Favourite #135 - Wayne Gretzky vs. Mario Lemieux

[GFS]

This is a favourite player and not best player poll. Bracket winners advance to playoffs.

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Gordie Howe 15 Maurice Richard 10 Luc Robitaille 10 Wayne Gretzky 31 Jari Kurri 18 Brett Hull 14 Pavel Bure 32 Alexei Kovalev 7 Steve Yzerman 49 Wendel Clark 11 Mario Lemieux 24 Brendan Shanahan 7 Ron Francis 19 Adam Oates 18 Mike Modano 9 Alexander Mogilny 25	Gordie Howe 22 Wayne Gretzky 32 Jari Kurri 17 Pavel Bure 28 Steve Yzerman 36 Mario Lemieux 51 Ron Francis 15 Alexander Mogilny 20	Wayne Gretzky 33 Pavel Bure 26 Mario Lemieux 38 Alexander Mogilny 14	Wayne Gretzky Mario Lemieux

Spoiler

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Patrik Laine 55 Nikita Kucherov 77 John Tavares 14 Artemi Panarin 50 Auston Matthews 18 Aleksander Barkov 27 Nathan MacKinnon 18 Leon Draisaitl 15 David Pastrnak 25 Mikko Rantanen 41 Mitch Marner 16 Kirill Kaprizov 36 Brayden Point 47 Mathew Barzal 13 Connor McDavid 84 Sebastian Aho 29	Nikita Kucherov 20 Artemi Panarin 39 Aleksander Barkov 22 Nathan MacKinnon 48 Mikko Rantanen 24 Kirill Kaprizov 26 Brayden Point 18 Connor McDavid 37	Artemi Panarin 17 Nathan MacKinnon 30 Kirill Kaprizov 21 Connor McDavid 25	Nathan MacKinnon Connor McDavid

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Henrik Sedin 62 Ryan Getzlaf 49 Claude Giroux 37 Patrick Kane 42 Phil Kessel 32 Steven Stamkos 27 Alexander Ovechkin 105 Ilya Kovalchuk 25 Sidney Crosby 27 Nicklas Bäckström 12 Joe Pavelski 9 Henrik Zetterberg 31 Anze Kopitar 51 Jonathan Toews 8 Patrice Bergeron 48 Evgeni Malkin 61	Henrik Sedin 80 Patrick Kane 51 Phil Kessel 22 Alexander Ovechkin 30 Sidney Crosby 55 Henrik Zetterberg 32 Anze Kopitar 23 Evgeni Malkin 18	Henrik Sedin 50 Alexander Ovechkin 72 Sidney Crosby 87 Anze Kopitar 47	Alexander Ovechkin Sidney Crosby

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Peter Forsberg 55 Eric Lindros 15 Pavel Datsyuk 51 Joe Thornton 12 Teemu Selänne 46 Mats Sundin 17 Markus Näslund 25 Marian Hossa 24 Joe Sakic 55 Sergei Fedorov 20 Jarome Iginla 66 Martin St. Louis 40 Paul Kariya 26 Patrik Elias 7 Jaromír Jágr 80 Marian Gaborik 15	Peter Forsberg 41 Pavel Datsyuk 26 Teemu Selanne 26 Markus Naslund 12 Joe Sakic 34 Jarome Iginla 17 Paul Kariya 34 Jaromir Jagr 51	Peter Forsberg 58 Teemu Selanne 61 Joe Sakic 24 Jaromir Jagr 31	Teemu Selanne Jaromir Jagr

Qualifying Round	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Cale Makar 42 Quinn Hughes 7	Adam Fox 29 Cale Makar 167 Erik Karlsson 28 Drew Doughty 18 Shea Weber 62 Kris Letang 43 Victor Hedman 43 Roman Josi 23	Cale Makar 45 Erik Karlsson 34 Shea Weber 37 Victor Hedman 33	Cale Makar 45 Shea Weber 28

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Bobby Orr 24 Denis Potvin 3 Paul Coffey 21 Brian Leetch 8 Vladimir Konstantinov 13 Rob Blake 11 Chris Chelios 9 Chris Pronger 19 Ray Bourque 36 Al MacInnis 25 Nicklas Lidström 86 Scott Niedermayer 33 Zdeno Chara 66 Andrei Markov 31 Dustin Byfuglien 47 Brent Burns 21	Bobby Orr 23 Paul Coffey 8 Vladimir Konstantinov 37 Chris Pronger 35 Ray Bourque 65 Nicklas Lidström 82 Zdeno Chara 60 Dustin Byfuglien 43	Bobby Orr 23 Vladimir Konstantinov 13 Nicklas Lidström 61 Zdeno Chara 22	Bobby Orr 26 Nicklas Lidström 22

