or statistical evidence to back-up your claim.

 

[guymez]

I'll agree on RNH and Gordon, like I said earlier, but I don't know how you can list anyone else with that much certainty.

There really isn't any anecdotal(beyond the first 10-15 games) or statistical evidence to back-up your claim.

Do you watch the games? I do and my eyes tell me that Yak is consistently out of position defensively and more often than not makes the wrong reads.

Every player I mentioned above is better defensively because of 1 reason...experience.

There is absolutely no need to rush Yak at this point....good god he hasn't even played 50 pro games yet.
He will figure things out and Eakins is a smart enough coach to create the conditions for Yak to succeed.
Playing tough minutes wont be on the radar because that is a recipe for failure.

 

[McDNicks17]

Not every player improves defensively with experience.

There's quite a few examples of that just in the players you listed above even.

 

[guymez]

Not every player improves defensively with experience.

There's quite a few examples of that just in the players you listed above even.

No player improves without experience...that is an indisputable fact.

BTW...I am still waiting for you to explain which players are worse than Yak defensively.

 

[McDNicks17]

No player improves without experience...that is an indisputable fact.

BTW...I am still waiting for you to explain which players are worse than Yak defensively.

A fact that doesn't back your point in the least.

If Player A has 10 years of NHL experience and hasn't improved beyond average defensively and Player B has 40 games of NHL experience and hasn't improved beyond average defensively, they're both still on the same level in that regard.


Read two posts back. My stance isn't that Yak is better defensively than anyone in the top6 or top9. It's that he isn't noticeably better or worse(other than RNH and Gordon, like I said earlier). If you disagree, you'll have to provide more than "I watched the games" to back up your side of the argument.

 

[guymez]

A fact that doesn't back your point in the least.

If Player A has 10 years of NHL experience and hasn't improved beyond average defensively and Player B has 40 games of NHL experience and hasn't improved beyond average defensively, they're both still on the same level in that regard.


Read two posts back. My stance isn't that Yak is better defensively than anyone in the top6 or top9. It's that he isn't noticeably better or worse(other than RNH and Gordon, like I said earlier). If you disagree, you'll have to provide more than "I watched the games" to back up your side of the argument.

The point being that a player will not improve without experience.

I articulated that Yak has major trouble with defensive reads and often is out of position. More so than any other top 9 player I watched last season. If you disagree thats fine...explain why?

I read all your posts and you have offered nothing of substance...you just keep repeating that you think Yak is better defensively than some top 9 players and have followed that up with comments that at best are ambiguous. You haven't even bothered to articulate which players except to name 2 centers which really shouldn't even be in the conversation. You even moved the goalposts from top 6 to top 9. No problem.

So I will make it easier for you....name the wingers in the top 9 (that you think) that are worse than Yak defensively and why.

 

[McDNicks17]

The point being that a player will not improve without experience.

I read all your posts and you have offered nothing of substance...you just keep repeating that you think Yak is better defensively than some top 9 players. You haven't even bothered to articulate which players except to name 2 centers which really shouldn't even be in the conversation. You even moved the goalposts from top 6 to top 9. No problem.

So I will make it easier for you....name the wingers in the top 9 that are worse then Yak defensively.

Again, a point that doesn't support your argument of experience always equalling better defensive ability...


I'll try to make it easier for you and repeat my stance for the third or fourth time...no one in the top6 or top9(outside of RNH and Gordon) are noticeably better or worse than Yak defensively.

You keep asking me to "name blah blah blah worse than Yak" when that completely contradicts the point I've been trying to make. I've said it three or four times now...no one is noticeably worse than Yak defensively in the top6 or top9. But at the same time, no one is noticeably better(excluding RNH and Gordon).

I hope five times the charm and you'll understand what I'm saying and argue my actual point rather than argue against your own incorrect interpretation of it.


As for substance, if Yak "struggled mighty defensively", as you said, you should be able to come up with something other than "I watched the games" to back that up.

 

[lere2001]

According to Tencer, Perron is practicing on a line with Boyd Gordon and Yakupov

 

[McDrai]

Perron/Gagner/Hemsky
Joenssu/Hall/Eberle
Omark/Gordon/Yakupov

Perron and Gagner seem to know eachother pretty well from juniors and their names are both french which should have a positive effect on their chemistry
Hall and Eberle have a lot of experience on the same line and Joenssu should be able to keep up. Another option is having Smyth on the left side so he can take faceoffs if Hall struggles but I just think he was horrible last year...
Third line can provide a lot of playmaking and scoring. Gordon is the anchor on the line with two offensive players in Yakupov and Omark. I think this could be a good combo as Omark is a pass first player while Yakupov.is a shoot first player

 

[IV XIV XCI]

Eager - Hall - Yakupov
Joensuu - Gagner - Eberle
Perron - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Jones

I think I like this option the most.

Cant have Hemsky on the 4th line plus he needs a guy with hands to play with so Perron fits the bill. Gordon stabilizes the line with 2-way awareness.

I think Eager on the first line could possibly re-spark his career. But he would have to learn his role on that line. Maybe show him some (good version of..) Isbister and Penner videos.

