Olympics: Finland G Noora Raty announces retirement due to lack of women's pro league

[Jussi]

Copying my post from the semifinal thread:

Russia is the only place where women can make money. Karoliina Rantamäki has played at SKIF for a few years already and that has allowed her to buy a sportscar and live there in a 100 squaremeter apartment in a wealthy area. Mira Jalosuo plays there as well IIRC. Noora Räty tired to get a contract there as well but they suddenly changed their rules and banned foreign goalies so that their own goalies would get games before the Olympics. They then changed that to 60/40 rule that allowed her to sign with one club that lost their goalie due to injury and play the last two games of their season. If they change that again, she could in theory make money there.

A swede pointed out the difference between Sweden and USA: 3000 registered players compared to 60 000. Finland's head coach was commentating the semifinal on Finnish tv, the difference is already made up at a young age. In the US the girls get professional/good coaching and facilities almost when they start playing. Girls hockey doesn't get that kind of respect here. Ice times late at night, uneducated parents coaching teams (this is a problem even with the boys as well), patronizing/chauvinistic attitudes. This year was the first time the hockey federation put some effort into women's hockey (full time physical training coach in Tommi Pärmäkoski who trained Sebastian Vettel) but they should do a lot more.

 

[jonlin]

Half of the Olympic team is better than those 14-15 year old boys. Team USA plays against older boys and do just fine. Wickenweiser showed she CAN play with the boys. So your argument is invalid. Sure some of them can't hang. But many can. The biggest solution? Let them check. Let them be allowed to hit and go from there.

They need a league asap. And hopefully they get one.

Wickenheiser showed she could play in Finnish 2 division - 3rd highest league in Finland. When the team she played for got to Mestis(2 highest league in Finland), she got very little ice-time, because management thought she wasnt physical enough to play that high. So, basically the best woman in the world was able to play 3rd highest level in Finland. Kinda says everything doesnt it?

 

[Shwag33]

Pro means MONEY. From paying fans and advertisers. Aside from the olympics i'm sorry theres no way you're going to get people to care on a level that is needed for a professional league.

There's an abundance of hockey i'd watch before a womens pro league. It has nothing to do with women, but the quality of play.

 

[1Gold Standard]

NHL/NHLPA could and should finance such a venture with some of the profits from the planned World Cup.

IIHF/Hockey Canada/USA Hockey should also contribute. Hockey Canada is projecting an almost 30 million $ profit from the upcoming WJC.

 

[Minny Shinny]

I would like to see the NHL do what the NBA did and create a WNHL.

Start with maybe 6 teams, at least a couple in both Canada and the US. You don't need to worry about paying them millions, just start with a living wage that lets them actually pay rent, have lives, and be professionals.

Honestly the cost shouldn't be that high. Perhaps it wouldn't be fully self supporting right away, but the NHL should easily be able to throw a few million at it get it rolling.

Talk NBCSN into showing a game a week as a highlighted matchup to start gaining traction.

Heck, if you really want to use it to grow the sport elsewhere in the world have a requirement that teams need to have a certain amount, maybe 2 or 3, import players on their roster.

That's exactly what the professional women's soccer league did. As part of the allocation of the founding members from the US women's team, they also allocated a few of the main stars internationally to each original franchise.

 

[Minny Shinny]

Pro means MONEY. From paying fans and advertisers. Aside from the olympics i'm sorry theres no way you're going to get people to care on a level that is needed for a professional league.

There's an abundance of hockey i'd watch before a womens pro league. It has nothing to do with women, but the quality of play.

But that's the chicken versus the egg argument. There's quality hockey being played on the collegiate level in the US because the playing field is leveled. The same thing can't be said internationally because there's no place for international players to play, so in order to create more parity in the international game (and thusly grow the game internationally), you have to create a platform to allow more women access to the sport.

Is it a benefit to grow the game of hockey internationally among women? Yes, because hockey, male or female, could always benefit financially from a larger fan base. More attention it gets internationally, the more people will want to watch, learn, and eventually play the game.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long term gain. One just needs to find investors and shareholders interested in making that sacrifice.

 

[flyguy]

Starting up a legitimate professional women's league in North America is a very high risk, very low reward proposition. I don't think the NHL would take that kind of risk on, considering they need to focus on how to re-popularize their own league to get it back into contention of the Big 4.

The WNBA still exists solely because of the TV contact they have with ESPN, and the support of the NBA. What major TV network would likely shell out a contract for a women's hockey league? I don't think NBC would do it. Not sure what the rating look like for when the put on college hockey, but I don't think a women's league would draw better than that.

You also then have to factor in where do these teams play? I don't think they'd be able to afford leasing out the major arenas that the NBA and NHL teams play in. Then it comes down to are there smaller venues (5000-10000 seats) that allow for hockey to be played in major cities? I'm sure there are in Canada, but I'm not so sure there are in some of the US cities.

