Value of: Evander Kane To Vancouver

Sabresfansince1980

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Slightly different now compared to when he was being moved out of WPG, isn't it? If you think Kane has the same value now as he did when he was traded to BUFF then I'm not sure what to tell you. He does not and it's clear as day that you're too emotional about the topic to have an honest discussion. Kane will be traded and it won't be for anything close to what you and many others think. Just watch and see.

I don't think he has the same trade value, and I also don't think he had that value when the first trade happened. I think TM saw a chance to make a trade happen then, before other GMs could get in on the action in the summer. So to make it happen he paid market price despite baggage. I never liked the trade to begin with, both for Kane's attitude and because I don't think he's a top scoring winger (more suited to drive a checking line imo).

That said, I don't think Kane's situation is all that terrible right now. Despite what an absolute @#$% I think he is, he's only looking at a misdemeanor trespass charge that likely gets reduced or dropped (since the bar owner isn't backing up the charge). The other stuff is non-criminal (even though it's more serious in a moral sense). All said and done, TM won't have to worry about Kane being able to play and at least be semi-effective as a 20-20 guy.

With his name being drug out (rightly so) I don't expect TM to trade him asap, especially with his perceived drop in value. Fair value for on-ice Kane is a 2nd pair D-man. So unless a deal like that pops up the best option for TM is to just keep him and hope he's drama free for a long enough stretch to trade him for fair value at one of the next two TDLs.
 

Homesick

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Myth: Evander Kane has a lengthy history of legal trouble
Fact: Kane has been been in trouble with the courts once in his life, a minor trespassing charge due to alleged unruly behavior in a bar.

Myth: Kane issues aren't significant
Fact: Kane has been involved in situations that created embarrassing headlines three times during his year in Buffalo and at several other times during his stint with the Jets. NHL franchises care about their reputations.

Myth: Kane is a terrible teammate.
Fact: He seems to clearly have been disliked by the leadership in Winnipeg. There has been no evidence that is the case so far in Buffalo. Kane has said he likes his teammates in Buffalo and there is some evidence to suggest the feeling is mutual. He expressed contrition over his high-profile missed practice and his teammates seemed to accept that. Tim Murray has talked about a need for him to show leadership by spending more time around the locker room. His commitment to fitness and effort on the ice in Buffalo have not been questioned.

Myth: Kane is 30-goal scorer.
Fact: he's done it once and only hit 20 once as well in 7 seasons.

Myth: Kane isn't that good a player
Fact: he is a tough, elite skater and one of the best forecheckers in the game. His poor playmaking skills prevent him from being a legitimate first liner but he plays hard all the time is tough to play against and scores better than most. On most teams in most games he would be at least their second-best left winger. On many, he would be their best.

Myth: the Sabres are anxious to get rid of him.
Fact: his dickish reputation has a large portion of the NHL fan base ripping him on the Internet, convincing themselves and each other that no team would want him. It also has an equally large portion of the NHL fan base fantasizing he is an undervalued asset ripe for their favourite team to pluck at a bargain-basement cost.

Myth: Kane is healthy
Fact: Constantly missing 15-20 games per season and his frame will not hold up with his playing style.


Myth: Kane earns his salary
Fact: Kane had a break out year and has been very underwhelming since. 5.25 cap hit(6.0 actual salary) for what he brings to the ice is not ideal for 29 other teams


Up until this draft day incident, the Sabres organization has been mostly happy with Kane, his NBA all-star sleep-in notwithstanding. His coach likes him and feeds him tons of ice time. The Buffalo dressing room is as strong and as solid as it has been for years and his teammates seem to have accepted him.

But it is clear that this latest situation, coming during the draft with the eyes of the league on Buffalo and apparently involving disrespectful behavior toward women has moved Kane from core piece to a question mark. It has reawoken questions about the December incident with the woman in his hotel, which had been largely dismissed by all in the know as the result of unfortunate circumstances. It would safest to say that Kane is on notice and will have to prove himself to ownership. But these are the same Pegulas who signed Richie Incognito. They believe in second chances. And for the Sabres - unlike the hockey's future crowd - this is legitimately a second strike situation, not a fourth or fifth.

