F Dalibor Dvorsky - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2023, 10th, STL)

[Czechboy]

Slovaks have a beauty sleeper team at the Jr's.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

21 points in his last 10

19 (9+10) in his last 8.

 

[BlueDream]

That's gonna be a tough ask though. Firstly because it's against human nature to invest into change when things almost couldn't go better. Secondly it's also tough to adjust to a level you're not currently playing. It would have been easier to do it while actually playing vs men.

This would be much easier to do if he, like most prospects, had a junior game that, with a few tweaks, can translate well to pro hockey. The fact that this is obviously not the case for Dvorsky is a big warning sign for me. The fact that the player himself said he's done with junior hockey tells me he knows it as well. In my view, he should absolutely stop playing vs kids. I said it many times...hopefully I'm wrong but I don't like it one bit.

An 18 year old shouldn’t be playing against other kids?

You don’t know anything about development.

 

[Hinterland]

An 18 year old shouldn’t be playing against other kids?

You don’t know anything about development.

That's what he said himself. He said he doesn't wanna play OHL.

Every player is different and Dvorsky mastered dominating fellow kids long ago. He can just do that on repeat year after year until aging out but I'm not sure he's gonna learn much. He knows it himself...somehow still changed his mind and went back to playing juniors. For him it's about learning how to play vs men, something he struggled with.

 

[BlueDream]

That's what he said himself. He said he doesn't wanna play OHL.

Every player is different and Dvorsky mastered dominating fellow kids long ago. He can just do that on repeat year after year until aging out but I'm not sure he's gonna learn much. He knows it himself...somehow still changed his mind and went back to playing juniors. For him it's about learning how to play vs men, something he struggled with.

Teenagers have no idea what’s best for them. They just say shit even if it’s not realistic. He’s right where basically all of his peers are and where he belongs, that’s all the matters.

 

[Hinterland]

Teenagers have no idea what’s best for them. They just say shit even if it’s not realistic. He’s right where basically all of his peers are and where he belongs, that’s all the matters.

I disagree with this. Many teenagers know exactly what they need. Also, as I said many times already, every case is unique. Many players drafted after Dvorsky already had success playing vs men while Dvorsky failed. I'd much rather see him try to adjust to pro hockey than continue to do what he already know he can. The question is whether junior hockey is the ideal place for him to develop more of a pro hockey game. For many players that's the case, but when it comes to Dvorsky I'm not very optimistic. I think another year in the Allsvenkan would have been ideal. The Blues are likely gonna want him to play AHL next year which is a step up from Allsvenskan. We'll see and hopefully I'm wrong but I don't like Dvorsky going back to juniors. I like it for Honzek but he's a different case. Had success vs men early on so for him it's now about adjusting to NA hockey and maybe finding another offensive gear. So yeah. OHL (or CHL leagues in general) is a great development league and the worlds top junior league but that doesn't mean it's the place to be for all prospects at all stages of their development.

 

[bert]

That's what he said himself. He said he doesn't wanna play OHL.

Every player is different and Dvorsky mastered dominating fellow kids long ago. He can just do that on repeat year after year until aging out but I'm not sure he's gonna learn much. He knows it himself...somehow still changed his mind and went back to playing juniors. For him it's about learning how to play vs men, something he struggled with.

He's 18 years old man. He is not a man, his body needs to mature still its quite clearly the best place for his development right now. He wasnt ready physically for mens hockey whether it was speed or strength it wasnt working yet. Not every player/person matures at the same speed or rate why cant you wrap your head around that?

 

[Hinterland]

He's 18 years old man. He is not a man, his body needs to mature still its quite clearly the best place for his development right now. He wasnt ready physically for mens hockey whether it was speed or strength it wasnt working yet. Not every player/person matures at the same speed or rate why cant you wrap your head around that?

He's physically ready. That's actually part of the reason why he's dominating juniors. He's more ready physically than fellow kids. What he needs to work on is skating. Skating and decision making, especially against the puck. That's what he has to work on...he has to work on to play pro hockey...and that's the problem. He doesn't have to work on anything to dominate the OHL. He came in and dominated instantly, just as I said. Back in Sweden it was the same thing. He can effortlessly dominate fellow kids, even older ones. The problem is that his junior game does not translate to pro hockey. This is why I dislike him going back to juniors.

 

[TK 421]

Dvorsky took a route counter to his best interests when he signed in Oskarshamn prior to the draft. He should have stayed in Stockholm with AIK where they were familiar with him, Allsvenskan was his best bet to advance as a pro in '23-'24. Case in point to what Dream is talking about, his camp f***ed up.