Qualifying Round	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
John Gibson 16 Carter Hart 3 Robin Lehner 13 Jacob Markström 28 Frederik Andersen 7 Connor Hellebuyck 12	Carey Price 41 John Gibson 16 Tuukka Rask 43 Jacob Markström 17 Andrei Vasilevskiy 41 Connor Hellebuyck 13 Thatcher Demko 51 Igor Shesterkin 33	Carey Price 18 Tuukka Rask 12 Andrei Vasilevskiy 51 Thatcher Demko 27	Carey Price 83 Andrei Vasilevskiy 48

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Kari Lehtonen 18 Antti Niemi 9 Roberto Luongo 39 Ryan Miller 8 Ilya Bryzgalov 49 Craig Anderson 24 Jean-Sebastien Giguere 25 Niklas Bäckström 12 Pekka Rinne 52 Henrik Lundqvist 61 Cory Schneider 31 Braden Holtby 27 Jonathan Quick 31 Corey Crawford 10 Marc-Andre Fleury 21 Sergei Bobrovsky 9	Kari Lehtonen 11 Roberto Luongo 32 Ilya Bryzgalov 40 Jean-Sebastien Giguere 36 Henrik Lundqvist 54 Cory Schneider 21 Jonathan Quick 14 Marc-Andre Fleury 32	Roberto Luongo 50 Ilya Bryzgalov 22 Henrik Lundqvist 38 Marc-Andre Fleury 24	Roberto Luongo 14 Henrik Lundqvist 10

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Dominik Hasek 94 Chris Osgood 8 Olaf Kölzig 47 Felix Potvin 46 Evgeni Nabokov 32 Dan Cloutier 7 Tomas Vokoun 14 Martin Brodeur 25 Curtis Joseph 26 Dwayne Roloson 5 Nikolai Khabibulin 43 Tim Thomas 22 Miikka Kiprusoff 102 Marty Turco 14 Patrick Roy 52 José Théodore 15	Dominik Hasek 67 Olaf Kolzig 14 Evgeni Nabokov 34 Martin Brodeur 57 Curtis Joseph 23 Nikolai Khabibulin 24 Miikka Kiprusoff 34 Patrick Roy 19	Dominik Hasek 123 Martin Brodeur 45 Nikolai Khabibulin 14 Miikka Kiprusoff 31	Dominik Hasek 53 Miikka Kiprusoff 29

Round of 16	Quarterfinals	Semifinals	Final
Terry Sawchuk 19 Glenn Hall 6 Jacques Plante 9 Tony Esposito 5 Ken Dryden 21 Vladislav Tretiak 29 Kelly Hrudey 7 Grant Fuhr 44 John Vanbiesbrouck 25 Mike Vernon 18 Ron Hextall 18 Ed Belfour 34 Tom Barrasso 9 Arturs Irbe 48 Kirk McLean 23 Mike Richter 32	Terry Sawchuk 15 Jacques Plante 11 Vladislav Tretiak 33 Grant Fuhr 18 John Vanbiesbrouck 6 Ed Belfour 18 Arturs Irbe 15 Mike Richter 5	Terry Sawchuk 19 Vladislav Tretiak 16 Ed Belfour 34 Arturs Irbe 33	Terry Sawchuk 10 Ed Belfour 5

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[tarheelhockey]

Of course this would be the final. After 40 years, it's still the biggest debate in hockey.

I recognize Wayne's scoreboard superiority, but this is about "favorite" so it's Mario all day.

 

[centipede2233]

I voted for Mario. He has been with the same organization for over 35 years. Bought the team when it was in turmoil. I’d even argue Mario Lemieux means more to Pittsburgh then Geordie Howe means to Detroit. Not one nhl Player in the history means more to their respective team then Mario has to the pens. I voted Mario

 

[McJedi]

Gretzky. Easy choice.

 

[banks]

Gretzky.

 

[I am not exposed]

Gretzky by a mile.

 

[tfwnogf]

that guy that let crosby stay at his house vs biznasty's friend

i take the ladder

 

[Chairman Maouth]

As I just mentioned in another thread, they are both bona fide superstars. They transcended the game and there are only a small handful of players who ever did that, but I gotta go with Gretzky.

 

[tapi]

Mario was the superior player. If not for his cancer and back problems, he would have done away easily with most of Gretzky's records. Even coming back after a three-year hiatus in the early 2000's in his late 30's he was the best player in the league (but unfortunately missed a lot of games due to injuries). Thus, he achieved dominance spanning three decades. At the same age, Gretzky was scoring 9 goals per season.