 

[Shwag33]

[/b]

But that's the chicken versus the egg argument. There's quality hockey being played on the collegiate level in the US because the playing field is leveled. The same thing can't be said internationally because there's no place for international players to play, so in order to create more parity in the international game (and thusly grow the game internationally), you have to create a platform to allow more women access to the sport.

Is it a benefit to grow the game of hockey internationally among women? Yes, because hockey, male or female, could always benefit financially from a larger fan base. More attention it gets internationally, the more people will want to watch, learn, and eventually play the game.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long term gain. One just needs to find investors and shareholders interested in making that sacrifice.

USA vs Canada Womens; is still very very slow; which is best on best. If it wasnt for the olympics I probably wouldnt watch.

 

[Jussi]

NHL/NHLPA could and should finance such a venture with some of the profits from the planned World Cup.

IIHF/Hockey Canada/USA Hockey should also contribute. Hockey Canada is projecting an almost 30 million $ profit from the upcoming WJC.

Hockey Canada and USA Hockey already help in Europe by sending coaches to help with skill development.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Hockey Canada and USA Hockey already help in Europe by sending coaches to help with skill development.

Sure they do. but everybody at all levels can do more.

 

[FlashyG]

Starting up a legitimate professional women's league in North America is a very high risk, very low reward proposition. I don't think the NHL would take that kind of risk on, considering they need to focus on how to re-popularize their own league to get it back into contention of the Big 4.

The WNBA still exists solely because of the TV contact they have with ESPN, and the support of the NBA. What major TV network would likely shell out a contract for a women's hockey league? I don't think NBC would do it. Not sure what the rating look like for when the put on college hockey, but I don't think a women's league would draw better than that.

You also then have to factor in where do these teams play? I don't think they'd be able to afford leasing out the major arenas that the NBA and NHL teams play in. Then it comes down to are there smaller venues (5000-10000 seats) that allow for hockey to be played in major cities? I'm sure there are in Canada, but I'm not so sure there are in some of the US cities.

Actually there has never been a better time in Canada to attempt a venture like this.

TSN just lost broadcast rights to hockey for the foreseeable future, so there is a network that could take a chance on women's hockey.

Even if the US doesn't get behind the league, a small league could easily be run in Canada where the best women could have a place to play professionally.

I doubt they'd need to use arena's as big as NHL rinks, but there are tons of CHL, and AHL rinks available to be used, and those smaller arena's are always looking for events to keep their seats filled.

The only way the product is going to get better, and more competitive is if more of these women get a chance to play the game for a living instead of playing the game in their spare time.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Are there any women leagues?
Is so where?
What is the best salary?

 

[intangible]

Why do women deserve a professional league? Professional sports is about one thing only: entertainment. If it isn't entertaining, people will not watch it, and it therefore isn't viable.

The best women's hockey team in the entire world right now cannot even manage a winning record against Midget AAA teams comprised of 15-17 year old boys. Boys. So who the hell is going to pay real money to go watch what would otherwise be considered terrible, amateur hockey?

Hey, I wish women were better, too, but they simply aren't. Not right now. And the real top women's player, Hayley Wickenheiser, who did manage 43 games in third/fourth-rate (if not worse) leagues, still couldn't manage to get any higher.

Personally, I think the worst part is the media's glorification of Manon Rheaume, who clearly only made an NHL training camp and 26 second- and third-rate pro games as a novelty. Someday I do think a woman goalie has a chance at making the pros legitimately, but the media will continue to focus on that farce, which arguably has hurt more than helped women's hockey overall.

But, again, my biggest point is that until the best women in the world can beat mere boys, I don't see how they can survive with a pro league. Just because they're the best of their gender in the entire world, that doesn't mean they're deserving of a professional league, whose entire viability is not based on equality or merit but financial viability. I don't see how that's possible with such poor talent.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

I could say this is a good idea to not seem like a jerk, but I would never go to a game. Boring...

 

[Kharkov]

Women should watch more women sports. Most of them dont watch women sports.

 

[ThatGuy22]

You also then have to factor in where do these teams play? I don't think they'd be able to afford leasing out the major arenas that the NBA and NHL teams play in. Then it comes down to are there smaller venues (5000-10000 seats) that allow for hockey to be played in major cities? I'm sure there are in Canada, but I'm not so sure there are in some of the US cities.

Most American states that would seem like the likely destinations for a Womens hockey team have the facilities, because those states have college hockey teams which play in smaller venues. Minnesota for instance has Mariucci Arena(10,000) and Rider Arena(4,000)

 

[Minny Shinny]

USA vs Canada Womens; is still very very slow; which is best on best. If it wasnt for the olympics I probably wouldnt watch.

Well, yes, if you're comparing it to men's hockey it is slow. But why compare it to men's hockey? They're two different entities. People wanting women's hockey to be exactly like men's hockey are going to be disappointed and you're right, you'll never watch it.

There's room for two different styles of hockey though. Just because you prefer one style and won't watch another style doesn't mean others feel the same, and those other folks start their enjoyment by not expecting the same style of play between the two types of games.

