Finland isn't going well

[Faktisti*]

thats right!

im wondering here that finland hasnt many good hockey prospects and i'm not sure why. nowdays there aren't any good players like saku koivu or teemu selanne was before.

people say that finland creates very good 3. or 4. liners but not many good puck handling players. if u look at the juniors training sessions, u see that players are training too much playing systems and physical skills. players arent very talented anymore and thats not a problem only in finland because i gues that sweden has the same problem.

i hope that tha change will come soon or we have to see when good prospects like toni rajala and mikael granlund will both became jani rita looking players: fast but cant handle the puck.

comments.

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[Rexor]

Well, at least they haven't been relegated.

 

[SOLR]

I think all countries are faced with a cyclic development, look at sweden, they have been producing quite poor talents for 6-7 years and recently they have been great. Sure it shows less for the big powers of hockey, because theres so many players produced per year, but still they have their weak years.(Like this year.) Canada is in good shape for 2008 and 2009 draft, but 2007 is poor to say the least.

 

[Faktisti*]

Well, at least they haven't been relegated.

well i dont think theres such a problem in that country, because there comes so talented players like ruzicka or voracek.

..well it was still nice to win 4-1..

..wasnt it???

 

[An Ape called Yoko]

I think all countries are faced with a cyclic development, look at sweden, they have been producing quite poor talents for 6-7 years and recently they have been great. Sure it shows less for the big powers of hockey, because theres so many players produced per year, but still they have their weak years.(Like this year.) Canada is in good shape for 2008 and 2009 draft, but 2007 is poor to say the least.

Actually I´d like to say it hasn´t been that poor for Sweden those years... we have still produced lots of players with creativity and latebloom-potential. This is Finlands problem imo.. there are no creative players... Finlands juniorplayers skate well, hit well, and have nice two-way game - but wheres the creativity? Perttu Lindgren is the only i can think of among juniors, and he is quite far from Bäckström.

Even the extremely talented players born 83 in Finland, hasn´t really stepped up. Its all about big players who can skate well, hit well, and play a good twoway-game(hence drafted early) But i don´t see the creativity.

 

[SOLR]

Actually I´d like to say it hasn´t been that poor for Sweden those years... we have still produced lots of players with creativity and latebloom-potential. This is Finlands problem imo.. there are no creative players... Finlands juniorplayers skate well, hit well, and have nice two-way game - but wheres the creativity? Perttu Lindgren is the only i can think of among juniors, and he is quite far from Bäckström.

Even the extremely talented players born 83 in Finland, hasn´t really stepped up. Its all about big players who can skate well, hit well, and play a good twoway-game(hence drafted early) But i don´t see the creativity.

Oh I didnt say you didnt produced some gems, but most expert will tell you that sweden just got over a "weak" period and I agree.

 

[Chief Jokinen]

Actually I´d like to say it hasn´t been that poor for Sweden those years... we have still produced lots of players with creativity and latebloom-potential. This is Finlands problem imo.. there are no creative players... Finlands juniorplayers skate well, hit well, and have nice two-way game - but wheres the creativity? Perttu Lindgren is the only i can think of among juniors, and he is quite far from Bäckström.

Even the extremely talented players born 83 in Finland, hasn´t really stepped up. Its all about big players who can skate well, hit well, and play a good twoway-game(hence drafted early) But i don´t see the creativity.

Bäckström is nothing compared to Lindgren...

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Bäckström is nothing compared to Lindgren...

He meant the other Bäckström, the Swedish one.

 

[Faktisti*]

Actually I´d like to say it hasn´t been that poor for Sweden those years... we have still produced lots of players with creativity and latebloom-potential. This is Finlands problem imo.. there are no creative players... Finlands juniorplayers skate well, hit well, and have nice two-way game - but wheres the creativity? Perttu Lindgren is the only i can think of among juniors, and he is quite far from Bäckström.

Even the extremely talented players born 83 in Finland, hasn´t really stepped up. Its all about big players who can skate well, hit well, and play a good twoway-game(hence drafted early) But i don´t see the creativity.

well i dont see sweden so creativity players making country. playing style is pretty same looking in sweden and finland.

ppl might think that bäckstrom is like forsberg but the strongest weapon of forsberg is speed and good balance. is forsberg as creativy as pavel datsjuk? NO!

tell me few names from sweden who have succeeded in nhl and which are borned between years 1982-87? i gues that there is a big break between those years.

and tuomo ruutu, mikko koivu, kari lehtonen, joni pitkänen and jussi jokinen all born 1983 isnt only fast players, they have that famous talent alot. not only speed like jani rita..

 

[Joe MacMillan]

well i dont see sweden so creativity players making country. playing style is pretty same looking in sweden and finland.

ppl might think that bäckstrom is like forsberg but the strongest weapon of forsberg is speed and good balance. is forsberg as creativy as pavel datsjuk? NO!

tell me few names from sweden who have succeeded in nhl and which are borned between years 1982-87? i gues that there is a big break between those years.

and tuomo ruutu, mikko koivu, kari lehtonen, joni pitkänen and jussi jokinen all born 1983 isnt only fast players, they have that famous talent alot. not only speed like jani rita..

Please tell me you are kidding.

 

[Faktisti*]

Please tell me you are kidding.

haha what ever, that old fart is too old to play hockey anyways ;D

 

[TK79]

Dont agree completely. I'd say Finland has produced superior talent compared to Sweden during the last five years, if you look at guys who have been NHL rookies in the last 3-4 years. I'd say Kari Lehtonen, Joni Pitkänen, Tuomo Ruutu, Mikko Koivu, Jussi Jokinen and Valtteri Filppula are better than anyone Sweden has produced with the exception of Lundqvist. Sweden does have Bäckström and a few others coming up now though. But I agree that Finns deffinetly could have more creativity. I blame the junior programs, which coach kids to be two-way skating machines and ignore developing skill.