 

[Video Nasty]

Mario was the superior player. If not for his cancer and back problems, he would have done away easily with most of Gretzky's records. Even coming back after a three-year hiatus in the early 2000's in his late 30's he was the best player in the league (but unfortunately missed a lot of games due to injuries). Thus, he achieved dominance spanning three decades. At the same age, Gretzky was scoring 9 goals per season.

There’s a lot faulty with this stance, but I’ll settle on highlighting your purposefully misleading last statement.

Gretzky was 38 when he scored 9 goals and 62 points in 70 games during his final season.

Lemieux at age 38 scored 1 goal and 9 points in 10 games.

So your last sentence should read: “At the same age, Gretzky was scoring 9 goals per season while Lemieux was scoring 1 goal per season.”

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Gotta be mario

 

[tapi]

There’s a lot faulty with this stance, but I’ll settle on highlighting your purposefully misleading last statement.

Gretzky was 38 when he scored 9 goals and 62 points in 70 games during his final season.

Lemieux at age 38 scored 1 goal and 9 points in 10 games.

So your last sentence should read: “At the same age, Gretzky was scoring 9 goals per season while Lemieux was scoring 1 goal per season.”

Basically only people who can only look at stats totals say Wayne > Mario. And even most of them have to concede that Mario was the more dominant player, while claiming that Gretzky was yet "better" by the virtue of his records and higher totals.

The reality however, is that Mario was the statistically more productive player, having both better p/gp and g/gp than Wayne, despite having around 1/4 or more of his prime taken away by his cancer and injuries. It would be even more lopsided if he didn't fall ill.

Mario also played well into his 40' after his return, and dominated the league even at an advanced age, unlike Wayne, who was totally washed up at 37. Had Gretzky continued as long, he would have not exceeded 40 points (and I'm being generous), judging by his last season.

In the mid-80's, which people bring up a lot, Wayne had a full all-star team backing him up, while Mario was playing with Mike Bullard and Warren Young. If we were to compare it to today, Wayne had prime Karlson, Zinabejev, Pastrnak, and many others backing him up, while Mario had Zach Hyman and Nino Neiderraiter. It can be said safely that Mario did more with less, all factors taken into consideration.

There is no question, that had Mario stayed as healthy as Wayne, and with the teams reversed, that he would have easily smashed the vast majority of Gretzky's records. One can argue that statistically Gretzky had the better career, but as for who was the better player, it is not close.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Basically only people who can only look at stats totals say Wayne > Mario.

Mario was the statistically more productive player, having bothbetter p/gp and g/gp than Wayne, despite having around 1/4 or more of his prime taken away by his cancer and injuries. It would be even more lopsided if he didn't fall ill.

Mario also played well into his 40' after his return, and dominated the league even at an advanced age, unlike Wayne, who was totally washed up at 37. Had Gretzky continued as long, he would have not exceeded 40 points (and I'm being generous), judging by his last season.

In the mid-80's, which people bring up a lot, Wayne had a full all-star team backing him up, while Mario was playing with Mike Bullard and Warren Young. If we were to compare it to today, Wayne had prime Karlson, Zinabejev, Pastrnak, and many others backing him up, while Mario had Zach Hyman and Nino Neiderraiter. It can be said safely that Mario did more with less, all factors taken into consideration.

There is no question, that had Mario stayed as healthy as Wayne, and with the teams reversed, that he would have easily smashed the vast majority of Gretzky's records. One can argue that statistically Gretzky had the better career, but as for who was the better player, it is not close.

You’re absolutely right, it’s not close because it’s Gretzky.

Unlike Lemieux, he doesn’t need what ifs to prop him up.

 

[tapi]

You’re absolutely right, it’s not close because it’s Gretzky.

Unlike Lemieux, he doesn’t need what ifs to prop him up.

You can keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel happy

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

You can keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel happy

Try explaining how Lemieux is better without using what ifs.

You can’t.

 

[tapi]

Try explaining how Lemieux is better without using what ifs.

You can’t.

Better p/gp, better g/gp, despite illness and worse teammates, and despite playing unto his 40's. That's pretty clear cut. He was the more dominant, and better, player. Gretzky scored more points, and got more awards. But was otherwise inferior.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You’re absolutely right, it’s not close because it’s Gretzky.

Unlike Lemieux, he doesn’t need what ifs to prop him up.

Nice try. Lemieux>gretzky

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Nice try. Lemieux>gretzky

Based on what?

Once again: it’s not records. It’s not hardware.

It’s what ifs. It’s fantasy.