 

[CanadianHockey]

CWHL anyone? About as professional as it gets for womens hockey right now. Currently has 4 teams and investments from the Toronto Maple Leafs and Calgary Flames. Someone should seriously point Noora Raty towards Canada. She'd be welcomed with open arms I'm sure. Florence Shelling was once interested in coming over for it. Now Shelling plays in Mens Tier 3 league in Switzerland. If Schelling can play Men's Tier 3 then so can Noora Raty.

This was my first thought, too. The only thing about the CWHL that isn't professional is the lack of player salaries.

 

[Hurt]

They could be, if they want to increase viewership and the fanbase among women. It took a while for the WNBA to gain in popularity, but the investment seems to have paid off for the most part.

Hasn't the attendance for the NBA been going down for the last 15 years or so? By a lot?

 

[Minny Shinny]

Starting up a legitimate professional women's league in North America is a very high risk, very low reward proposition. I don't think the NHL would take that kind of risk on, considering they need to focus on how to re-popularize their own league to get it back into contention of the Big 4.

The WNBA still exists solely because of the TV contact they have with ESPN, and the support of the NBA. What major TV network would likely shell out a contract for a women's hockey league? I don't think NBC would do it. Not sure what the rating look like for when the put on college hockey, but I don't think a women's league would draw better than that.

You also then have to factor in where do these teams play? I don't think they'd be able to afford leasing out the major arenas that the NBA and NHL teams play in. Then it comes down to are there smaller venues (5000-10000 seats) that allow for hockey to be played in major cities? I'm sure there are in Canada, but I'm not so sure there are in some of the US cities.

Off the top of my head, there's 4 cities (Mpls/St. Paul, Boston, Seattle & Denver) that have mid-size indoor hockey arenas, either independently operated or associated with a college/university.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

A women's league won't survive without the NHL's help.

Well Bettman likes to copy everything else about the NBA so why not this?

And I agree with others that a women's pro hockey league could help grow the NHL fanbase. To what extent, I'm not sure, but I strongly believe it would help not just women's hockey but the NHl.

Would be interesting to think where they would put WNHL franchises. My first instinct was thinking why don't they just make 6 Original 6 WNHL franchises but it would seem wrong to not have a Minnesota WNHL franchise. And maybe there could be something gained by putting WNHL franchises in places where no NHL team is like Madison/Milwaukee? Just kind of thinking out loud.

 

[sandysan]

I agree...Maybe the NHL could borrow a page from the NBA, and create the "WNHL" League. By doing so, they can possibly grow the women's game enough to allow for other countries to better represent in international play than they are now.

it is a shame, and its probably not fair but even if the nhl got fully behind this, does anyone think that it ends up being a perrenial albatross on the NHL ?

 

[MuckOG]

Women should watch more women sports. Most of them dont watch women sports.

The crowd at WNBA games is largely women and girls. I guess the same would hold true for something like a WNHL.

I think a team hosted in Minnesota would work, and could probably draw 2,000-3,000 fans a game.

 

[MTLAzzurri]

NHL/NHLPA could and should finance such a venture with some of the profits from the planned World Cup.

IIHF/Hockey Canada/USA Hockey should also contribute. Hockey Canada is projecting an almost 30 million $ profit from the upcoming WJC.

Why should the NHL and NHLPA waste their money on a women's league? They're not a charity.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Why do women deserve a professional league? Professional sports is about one thing only: entertainment. If it isn't entertaining, people will not watch it, and it therefore isn't viable.

The best women's hockey team in the entire world right now cannot even manage a winning record against Midget AAA teams comprised of 15-17 year old boys. Boys. So who the hell is going to pay real money to go watch what would otherwise be considered terrible, amateur hockey?

Hey, I wish women were better, too, but they simply aren't. Not right now. And the real top women's player, Hayley Wickenheiser, who did manage 43 games in third/fourth-rate (if not worse) leagues, still couldn't manage to get any higher.

Personally, I think the worst part is the media's glorification of Manon Rheaume, who clearly only made an NHL training camp and 26 second- and third-rate pro games as a novelty. Someday I do think a woman goalie has a chance at making the pros legitimately, but the media will continue to focus on that farce, which arguably has hurt more than helped women's hockey overall.

But, again, my biggest point is that until the best women in the world can beat mere boys, I don't see how they can survive with a pro league. Just because they're the best of their gender in the entire world, that doesn't mean they're deserving of a professional league, whose entire viability is not based on equality or merit but financial viability. I don't see how that's possible with such poor talent.

Women's hockey is a different sport than men's hockey. I have no issue with folks that don't like women's hockey and are adamantly opposed to ever watching it. But I am a bit baffled by people who are adamantly opposed to a women's hockey pro league existing.

To me it's like being opposed to something like the SPHL existing simply because SPHL teams might not be good enough to beat the top junior team or something.

More people playing and spending money on and getting exposed to hockey is a good thing.