He'd only get traded for good players like a Tanev or a Virtanen if he could keep his nose clean for an extended period while repeating his career numbers. He'd only get traded for a package of mediocrities like Sbisa and Gaunce if Buffalo was actually desperate to move him.

Right now, Tim Murray would consider an offer that makes the Sabres a better hockey team. He is not interested in your best lowball offer in some imagined fire sale. At least not yet.
Oh, I'm sure he's regretting acquiring Kane already. Of course he's going to come out and down play it to the media though. No one in their right mind wouldn't
 

MikeK

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Nov 10, 2008
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I don't think he has the same trade value, and I also don't think he had that value when the first trade happened. I think TM saw a chance to make a trade happen then, before other GMs could get in on the action in the summer. So to make it happen he paid market price despite baggage. I never liked the trade to begin with, both for Kane's attitude and because I don't think he's a top scoring winger (more suited to drive a checking line imo).

That said, I don't think Kane's situation is all that terrible right now. Despite what an absolute @#$% I think he is, he's only looking at a misdemeanor trespass charge that likely gets reduced or dropped (since the bar owner isn't backing up the charge). The other stuff is non-criminal (even though it's more serious in a moral sense). All said and done, TM won't have to worry about Kane being able to play and at least be semi-effective as a 20-20 guy.

With his name being drug out (rightly so) I don't expect TM to trade him asap, especially with his perceived drop in value. Fair value for on-ice Kane is a 2nd pair D-man. So unless a deal like that pops up the best option for TM is to just keep him and hope he's drama free for a long enough stretch to trade him for fair value at one of the next two TDLs.

All I know for sure is that what players are value at around here, and what they actually go for, are two very different totals. No chance Kane has even close to the same value he had when he was traded from WPG. And to say he doesn't have negative value, not your words but others, is wrong. Nobody is going to line up and trade a top 2 Dman for Kane. It's not going to happen and it's typical HFB over evaluation. That's basically saying that Kane has the same value as Hall. Regardless of whether people want to admit it now or not, Kane has negative value and is a PR nightmare for a lot of teams. He carries with him much uncertainty and a bad reputation within the NHL community. A lot of teams are not going to want anything to do with it. I still think he's traded before the season starts, but it sure as heck won't be for a top 2 Dman. If that's what BUFF is expecting he may very well be in BUFF until his contract expires.
 

cybresabre

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Wow...keep him man. He's a basket case. If you can get a third round pick at half retention you'll be lucky.

I say the sabres keep him to expose him next year

I guess Buffalo is still salty from getting absolutely fleeced by Winnipeg.

Kane <<<<<< Roslovic, Lemieux, Stafford, Armia
The Islanders fan is still salty about the Sabres getting fleeced by Winnipeg? It's more likely the Islanders fan is still salty about the Vanek trade and is trying to just spread nonsense for the sake of nonsense.
 

Elias Pettersson

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I agree that Kane is not worth Tanev, but Larsson is a better Dman than Tanev. The Hall for Larsson deal is not the market setting value that you think it is. Hall scores lots of points but the the oilers still sucked with him and every GM knew it. NJ won the oiler lottery to rip them off to fill their need for a Dman.
No he's not Larsson doesn't even come close to tanev. Larsson I'd a great #3. Tanev is the best #2 in the NHL
 

stokes84

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Jun 30, 2008
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These threads suck because it's impossible to get inside their heads. If Vancouver really doesn't care about his behavior, then maybe they will trade a valuable piece. Buffalo would surely take some discount because of his issues, but how much? Motivations are impossible to gauge. My guess is that Buffalo would ask for Virtanen.
 