Nice try though. I’ve challenged you before to argue Lemieux over Gretzky without using words “if”, “healthy” or “pace” and you’ve always shirked it.

Better p/gp, better g/gp, despite illness and worse teammates, and despite playing unto his 40's. That's pretty clear cut. He was the more dominant, and better, player. Gretzky scored more points, and got more awards. But was otherwise inferior.

Inferior lol. I like how you leave out the only time Lemieux took off was when he had guys like Coffey, Jagr and Francis on the team.

Points per game really favors Lemieux considering he didn’t play as many games. It’s pace. Not actual results.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

I'm one who likes to argue that Lemieux's potential was higher than Gretzky's but regarding this topic I choose Gretzky with no hesitation.

Back when I was a kid Gretzky was like God playing with mere mortals. Even hearing him talk felt like a special moment.

And there are quite a few players I would choose over Lemieux here.

 

[Rengorlex]

Basically only people who can only look at stats totals say Wayne > Mario. And even most of them have to concede that Mario was the more dominant player, while claiming that Gretzky was yet "better" by the virtue of his records and higher totals.

The reality however, is that Mario was the statistically more productive player, having both better p/gp and g/gp than Wayne, despite having around 1/4 or more of his prime taken away by his cancer and injuries. It would be even more lopsided if he didn't fall ill.

Mario also played well into his 40' after his return, and dominated the league even at an advanced age, unlike Wayne, who was totally washed up at 37. Had Gretzky continued as long, he would have not exceeded 40 points (and I'm being generous), judging by his last season.

In the mid-80's, which people bring up a lot, Wayne had a full all-star team backing him up, while Mario was playing with Mike Bullard and Warren Young. If we were to compare it to today, Wayne had prime Karlson, Zinabejev, Pastrnak, and many others backing him up, while Mario had Zach Hyman and Nino Neiderraiter. It can be said safely that Mario did more with less, all factors taken into consideration.

There is no question, that had Mario stayed as healthy as Wayne, and with the teams reversed, that he would have easily smashed the vast majority of Gretzky's records. One can argue that statistically Gretzky had the better career, but as for who was the better player, it is not close.

Pretty much everything you stated here is factually wrong.

 

[snipes]

The Great One.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Mario was a force of nature and is my favorite player ever

Best player I've seen

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Points per game really favors Lemieux considering he didn’t play as many games. It’s pace. Not actual results.

Agreed. Points per game is a strange argument to make considering:

- Gretzky has the higher career PPG in the regular season. Granted, it's close - but Lemieux played only 170 games after age 31, while Gretzky played 479 games. Despite this disadvantage, Gretzky is still ahead.

- Gretzky has the higher career PPG in the playoffs (where it's not close at all).

- Gretzky has the two highest seasons all-time in terms of PPG, and seven of the top ten (Lemieux has two).

- Gretzky has the best playoff run all-time in terms of PPG (and five of the top ten - Lemieux has one).

(It's totally fine, of course, for someone to have Lemieux as their favourite, but that doesn't change the reality of who was more productive).

 

[JackSlater]

Basically only people who can only look at stats totals say Wayne > Mario. And even most of them have to concede that Mario was the more dominant player, while claiming that Gretzky was yet "better" by the virtue of his records and higher totals.

The reality however, is that Mario was the statistically more productive player, having both better p/gp and g/gp than Wayne, despite having around 1/4 or more of his prime taken away by his cancer and injuries. It would be even more lopsided if he didn't fall ill.

Mario also played well into his 40' after his return, and dominated the league even at an advanced age, unlike Wayne, who was totally washed up at 37. Had Gretzky continued as long, he would have not exceeded 40 points (and I'm being generous), judging by his last season.

In the mid-80's, which people bring up a lot, Wayne had a full all-star team backing him up, while Mario was playing with Mike Bullard and Warren Young. If we were to compare it to today, Wayne had prime Karlson, Zinabejev, Pastrnak, and many others backing him up, while Mario had Zach Hyman and Nino Neiderraiter. It can be said safely that Mario did more with less, all factors taken into consideration.

There is no question, that had Mario stayed as healthy as Wayne, and with the teams reversed, that he would have easily smashed the vast majority of Gretzky's records. One can argue that statistically Gretzky had the better career, but as for who was the better player, it is not close.

I don't really have a preference between Gretzky and Lemieux in terms of favourite, but you're really going to say that Lemieux was the "statistically more productive player" than Gretzky? Gretzky is far and away the most productive player in hockey history. You can argue that Lemieux is more talented or that if he had perfect health he may have done whatever, but we very clearly know that Gretzky was more productive. Their careers are over... and Gretzky produced a lot more.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Super Mario all day