Going to Allsvenskan would have been best but CHL was the 2nd best option and I'm thrilled his D+1 is salvaged somewhat. As expected he's absolutely shredding the CHL while adjusting to the NA game so it will be fun to get a chance to see where he's at in '24-'25 camp. Really like the control the Blues have here, they can assign him to AHL Springfield if they don't want to start his NHL clock which gives him a chance to work with their training staff.

So I think you're both right actually. Mistakes were made by Dvorsky's camp and the Blues attempted to make the best of the resulting situation.

 

[Hinterland]

Dvorsky took a route counter to his best interests when he signed in Oskarshamn prior to the draft. He should have stayed in Stockholm with AIK where they were familiar with him, Allsvenskan was his best bet to advance as a pro in '23-'24. Case in point to what Dream is talking about, his camp f***ed up.

Going to Allsvenskan would have been best but CHL was the 2nd best option and I'm thrilled his D+1 is salvaged somewhat. As expected he's absolutely shredding the CHL while adjusting to the NA game so it will be fun to get a chance to see where he's at in '24-'25 camp. Really like the control the Blues have here, they can assign him to AHL Springfield if they don't want to start his NHL clock which gives him a chance to work with their training staff.

So I think you're both right actually. Mistakes were made by Dvorsky's camp and the Blues attempted to make the best of the resulting situation.

I agree he should have stayed in the Allsvenskan but there are lots of other leagues where he could have played vs men. I'm not sure if the OHL really was his 2nd best option. But yeah, we'll see in camp. I just don't think playing in a league you instantly dominate is necessarily ideal to work on your weaknesses, change your game.

It's easier to work on flaws if you're reminded of them on a regular basis vs if you never really get challenged at all.

 

[tmlmatus]

Can they call him up to the AHL this season or only next season?

 

[AVictoryDive]

Can they call him up to the AHL this season or only next season?

Only after his junior season is done

 

[TK 421]

I agree he should have stayed in the Allsvenskan but there are lots of other leagues where he could have played vs men. I'm not sure if the OHL really was his 2nd best option. But yeah, we'll see in camp. I just don't think playing in a league you instantly dominate is necessarily ideal to work on your weaknesses, change your game.

It's easier to work on flaws if you're reminded of them on a regular basis vs if you never really get challenged at all.

Next year he'll show where he needs to be and be assigned accordingly, the important part is that the Blues now have direct control at the conclusion of his season with Sudbury.

 

[Goldenhands]

Dvorsky's skating wasnt good enough to exploit his tools against men, so the decision to bring him over to play in the CHL was smart IMO. He remains one of the youngest players from the last draft and last thing you want is ruin his confidence. Now he is going to work on his skating at his own pace without worrying about his ice time.

 

[Hinterland]

Next year he'll show where he needs to be and be assigned accordingly, the important part is that the Blues now have direct control at the conclusion of his season with Sudbury.

No. The important thing is Dvorsky working on his weaknesses and changing his game. Which I think is easier to do while getting challenged vs while dominating kids. But we're gonna find out.

 

[bert]

He's physically ready. That's actually part of the reason why he's dominating juniors. He's more ready physically than fellow kids. What he needs to work on is skating. Skating and decision making, especially against the puck. That's what he has to work on...he has to work on to play pro hockey...and that's the problem. He doesn't have to work on anything to dominate the OHL. He came in and dominated instantly, just as I said. Back in Sweden it was the same thing. He can effortlessly dominate fellow kids, even older ones. The problem is that his junior game does not translate to pro hockey. This is why I dislike him going back to juniors.

Skating is part of being physically ready... Are you serious?

Dvorsky's skating wasnt good enough to exploit his tools against men, so the decision to bring him over to play in the CHL was smart IMO. He remains one of the youngest players from the last draft and last thing you want is ruin his confidence. Now he is going to work on his skating at his own pace without worrying about his ice time.

Bingo. He can't work on anything if he can't keep up.

 

[Hinterland]

Skating is part of being physically ready... Are you serious?


Bingo. He can't work on anything if he can't keep up.

No. Skating is mostly a question of technique and has very little to do with physicality or not being physically ready.

 

[Kearns]

No. Skating is mostly a question of technique and has very little to do with physicality or not being physically ready.

I feel like you need Doug Armstrong's cell number.

