F Daniil Gushchin (2020, 76th, SJS)

[themelkman]

It's funny how (nearly) every NA scout fails at evaluating Russians. Easy to check for evrybody to see. When they start drafting Russians somewhere around where they should be drafted we might stop laughing at their disabilities. Until then thay can "love" Guschin over other russian prospects all they want.

That doesnt answer my question, how much Gush have you watched since he left Russia? I know those guys have seen plenty.

Dylan is a pro who watches more KHL, VHL and MHL games than you could imagine and he said this. This roster is not well constructed

 

[Atas2000]

That doesnt answer my question, how much Gush have you watched since he left Russia? I know those guys have seen plenty.

Dylan is a pro who watches more KHL, VHL and MHL games than you could imagine and he said this, it was a plain bad pick.

The key question here was why did Team Russia decide to not pick him for the WJC. And the answer is simply Team Russia's coaches also did not have the opportunity to watch him. And with limited information what grounds should they have picked him on? Stats are not impressive(Petrov makes a much better case for example). Trusting NA scouts? They are idiots. The guy you quoted literally has no clue in the very tweet you quoted. His list of names is so awful it is actually funny.

 

[Mattb124]

Seems like there could be a separate thread for debating Russian WJC selections rather than obliterating this one.

 

[wings5]

Reminds me of Sergei Tolchinsky

 

[DatDude44]

On skills alone Guschin isn't good enough. He's a mediocre. Maybe he couldve won a spot if the Canada-Russia series was played, but so is life.

Guschin used to be way better than Pashin, but since going to North America Guschin has fallen off a cliff. Pashin has been more impressive in international play.
Either way beyond Chibrikov, Khusnutdinov, Michkov and Yurov, the wings are sort of interchangable. Guschin's ommission isn't that big of a deal.

How has he fallen off a Cliff?

 

[Zine]

How has he fallen off a Cliff?

I already posted why earlier in the thread:

He used to be our best 2002; regularly playing with the 2001s. Since then he hasn’t looked overly special in any international tournament for his own age group including the Hlinka and u19wjc where he was put in a scoring role.


Guschin used to be an electric offensive threat at the highest levels for his age; playing with guys like Podkolzin and Amirov a year older.

Today he’d be a depth scorer/energy guy at the u20 if in consideration. He’s just not skilled enough anymore for top 2 line wing duty.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I already posted why earlier in the thread:

He used to be our best 2002; regularly playing with the 2001s. Since then he hasn’t looked overly special in any international tournament for his own age group including the Hlinka and u19wjc where he was put in a scoring role.


Guschin used to be an electric offensive threat at the highest levels for his age; playing with guys like Podkolzin and Amirov a year older.

Today he’d be a depth scorer/energy guy at the u20 if in consideration. He’s just not skilled enough anymore for top 2 line wing duty.

He has 176 points in 161 games in NA. While the USHL isn't the best league in the world, he was very good there, and has scored at a 1.27 points/game pace since his rookie season in the US. What were you expecting him to do by this time, because he's still only 19. Sure he's not a top pick in a draft year level of talent like his early days, but he's still a very skilled scorer.

I think the fact that you compare a 3rd round pick to Podkolzin and Amirov who went 10th and 15th overall (and are more or less a year older than him) means he is skilled.

 

[Zine]

He has 176 points in 161 games in NA. While the USHL isn't the best league in the world, he was very good there, and has scored at a 1.27 points/game pace since his rookie season in the US. What were you expecting him to do by this time, because he's still only 19. Sure he's not a top pick in a draft year level of talent like his early days, but he's still a very skilled scorer.

I think the fact that you compare a 3rd round pick to Podkolzin and Amirov who went 10th and 15th overall (and are more or less a year older than him) means he is skilled.

I was hopeful for a trajectory similar to our other elite players. Never happened.
Unfortunately he fell off a cliff relative to the level he was previously at.
Now we're left discussing whether he or Pashin is better for a depth scoring role.

It doesn't mean he's void of talent however. Still a solid player.

 

[themelkman]

How has he fallen off a Cliff?

They havent seen him play for three years, but if he actually was good it wouldnt help their narrative.

 

[one2gamble]

The problem is he didn't grow 6 inches between 17 and 19

 

[Zine]

They havent seen him play for three years, but if he actually was good it wouldnt help their narrative.

He played the Sochi Open this August against KHL teams. But of course you wouldnt know that.

 

[DatDude44]

I already posted why earlier in the thread:

He used to be our best 2002; regularly playing with the 2001s. Since then he hasn’t looked overly special in any international tournament for his own age group including the Hlinka and u19wjc where he was put in a scoring role.


