OT: Everything COVID19 - PART IX

[AchtzehnBaby]

We've been asked by the admins to start phasing out the team board covid threads. Going forward, only topics of local interest should be discussed here.

Local interest refers to what's going on in your community.

Posts about causes, symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, and prevention are no longer allowed unless there is a local component. Otherwise they belong in main board thread
COVID 19 - The Coronavirus Outbreak

** NO POLITICAL RANTING **

-------
Sources of local and reliable information

Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)
COVID-19 (coronavirus) in Ontario
Daily COVID-19 Dashboard

Stay home – save lives and don’t put others at risk

Click to read more...

 

[GCK]

Got my AZ shot yesterday. I feel like I got run over by a bus.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Got my AZ shot yesterday. I feel like I got run over by a bus.

I was wiped for 1.5 days. My wife was fine.

Nothing serious, but a bit of the chills for first night, and then just tired.

I did not take anything to stop it, which isn't too clear in the canadian medical recommendations - some sites say don't take advil or tylenol for 2 days... some say take it.

 

[foggyvisor]

My sister-in-law had chills, fevers, body pain and headaches for 2 full days after her AZ shot. My brother was fine.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

It's really a mixed bag. I had my second Pfizer shot and felt fine, but other family members really felt like shit with it.

 

[JD1]

Got my AZ shot yesterday. I feel like I got run over by a bus.

So'd I the next day. Good news is I was 100% the day after that

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Canadians avoiding hotel quarantines for air travellers fuel taxi boom on U.S. border

 

[Beech]

it is incredible what Australia and New Zealand were able to do. Testing numbers only
1) cost per lost life (the higher the better.....somewhat, read on)

2) cost per person/resident (the lower the better) showing the costliest

3) net cost (the lower the better, showing costliest)...misleading, read on!!!!

4) effectiveness (cost per lost life/cost per person)..the higher the better

Canada does well in effectiveness...12th. Cost per lost person...15th. Cost per person...23rd.
what was once Eastern Europe is at the bottom of effectiveness. As is the USA, UK, Italy.. wait until commissions are convened in the aftermath
UNREAL..It's as if it never happened in New Zealand or Australia

 

[ColinM]

it is incredible what Australia and New Zealand were able to do. Testing numbers only
1) cost per lost life (the higher the better.....somewhat, read on)
View attachment 426808

2) cost per person/resident (the lower the better) showing the costliest
View attachment 426811

3) net cost (the lower the better, showing costliest)...misleading, read on!!!!
View attachment 426812

4) effectiveness (cost per lost life/cost per person)..the higher the better
View attachment 426815

Canada does well in effectiveness...12th. Cost per lost person...15th. Cost per person...23rd.
what was once Eastern Europe is at the bottom of effectiveness. As is the USA, UK, Italy.. wait until commissions are convened in the aftermath
UNREAL..It's as if it never happened in New Zealand or Australia

I noticed that over the weekend they had lots of fans in the stands at Aussie Rules Football games.

The advantages of being surrounded by water

 

[ColinM]

In other news Nova Scotia has gone from debating sharing their vaccines to calling in the army for help in a matter of about a week. There goes spring.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

it is incredible what Australia and New Zealand were able to do. Testing numbers only
1) cost per lost life (the higher the better.....somewhat, read on)
View attachment 426808

2) cost per person/resident (the lower the better) showing the costliest
View attachment 426811

3) net cost (the lower the better, showing costliest)...misleading, read on!!!!
View attachment 426812

4) effectiveness (cost per lost life/cost per person)..the higher the better
View attachment 426815

Canada does well in effectiveness...12th. Cost per lost person...15th. Cost per person...23rd.
what was once Eastern Europe is at the bottom of effectiveness. As is the USA, UK, Italy.. wait until commissions are convened in the aftermath
UNREAL..It's as if it never happened in New Zealand or Australia

I noticed that over the weekend they had lots of fans in the stands at Aussie Rules Football games.

The advantages of being surrounded by water

The PM in New Zealand took heavy precautions every time there was a small increase in cases. Literally, lockdown for 7-10 days if they found like 5 cases. They've essentially been back to normal for several months now, in person rugby games were played with full stadiums and no masks since July.

