Drake1588 said:Here's one opinion... The best bargains in this draft were Tukonen and Schwarz, both of whom were probably top-five players in the draft.
I can't really see how either Olesz or Tukonen were safer. Olesz was dropped at the WJC with a concussion. Concussions have proven to shorten & severely affect NHL careers. I think FL is taking just as big of a risk on Olesz as PHX is on Wheeler (though speaking to director of scouting for FL, Scott Luce, he seems very happy with him). I don't know the full story on Tukonen's injuries but quite a few teams passed on him so there had to be good reasons that he wasn't the BPA until #11 (and maybe he should've gone a few spots sooner but he didn't drop that far...maybe 4-5 spots). I can't remember the exact knock on Thelen but he was primarily an offensive d-man and maybe there were questions about his defensive capabilities. I highly doubt there were 40 players safer than Wheeler....just because their closer to the NHL doesn't make them potentially better. Olesz and Tukonen could develop into nothing more than 3rd liners so they have the same potential to bust as Wheeler or probably 40 other players in the draft not named Ovechkin or Malkin. Yes he was a reach but imagine if they did try to trade down to around #11 (just for an example) but a team like FL who is already stocked with plenty of young talent traded their pick to a team that wanted him just as bad (there were other teams looking at him) or FL even took him if Olesz had been selected at #5 (and can let him develop for 5 yrs because they don't need to rush him).db23 said:With all due respect to Wheeler's potential, how can you say he was a safer pick that a player like Olesz who has already played 3 seasons in the Czech Elite League which is similar in quality to the AHL? Not to mention the fact that Olesz has been as star in international tournaments for the past 3 years as well. Including the WJC this past winter. How can you say he is a safer pick than Lauri Tukonen who has a season in the SM Liiga and played well at both the U18 and U20 for his country, even though he is a bit younger than Wheeler? Or A.J. Thelen who was a D1 All American while Wheeler was still being recruited, even though they are the same age? I could go on and on through about 40 players that are safer choices than Wheeler.
RichPanther said:After Ovechkin, Malkin and maybe Barker, the rest was a total crap shoot. But PHX felt they saw the BPA at their position...for the future. There's always those rules about a draft...always draft the best player available, don't try to draft based on need, and expect to wait (no matter who it is) for your pick to develop. And they may have been a franchise that needed a lot of help but they also seem to be addressing some of it via free agency with the signings of O'Donnell, Devereaux & Ricci and adding Chimera via trade. If anything, Wheeler seems like the only guy to NOT be a potential bust among the group selected after him. He'll have plenty of time to develop and there doesn't seem to be pressure on him either to develop quickly (how many busts have been cause the kid was rushed). None of the available players were safer except possibly Montoya.
15+17=Cup said:hate to blow your mind but with the amount Malkin's stock rose this year he could have been first overall in 2003 too. Ovechkin was definitely the uncontested number one in 2003, but Malkin closed the gap considerably this year..Apparently there was a team (i forget which) that would have taken Malkin #1 instead of Ovechkin and you can't say that an NHL team has a hockey understanding problem.
Myself, I think the biggest 1st-round bargains were Tukonen at #11 and Schwarz at #17. This Robbie Schremp guy, I'm a huge fan of his but I can honestly say I was expecting him to fall like that because of his questionable "attitude". I do think he was a steal, but not a Tukonen or Schwarz type of steal. Another one rarely mentioned was Andrej Meszaros at #21. I was expecting him to go top-15 for sure...great pickup for Ottawa there.
Outside of the 1st round I say Enver Lisin at #50 (should've been a 1st rounder...), Kirill Lyamin at wherever he went/late 2nd round (another great pick for Ottawa...I think he was first round stuff) and Viktor Alexandrov at #84 (another great pick for STL, I think he could have gone somewhere in the 25-35 range).[/QUote
can't say that an NHL team has a hockey understanding problem? sure I can look at who the Sens drafted a while back Alex Daigle #1 overall Montreal Doug Wickenheiser #1 overall..DONT KNOW hockey!!!
Chimaera said:Whatever you're smoking pass some around...
You must be from Pittsburgh.
I hate to turn this into a Malkin v. Ovechkin thread, but you're asking for it...
One, he's not a full year younger. 2, I'm not sure how a concussion could be considered a positive thing. In any situation. I would think a concussion could only be considered a bad thing. What if they keep happening? (I hope they don't, but they can become chronic) Ovechkin (knock on wood) isn't facing that same situation. The point situation is a wash, both have put up good numbers, as both should. Ovechkin's done more in some places, Malkin in others. Your center idea is pretty solid for the most part, but look at who carried Calgary to the finals... definitely not a center. And you're overlooking the idea that Ovechkin has played center some. Ovechkin should become a good player, whether he'll be any less valuable just because he's not a center, is debateable.
And lastly on the character issue, what have you been reading? Though confident, (and I wouldn't see that as a negative) Ovechkin was extremely personable, outgoing, and for the most part it's hard to find a knock on him as far as character goes. Having met the guy, I think you've got the Pittsburgh goggles on.
nomorekids said:2001, nashville drafts lower than they ever have at #12...
dan hamhuis
i'll take that one
X-SHARKIE said:I believe he was just curious about the 2004 draft.
But yes Dan Hamhuis at 12 was a great great pick.
Anthony Stewart 25th overall in 2003....It well cause many teams headaches down the road