Guschin used to be an electric offensive threat at the highest levels for his age; playing with guys like Podkolzin and Amirov a year older.

Today he’d be a depth scorer/energy guy at the u20 if in consideration. He’s just not skilled enough anymore for top 2 line wing duty.

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about if you think Daniil Guschin would be an "energy guy" and doesn't have the skill for a top 6 junior winger...... his skill didn't diminish lol. he hasn't been coached in 3 years and that's the real problem, he's now behind other guys in his overall development, but he's still an extremely talented and extremely skilled hockey player....don't believe me? look up his goals all last season..

 

[De Montreal]

Both sides of this argument are actually bringing good points and I believe you guys should just agree to meet in the middle

 

[Zine]

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about if you think Daniil Guschin would be an "energy guy" and doesn't have the skill for a top 6 junior winger...... his skill didn't diminish lol. he hasn't been coached in 3 years and that's the real problem, he's now behind other guys in his overall development, but he's still an extremely talented and extremely skilled hockey player....don't believe me? look up his goals all last season..

That would certainly explain why he's fallen off a cliff.
So what's going on with his development in North America? Why the hell isn't he being coached? That's just beyond inexcusable.

And no, his former skill level is gone. You can't just miss 3 straight years of development and get it all back. Not at this crucial age. Doesn't work that way.


I've said it all along....he's a good player. It's just a shame he's not an elite talent anymore.
Such a needless waste of talent if the reason is bad hockey instruction.

 

[one2gamble]

That would certainly explain why he's fallen off a cliff.

Is this a translation problem or something because he's definitely still a skilled hockey player. More so than most of the people in his current league. That does not mean he belongs on the national team nor does it mean he's a for sure nhler but fallen off a cliff seems like an odd description

 

[themelkman]

That would certainly explain why he's fallen off a cliff.
So what's going on with his development in North America? Why the hell isn't he being coached? That's just beyond inexcusable.

And no, his former skill level is gone. You can't just miss 3 straight years of development and get it all back. Not at this crucial age. Doesn't work that way.


I've said it all along....he's a good player. It's just a shame he's not an elite talent anymore.
Such a needless waste of talent if the reason is bad hockey instruction.

He was put in a tough spot because of COVID. His skills havent evaporated, it just took some time to adapt them to harder competition. After 2 years of crushing everyone you play, of course its going to be a little tougher to play against actual professional men in the 4-5 games you saw in Sochi.

 

[Zine]

He was put in a tough spot because of COVID. His skills havent evaporated, it just took some time to adapt them to harder competition. After 2 years of crushing everyone you play, of course its going to be a little tougher to play against actual professional men in the 4-5 games you saw in Sochi.

Covid?
He was a mediocre before the Covid at his last WJAC and Hlinka.
Then was only a 3rd round pick (despite heavily scouted in North America) the year mostly unaffected by Covid 2019-20.
Previous to this he was dominating kids his age, so much he was moved to the 2001 age group. And now he's still average when playing with his Russian peers.

I like his skills. Talented kid. If the Russian staff had the opportunity to see him regularly he might be at the U20. But he'd be in a depth role.

It's just a shame he regressed and is no longer an elite player though; for whatever reason. That's my entire point. Not sure why you're so defensive over this.

 

[themelkman]

Covid?
He was a mediocre before the Covid at his last WJAC and Hlinka.
Then was only a 3rd round pick (despite heavily scouted in North America) the year mostly unaffected by Covid 2019-20.
Previous to this he was dominating kids his age, so much he was moved to the 2001 age group. And now he's still average when playing with his Russian peers.

I like his skills. Talented kid. If the Russian staff had the opportunity to see him regularly he might be at the U20. But he'd be in a depth role.

It's just a shame he regressed and is no longer an elite player though; for whatever reason. That's my entire point. Not sure why you're so defensive over this.

My point is you have no idea. I dont expect him to be some superstar, and maybe he was thought to be one at some point but its very normal for players to change paths, just look at Aatu Raty. Right now hes an excellent talent whos doing very well on a bad team in juniors, and I am not worried about his NHL potential at all.

 

[Kibe]

My point is you have no idea. I dont expect him to be some superstar, and maybe he was thought to be one at some point but its very normal for players to change paths, just look at Aatu Raty. Right now hes an excellent talent whos doing very well on a bad team in juniors, and I am not worried about his NHL potential at all.

Räty doesn't play in a junior league.