It isn't just the luxury of being surrounded by water, with our borders closed to the US, we're basically the same. They've just done a really good job going hard and fast at small outbreaks.

Australia were suffering a while ago as well. They are split into states and each had to control their own lockdown. One of the states was having trouble with control so the other States created borders and regional restrictions to cut off travel between them.

Both countries have favorable geographic locations, but they've also put in the right restrictions at the right times. Their process will be a case study for future issues.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

it is incredible what Australia and New Zealand were able to do. Testing numbers only
1) cost per lost life (the higher the better.....somewhat, read on)
View attachment 426808

2) cost per person/resident (the lower the better) showing the costliest
View attachment 426811

3) net cost (the lower the better, showing costliest)...misleading, read on!!!!
View attachment 426812

4) effectiveness (cost per lost life/cost per person)..the higher the better
View attachment 426815

Canada does well in effectiveness...12th. Cost per lost person...15th. Cost per person...23rd.
what was once Eastern Europe is at the bottom of effectiveness. As is the USA, UK, Italy.. wait until commissions are convened in the aftermath
UNREAL..It's as if it never happened in New Zealand or Australia

Both those countries were extremely aggressive with lockdowns. They make "tough canadians" look like the petty children we actually are.

Obviously the uniformed will say "they are islands" and fail to see that the U.K. is also an island.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

The PM in New Zealand took heavy precautions every time there was a small increase in cases. Literally, lockdown for 7-10 days if they found like 5 cases. They've essentially been back to normal for several months now, in person rugby games were played with full stadiums and no masks since July.

It isn't just the luxury of being surrounded by water, with our borders closed to the US, we're basically the same. They've just done a really good job going hard and fast at small outbreaks.

Australia were suffering a while ago as well. They are split into states and each had to control their own lockdown. One of the states was having trouble with control so the other States created borders and regional restrictions to cut off travel between them.

Both countries have favorable geographic locations, but they've also put in the right restrictions at the right times. Their process will be a case study for future issues.

Australia have been so strict on travel and 14 day quarantines. Like you do not have the option. Here we try to quarantine based on the honour system. We've proven that does not work. But we want our freedoms so instead we do a wishy washy attempt and it just goes on forever. I'd take a week here or there lockdown to have an otherwise fairly normal life (minus international travel).

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Australia have been so strict on travel and 14 day quarantines. Like you do not have the option. Here we try to quarantine based on the honour system. We've proven that does not work. But we want our freedoms so instead we do a wishy washy attempt and it just goes on forever. I'd take a week here or there lockdown to have an otherwise fairly normal life (minus international travel).

I agree 100%. People have a hard time looking into the future even by a couple weeks (freeeedom!!!). I'm not sure why we're so scared of an ultra lockdown for small periods of time if that means everyone can go back to work, school, leisure.

Even vaccine distribution is a problem in Canada, we feel so third world sometimes, waiting for vaccine donations. I can't find the article anymore but Trudeau months ago cancelled a shipment of Pfizer vaccines because we had approved a different vaccine. But now you've screwed yourself because none of these vaccines are delivering on schedule.

Canada is getting AstraZeneca vaccines from the US right now, in large part because the US can't do anything with them because they aren't approved there. In the US, you can walk into a grocery store or a Walmart without an appointment and get a covid vaccine on the spot (first and second doses) while we hover around 10-15% first doses only.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I agree 100%. People have a hard time looking into the future even by a couple weeks (freeeedom!!!). I'm not sure why we're so scared of an ultra lockdown for small periods of time if that means everyone can go back to work, school, leisure.

Even vaccine distribution is a problem in Canada, we feel so third world sometimes, waiting for vaccine donations. I can't find the article anymore but Trudeau months ago cancelled a shipment of Pfizer vaccines because we had approved a different vaccine. But now you've screwed yourself because none of these vaccines are delivering on schedule.

Canada is getting AstraZeneca vaccines from the US right now, in large part because the US can't do anything with them because they aren't approved there. In the US, you can walk into a grocery store or a Walmart without an appointment and get a covid vaccine on the spot (first and second doses) while we hover around 10-15% first doses only.