 

[TK 421]

No. The important thing is Dvorsky working on his weaknesses and changing his game. Which I think is easier to do while getting challenged vs while dominating kids. But we're gonna find out.

It's irrelevant this season which he will spend playing against juniors but I would suggest he could still make fundamental changes to his game inside this season despite playing in juniors. I'm referencing next season where he will be with AHL Springfield or with the Blues because he won't be staying a 2nd year in Sudbury or anywhere in the CHL for that matter.

 

[rt]

No. Skating is mostly a question of technique and has very little to do with physicality or not being physically ready.

This isn’t true at all.

 

[bert]

No. Skating is mostly a question of technique and has very little to do with physicality or not being physically ready.

Again are you serious? It's a physical tool that needs to develop. It's technique, strength, explosives, Edgework. It develops like all parts of the game and when a player gets stronger it improves. I really can't tell if this is a serious statement/argument......

 

[Hinterland]

Again are you serious? It's a physical tool that needs to develop. It's technique, strength, explosives, Edgework. It develops like all parts of the game and when a player gets stronger it improves. I really can't tell if this is a serious statement/argument......

So you agree with me just to then write that you disagree? Of course there's physical elements and requirements but without the right technique you only get so far. If skating wasn't mostly about technique then why do you think poor skaters hardly ever get better after the age of ~20? Why do you think NHL teams are so hesitant when it comes to drafting poor skaters? If this was just about physicality, it would be an easy fix for everyone. Did you ever skate?

Also, Dvorsky is pretty much as physically ready as it gets for his age. It's part of the reason why he's been dominating fellow kids, even older ones, for years. Stating the opposite is just trolling. He's in great shape. Unfortunately that doesn't help much if you don't have the right technique.

 

[cheechoo]

I agree with skating being more technique than physical attributes. Of course, getting stronger and more powerful will attribute to generating more torque etc, but we have to assume that these are all junior players that are far away from their peak physical output and will all get stronger and more physically dominant at a semi-equivalent rate.

It's going to take technique overhauls to get a poor/average skater to take it to another gear.

 

[bert]

So you agree with me just to then write that you disagree? Of course there's physical elements and requirements but without the right technique you only get so far. If skating wasn't mostly about technique then why do you think poor skaters hardly ever get better after the age of ~20? Why do you think NHL teams are so hesitant when it comes to drafting poor skaters? If this was just about physicality, it would be an easy fix for everyone. Did you ever skate?

Also, Dvorsky is pretty much as physically ready as it gets for his age. It's part of the reason why he's been dominating fellow kids, even older ones, for years. Stating the opposite is just trolling. He's in great shape. Unfortunately that doesn't help much if you don't have the right technique.

I never agreed with you literally the opposite. Players develop their technique..... it's part of being physically ready. I still can't believe you can't understand this. He's clearly not physically ready... This is getting silly.

You are stating things as fact like players don't improve their skating after 20. What are you talking about.....

Did I ever skate yes I did. I played Jr b, Jr A, and Canadian University. I also help coach major Jr and skill development as well as coaching Jr b. How about you?

 

[Hinterland]

I never agreed with you literally the opposite. Players develop their technique..... it's part of being physically ready. I still can't believe you can't understand this. He's clearly not physically ready... This is getting silly.

You are stating things as fact like players don't improve their skating after 20. What are you talking about.....

Did I ever skate yes I did. I played Jr b, Jr A, and Canadian University. I also help coach major Jr and skill development as well as coaching Jr b. How about you?

No, developing technique has very little to do with being physically ready. You're talking out of your ass.

Let's take a look at the best skaters. In the NHL, first one that comes to mind is Jeff Skinner. Why is he such an amazing skater? Because he's better physically than the rest of the NHL? I like Jeff Skinner but I think we can all agree that quite the opposite is the case. So...why is he still such a good skater? The answer is easy. Because his technique is next level thanks to his figure skating drills paying off.

We can take a look at juniors as well. The CHL's most impressive skater is probably Tristen Doyle. Is that guy physically ahead of fellow kids? If you ever watched him you agree with me that's clearly not the case. He's such a good skater...surprise surprise...because of his technique.

If skating was so easy that you can do it without a good technique then many sports would be dominated by different people.

A good example is cross country skiing. Not quite the same as skating on ice but there are similarities. Somehow, classical races are dominated by different people than skating races. Why? Because...surprise surprise... you need a way better technique for skating. If you're a great athlete you can power through a classical race but not a skating race.