 

[Faktisti*]

Dont agree completely. I'd say Finland has produced superior talent compared to Sweden during the last five years, if you look at guys who have been NHL rookies in the last 3-4 years. I'd say Kari Lehtonen, Joni Pitkänen, Tuomo Ruutu, Mikko Koivu, Jussi Jokinen and Valtteri Filppula are better than anyone Sweden has produced with the exception of Lundqvist. Sweden does have Bäckström and a few others coming up now though. But I agree that Finns deffinetly could have more creativity. I blame the junior programs, which coach kids to be two-way skating machines and ignore developing skill.

EXACTLY!

i do also blame that damn junior program called nuori suomi. it really sucks! and i also blame kalervo kummola. in the year 1988 borned and older are all that what NUORI SUOMI has made: any player hasnt any strong skills. the talented players plays against not so talented players, coaches think only about winning, not about making creativy players like russians. too much physical training, too less talent. and the worst thing is the coaches dont motivate players to develop their skills and tricks. if u do mistake, then u gona pay for that, but the point is that if u wont do mistakes, u wont be a good player!

and if u can, read this:

http://www.urheilulehti.fi/jaakiekko/uutiset/article140552-1.html

 

[TK79]

EXACTLY!

i do also blame that damn junior program called nuori suomi. it really sucks! and i also blame kalervo kummola. in the year 1988 borned and older are all that what NUORI SUOMI has made: any player hasnt any strong skills. the talented players plays against not so talented players, coaches think only about winning, not about making creativy players like russians. too much physical training, too less talent. and the worst thing is the coaches dont motivate players to develop their skills and tricks. if u do mistake, then u gona pay for that, but the point is that if u wont do mistakes, u wont be a good player!

and if u can, read this:

http://www.urheilulehti.fi/jaakiekko/uutiset/article140552-1.html

Excellent article. Petteri Sihvonen, love him or hate him, at least he isn't afraid to speak his mind.

 

[aboriginal]

Finland isn't going well
comments.

turpa kiinni

finnish player development is doin just fine

 

[Peter25]

turpa kiinni

finnish player development is doin just fine

Yes, for the goalies. Otherwise its pretty bleak.

There is no reason for Finland to produce less talented players than say Czech Republic or even Russia.

 

[TK79]

Russia population 144 million vs Finland 5 millioin. You still think there is no reason for Finland to develop less talent than say Russia for example?

 

[Peter25]

Russia population 144 million vs Finland 5 millioin. You still think there is no reason for Finland to develop less talent than say Russia for example?

Chinese population is ten times bigger than Russia's so they should produce ten times more good hockey players than Russia. But they don't.

So it is not about population. It is about hockey resources, which Russia has about as much as Finland. Russia has a tad more registered players than Finland, but Finland has more hockey rinks than Russia.

 

[Faktisti*]

Chinese population is ten times bigger than Russia's so they should produce ten times more good hockey players than Russia. But they don't.

So it is not about population. It is about hockey resources, which Russia has about as much as Finland. Russia has a tad more registered players than Finland, but Finland has more hockey rinks than Russia.

trua, but in russia, theres much more world class junior coaches

 

[Talentless Practise*]

trua, but in russia, theres much more world class junior coaches

Don't think there's anything wrong with Finnish junior coaches per se. It's the competitiveness of junior leagues from very early ages that makes coaches play a system instead of allowing the kids to try new dekes etc.

 

[Peter25]

trua, but in russia, theres much more world class junior coaches

I don't know about that, but junior coaching is more respected in Russia than in Finland. Quality coaches in Russia want to coach junior when in Finland all the top coaches want to coach in the SM-liiga or Mestis. They also pay good money to junior coaches in Russia, but in Finland the junior coaches do it practically for free.

 

[Faktisti*]

I don't know about that, but junior coaching is more respected in Russia than in Finland. Quality coaches in Russia want to coach junior when in Finland all the top coaches want to coach in the SM-liiga or Mestis. They also pay good money to junior coaches in Russia, but in Finland the junior coaches do it practically for free.

thats just what i meant

 

[TK79]

Chinese population is ten times bigger than Russia's so they should produce ten times more good hockey players than Russia. But they don't.

So it is not about population. It is about hockey resources, which Russia has about as much as Finland. Russia has a tad more registered players than Finland, but Finland has more hockey rinks than Russia.

Compare the amount of registered hockey players in the two countries and you will see my point. The gap is probably not as big as the gap in general population, but I would venture a guess that Russia has ten times more registered hockey players than Finland.

 

[Peter25]

Compare the amount of registered hockey players in the two countries and you will see my point. The gap is probably not as big as the gap in general population, but I would venture a guess that Russia has ten times more registered hockey players than Finland.

That is not correct. Here are the official stats from the IIHF:

http://www.iihf.com/iihf/member/Survey of players.pdf


Finland has 60811 registered players, while Russia has 77202 registered players. Finland has 220 hockey rinks and Russia has only 142 hockey rinks(!).

So if you look at these numbers there is no reason for Finland to produce less skilled players than Russia.

For the comparison's sake North America has an overwhelming edge over the Europe in hockey resources. Canada has 552404 registered hockey players and 3000 hockey rinks. USA has 453299 registered hockey players and 1800 hockey rinks.

 

[SOLR]

Still i do believe the rinks and player count are to be taken in context.

1) Theres a lot more hockey players in russia that are out of the system. Its quite possibly the poorest country per capita in all of the hockey nations and thus "registered" players are probably a bad figure to look at.

2) The rinks number only count the number of arenas, in Russia(finland as well), like in Canada its possible to play hockey outside an arena for many months.