 

[guymez]

Again, a point that doesn't support your argument of experience always equalling better defensive ability...


I'll try to make it easier for you and repeat my stance for the third or fourth time...no one in the top6 or top9(outside of RNH and Gordon) are noticeably better or worse than Yak defensively.

You keep asking me to "name blah blah blah worse than Yak" when that completely contradicts the point I've been trying to make. I've said it three or four times now...no one is noticeably worse than Yak defensively in the top6 or top9. But at the same time, no one is noticeably better(excluding RNH and Gordon).

I hope five times the charm and you'll understand what I'm saying and argue my actual point rather than argue against your own incorrect interpretation of it.


As for substance, if Yak "struggled mighty defensively", as you said, you should be able to come up with something other than "I watched the games" to back that up.

Yes...5 posts of ambiguity on your part is enough.

All you do is repeat that no one is noticeably better than Yak defensively but fail to explain why.

Also, regarding Yak, watching a player is the only resource when the sample size is under 50 games. You expected me to dig up stats on a useless sample size.
If the reality of the small sample size eludes you then I guess thats your issue.

For reasons clearly only you understand you keep mentioning centres in your comparison of Yak and not 1 winger.

I detailed Yaks defensive weaknesses based on watching his game because stats are useless due to the small sample size...you detail nothing and offer an endless string of ambiguity.

No point in continuing this.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

This is probably crazy, but could the solution possibly be giving Marco Roy or Jujhar Khaira a 9 game tryout? Roy is a natural C, and Khaira had played C at the rookie tourney and could fit in at LW if Hall goes to C. Highly unlikely, but it's at least a discussion piece I guess.

Perron-Hall-Eberle
Khaira-Gagner-Yakupov

Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Perron-Roy-Yakupov

If not I think Omark gets a shot in there somewhere.

Only if they play well enough to earn the 9 game tryout. Also in Khaira's case, if he plays out of his mind and sticks to the team, we have that big, strong, physical 2-way center we've desired for years.

 

[McDNicks17]

Yes...5 posts of ambiguity on your part is enough.

All you do is repeat that no one is noticeably better than Yak defensively but fail to explain why.

Also, regarding Yak, watching a player is the only resource when the sample size is under 50 games. You expected me to dig up stats on a useless sample size.
If the reality of the small sample size eludes you then I guess thats your issue.

For reasons clearly only you understand you keep mentioning centres in your comparison of Yak and not 1 winger.

I detailed Yaks defensive weaknesses based on watching his game because stats are useless due to the small sample size...you detail nothing and offer an endless string of ambiguity.

No point in continuing this.

Are you going to tell me Hall, Smyth and Hemsky didn't make any dumb giveaways or Eberle and Jones didn't blow any assignments?

Your "detailed" analysis of Yak's shortcoming could be applied to any winger in the top9.


If someone saying that all six wingers in the top9 are basically equal defensively is too ambiguous for you, I agree, we should probably stop now. I don't want you to hurt your brain any more.

 

[guymez]

Are you going to tell me Hall, Smyth and Hemsky didn't make any dumb giveaways or Eberle and Jones didn't blow any assignments?

One more try and yes your inane argument is hurting my brain.

Again you move the goalposts because apparently you have nothing of substance to offer.
When did I say Hall and Eberle never made dumb mistakes. That is not relevant at all.

One of my points (which I will repeat once again) is that Hall and Eberle and Jones ( and whoever else you want to mention) have improved defensively after their first year. I bet you cant name 1 player on this team that has not improved defensively after their first year to back up your claim that not everyone does.

Your "detailed" analysis of Yak's shortcoming could be applied to any winger in the top9.


If someone saying that all six wingers in the top9 are basically equal defensively is too ambiguous for you, I agree, we should probably stop now. I wouldn't want you to hurt your brain any more.

Again...you have offered nothing that supports this. You haven't even bothered to suggest thats what your eyes have seen over the course of 50 games last season.

At least then we could disagree but you wont even take that step.

Makes a debate rather difficult when you continue to hide behind ambiguity.

 

[McDNicks17]

One more try and yes your inane argument is hurting my brain.

Again you move the goalposts because apparently you have nothing of substance to offer.
When did I say Hall and Eberle never made dumb mistakes. That is not relevant at all.

One of my points (which I will repeat once again) is that Hall and Eberle and Jones ( and whoever else you want to mention) have improved defensively after their first year. I bet you cant name 1 player on this team that has not improved defensively after their first year to back up your claim that not everyone does..

Your entire argument of Yak struggling defensively is based on your anecdotal "I watched the games" evidence. Anyone who watched the games also saw Hall, Eberle, Hemsky, Jones and Smyth doing the exact same things. Are you applying a double standard or are those mistakes given less weight because of the player's "experience"?

The Player A/Player B part was obviously an oversimplified example to show a point. Your argument was more experience always equals better defensive ability. It wasn't players always improve after their rookie season. There's countless numbers of players who have plateaued or regressed defensively as they've gained NHL experience. I should hope you can understand that without needing a list of examples.