Money talks. The richest country in the world unsurprisingly is able to get things like this done pretty quickly.

 

[pzeeman]

I can't find the article anymore but Trudeau months ago cancelled a shipment of Pfizer vaccines because we had approved a different vaccine.

That surprised me because such an action would be political hari-kari, so I went to see what I could find. From mid-January:

Canada passed on 16 million Moderna coronavirus vaccine doses due to timeline: minister

So Moderna couldn't move up their delivery schedule, and those 16M doses would have come at the end of the year. Doesn't seem like a move that would have affected supply in the medium term, or anything that would have backed Trudeau into a corner should another supplier not come through in the spring.

The reason we're at the mercy of other nations in the supply chain for getting vaccines here is another matter, with a long history of short-sighted decisions by governments of all colours over the past 40 years.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Money talks. The richest country in the world unsurprisingly is able to get things like this done pretty quickly.

Yeah but it's not like we're poor. We're not in good company for our doses per 100. The list is much worse when you look at the fully vaccinated group. We're at less than 3%.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

That surprised me because such an action would be political hari-kari, so I went to see what I could find. From mid-January:

Canada passed on 16 million Moderna coronavirus vaccine doses due to timeline: minister

So Moderna couldn't move up their delivery schedule, and those 16M doses would have come at the end of the year. Doesn't seem like a move that would have affected supply in the medium term, or anything that would have backed Trudeau into a corner should another supplier not come through in the spring.

The reason we're at the mercy of other nations in the supply chain for getting vaccines here is another matter, with a long history of short-sighted decisions by governments of all colours over the past 40 years.

Oh I'm not trying to be political about it at all. We're all in this shit together, at times like this groups need to forget about partisanship and just work together.

He did a presser I think towards the end of last year defending the cancellation of a Pfizer shipment, but my timeline could be incorrect.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We scared off pharmaceuticals because we decided our policies were going to prioritize making sure drugs are cheap.

That is the oversimplification of why don't have vaccine manufacturing capabilities in Canada.

The trend of pharmaceuticals leaving started in the 80's and it culminated in the 2000's.

So while we are screwed now due to low vaccine availability, we still have cheaper drugs than the US. It isn't like we just "suck", we got something really good in exchange for making the pharmaceuticals leave Canada.

Again, this is an oversimplification of a complex trend that developed over 30 years.

 

[ColinM]

Both those countries were extremely aggressive with lockdowns. They make "tough canadians" look like the petty children we actually are.

Obviously the uniformed will say "they are islands" and fail to see that the U.K. is also an island.

The U.K. is also much more densely populated than either Australia or New Zealand. The larger point is that is easier to secure your borders when you are surrounded by ocean. Although I think they nailed the quarantine requirements.

 

[JD1]

Both those countries were extremely aggressive with lockdowns. They make "tough canadians" look like the petty children we actually are.

Obviously the uniformed will say "they are islands" and fail to see that the U.K. is also an island.

The UK is an island about the size of my fingernail with 68M people living in it.

Australia has 3.3 people per sq kilometer
New Zealand has 18
The UK has 275, sitting next door to the EU with their 118 people per dq kilometer

This is not exactly an apples to apples comparison

 

[JD1]

We scared off pharmaceuticals because we decided our policies were going to prioritize making sure drugs are cheap.

That is the oversimplification of why don't have vaccine manufacturing capabilities in Canada.

The trend of pharmaceuticals leaving started in the 80's and it culminated in the 2000's.

So while we are screwed now due to low vaccine availability, we still have cheaper drugs than the US. It isn't like we just "suck", we got something really good in exchange for making the pharmaceuticals leave Canada.

Again, this is an oversimplification of a complex trend that developed over 30 years.

Ya, you're right. It's a bit of an oversimplification but we chose cheap generic drugs rather than pharmaceutical investment

 

[DaveMatthew]

Both those countries were extremely aggressive with lockdowns. They make "tough canadians" look like the petty children we actually are.

Obviously the uniformed will say "they are islands" and fail to see that the U.K. is also an island.

It's not fair to chalk it up to Canadians being "petty children".