 

[Zine]

My point is you have no idea. I dont expect him to be some superstar, and maybe he was thought to be one at some point but its very normal for players to change paths, just look at Aatu Raty. Right now hes an excellent talent whos doing very well on a bad team in juniors, and I am not worried about his NHL potential at all.

NHL potential? Who's discussing that? For a 3rd rounder it's good, actually. People are just disappointed in Guschin's decline.

I can likewise guarantee a lot of Finns are/would be disappointed if Aatu Räty's declining too. Do you see NYI supporters yelling "He's talented! You have no idea! We're not worried about his NHL potential!. Whaaaahhhh!"

Cmon now, there's no reason to be so defensive.

 

[themelkman]

NHL potential? Who's discussing that? For a 3rd rounder it's good, actually. People are just disappointed in Guschin's decline.

I can likewise guarantee a lot of Finns are/would be disappointed if Aatu Räty's declining too. Do you see NYI supporters yelling "He's talented! You have no idea! We're not worried about his NHL potential!. Whaaaahhhh!"

Cmon now, there's no reason to be so defensive.

I dont know what your problem is here. My point in this thread was that it was a dumb choice to leave him off the WJC roster. Then you insisted hes fallen off a cliff and is terrible compared to when he was like 14. Obviously I dont know what you thought he was going to be 10 years ago, but right now hes a pretty good player with a bright future.

 

[Kcoyote3]

NHL potential? Who's discussing that? For a 3rd rounder it's good, actually. People are just disappointed in Guschin's decline.


Cmon now, there's no reason to be so defensive.

Some mythical high and some mythical low is why we are being defensive. He was ranked 41-86 from the major services. He was drafted at 76.

he destroyed the USHL last year, and he’s done really well this year in the OHL at 19. He is progressing fine.

The reason we are being defensive is because you’re using some sort of decline to wax poetic about how it’s such a shame how low he’s sunk because you’re trying to make a backhanded argument that it’s somehow North America’s fault for his current lack of development. The issue is that he’s not behind schedule at all, especially considering some of the hardships of the past two years. It’s absolute insanity how pompous you come off in your posts.

 

[Zine]

Some mythical high and some mythical low is why we are being defensive. He was ranked 41-86 from the major services. He was drafted at 76.

he destroyed the USHL last year, and he’s done really well this year in the OHL at 19. He is progressing fine.

The reason we are being defensive is because you’re using some sort of decline to wax poetic about how it’s such a shame how low he’s sunk because you’re trying to make a backhanded argument that it’s somehow North America’s fault for his current lack of development. The issue is that he’s not behind schedule at all, especially considering some of the hardships of the past two years. It’s absolute insanity how pompous you come off in your posts.

I'm not the one who said he hasn't been coached for 3 years now. Sharks supporters should be just as upset about this as anybody else. Why aren't you?
This is inexcusable albeit in Europe or North America. Perhaps you're the ones with an agenda.

And it's not like Guschin is the only player dealing with hardship lately. What, is the Coronavirus affecting him only? Cry me a river.

I'm just stating facts. He was, by far, our best 2002 several years ago. And it totally sucks that he's not that anymore. Any hockey fan from any part of the world would feel the same about an (former) elite talent from an age group.
If you can't handle this, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[themelkman]

I'm not the one who said he hasn't been coached for 3 years now. Sharks supporters should be just as upset about this as anybody else. Why aren't you?
This is inexcusable albeit in Europe or North America. Perhaps you're the ones with an agenda.

And it's not like Guschin is the only player dealing with hardship lately. What, is the Coronavirus affecting him only? Cry me a river.

I'm just stating facts. He was, by far, our best 2002 several years ago. And it totally sucks that he's not that anymore. Any hockey fan from any part of the world would feel the same about an (former) elite talent from an age group.
If you can't handle this, I don't know what to tell you.

Its all good, just dont pretend your his biggest fan and always knew he would do well when hes a good NHL player.

 

[DatDude44]

That would certainly explain why he's fallen off a cliff.
So what's going on with his development in North America? Why the hell isn't he being coached? That's just beyond inexcusable.

And no, his former skill level is gone. You can't just miss 3 straight years of development and get it all back. Not at this crucial age. Doesn't work that way.


I've said it all along....he's a good player. It's just a shame he's not an elite talent anymore.
Such a needless waste of talent if the reason is bad hockey instruction.

It's not like he hasn't been playing hockey lol, he didn't just diminish all his skills lol, because to quote you "it doesn't work like that", he just hasn't taken any steps forward in 3 years. He hasn't gotten worse, just hasn't really improved..... if he was as un-skilled as you imply he wouldn't have been signed by SJ at the end of last year.