New Zealand's government acted extremely swiftly, consistently and with a high-degree of urgency, and as a result, got a ton of buy-in from the populace. Canada did anything but.

• On February 3rd, New Zealand placed entry restrictions on foreign nationals travelling from, or transiting through, mainland China.
• On February 11th, Canadian health officials were weighing whether to ask all travelers from China to self-quarantine for 14 days, but "70 to 80 people from Hubei area were arriving in Canada each day", according to Theresa Tam.
• On February 14th, Canadian health officials advised that masks won’t necessarily protect against COVID-19. Tam said the masks were more useful for people who are “actually sick.”
• That same week, New Zealand instituted a mask mandate in public spaces.

Or officials hemmed and hawed and were slow to respond on every front, and over the last 15 months, with the constant back and forth and incomprehensible color coded "guidelines", they've lost people.

And now they're acting as this "wave" could not have been predicted, and it's all on Canadians. But may I remind you, on February 13th, 2020:

Hospital overcrowding represents a potential critical weakness in Canada’s preparedness for an outbreak of the new coronavirus, warned a Perth, Ontario emergency physician. According to Dr. James Simpson, “There is no capacity in the system right now to manage a crisis. In fact, most hospitals currently have negative capacity as many are running with over 100% of their beds being filled.”

COVID-19: A timeline of Canada’s first-wave response | CMAJ News

That was 15 months ago. But sure, they had no idea. Our healthcare system is great and this is just unprecedented! No. They just did shit all to prepare and respond.

 

[JD1]

It's not fair to chalk it up to Canadians being "petty children".

New Zealand's government acted extremely swiftly, consistently and with a high-degree of urgency, and as a result, got a ton of buy-in from the populace. Canada did anything but.

• On February 3rd, New Zealand placed entry restrictions on foreign nationals travelling from, or transiting through, mainland China.
• On February 11th, Canadian health officials were weighing whether to ask all travelers from China to self-quarantine for 14 days, but "70 to 80 people from Hubei area were arriving in Canada each day", according to Theresa Tam.
• On February 14th, Canadian health officials advised that masks won’t necessarily protect against COVID-19. Tam said the masks were more useful for people who are “actually sick.”
• That same week, New Zealand instituted a mask mandate in public spaces.

Or officials hemmed and hawed and were slow to respond on every front, and over the last 15 months, with the constant back and forth and incomprehensible color coded "guidelines", they've lost people.

And now they're acting as this "wave" could not have been predicted, and it's all on Canadians. But may I remind you, on February 13th, 2020:



COVID-19: A timeline of Canada’s first-wave response | CMAJ News

That was 15 months ago. But sure, they had no idea. Our healthcare system is great and this is just unprecedented! No. They just did shit all to prepare and respond.

It worse than that

Over half the covid in Canada is variants

Didn't have the courage to lock down international travel

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It's not fair to chalk it up to Canadians being "petty children".

New Zealand's government acted extremely swiftly, consistently and with a high-degree of urgency, and as a result, got a ton of buy-in from the populace. Canada did anything but.

• On February 3rd, New Zealand placed entry restrictions on foreign nationals travelling from, or transiting through, mainland China.
• On February 11th, Canadian health officials were weighing whether to ask all travelers from China to self-quarantine for 14 days, but "70 to 80 people from Hubei area were arriving in Canada each day", according to Theresa Tam.
• On February 14th, Canadian health officials advised that masks won’t necessarily protect against COVID-19. Tam said the masks were more useful for people who are “actually sick.”
• That same week, New Zealand instituted a mask mandate in public spaces.

Or officials hemmed and hawed and were slow to respond on every front, and over the last 15 months, with the constant back and forth and incomprehensible color coded "guidelines", they've lost people.

And now they're acting as this "wave" could not have been predicted, and it's all on Canadians. But may I remind you, on February 13th, 2020:



COVID-19: A timeline of Canada’s first-wave response | CMAJ News

That was 15 months ago. But sure, they had no idea. Our healthcare system is great and this is just unprecedented! No. They just did shit all to prepare and respond.

You are right, it isn't fair but I'm really, really disappointed in how we have handled things.