MattMartin

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Feb 10, 2007
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The Islanders fan is still salty about the Sabres getting fleeced by Winnipeg? It's more likely the Islanders fan is still salty about the Vanek trade and is trying to just spread nonsense for the sake of nonsense.

Hate to derail the thread here, but, the Vanek "fleecing" was more of a myth than reality. At the time of the trade you could very well say "the Islanders got fleeced". Now, not so much.

Original trade was...

Moulson
1st rounder in 2014 or 2015 (Lehner/Legwand)
2nd rounder in 2015. (Brendan Guhle)

for Vanek.

Moulson was traded for Torrey Mitchell and a 2014 2nd (Vaclav Karabacek) and a 2016 2nd which was traded for Josh Gorges. Mitchell was then traded for Jack Nevins and 7th rounder.

So we have the following lineage.

Thomas Vanek

For

Robin Lehner
Dave Legwand
Brendan Guhle
Jack Nevins
Vaclav Karabacek
Josh Gorges
Vasily Glotov

Just curious where you see a fleecing there?
 
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Gavy

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Unless he comes super cheap for like a 3rd, Canucks should stay away from that clown. No team with blue chip prospects should have Kane anywhere near them.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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Jul 10, 2011
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These threads suck because it's impossible to get inside their heads. If Vancouver really doesn't care about his behavior, then maybe they will trade a valuable piece. Buffalo would surely take some discount because of his issues, but how much? Motivations are impossible to gauge. My guess is that Buffalo would ask for Virtanen.[/QUOTE]

And Van would say no, and that would be the end of it.
 

Beerz

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Jun 28, 2011
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Hate to derail the thread here, but, the Vanek "fleecing" was more of a myth than reality. At the time of the trade you could very well say "the Islanders got fleeced". Now, not so much.

Original trade was...

Moulson
1st rounder in 2014 or 2015 (Lehner/Legwand)
2nd rounder in 2015. (Brendan Guhle)

for Vanek.

Moulson was traded for Torrey Mitchell and a 2014 2nd (Vaclav Karabacek) and a 2016 2nd which was traded for Josh Gorges.

So we have the following lineage.

Thomas Vanek

For

Robin Lehner
Dave Legwand
Brendan Guhle
Torrey Mitchell
Vaclav Karabacek
Josh Gorges

Just curious where you see a fleecing there?


The Islanders ended up with zilch. Seems like a fleecing to me.
 

MattMartin

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Feb 10, 2007
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The Islanders ended up with zilch. Seems like a fleecing to me.

Agreed in some aspects. The aspects would be quantity. For a chance to sign Vanek who put up 44 point in 47 games with the Islanders and a perennial 30 goal scorer that package ended up much ado about nothing. The great fleecing was the hope and prayers that the Islanders would end up a lottery pick in 2015 with a chance at McDavid and Eichel. That did not pan out as well as expected. Islanders players stayed healthy enough to make the playoffs much to the chagrin of some posters ;)

Back on topic.

How about just Vancouver's 1st in 2017 protected?
 

Hansen

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Oct 12, 2011
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Would offer Hansen + 2nd or Hansen + 3rd + B prospect

I think Kane would be an excellent addition to the Canucks but don't think he'd ever go for a POS asset like Sbisa or Dorsett and a 3rd. Not eager to deal Hansen but I think it'd be worth it.
 

Jim Bob

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Feb 27, 2002
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Ben Kuzma a beat reporter in Vancouver said he's called Sabres to find out about what it would take to get Kane and THEY brought up Sbisa. It's not some far fetched crazy idea.

Most of the crap that Sbisa gets on these boards are from whiny Canucks fans that just scream fire everyone and believe that all our players suck. Canucks might need to add a pick, but that's value for value at this point in time.

There is no chance that Tim Murray is taking a call from an out of town reporter and telling them what he would take for a player.

That is tampering.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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Would offer Hansen + 2nd or Hansen + 3rd + B prospect

I think Kane would be an excellent addition to the Canucks but don't think he'd ever go for a POS asset like Sbisa or Dorsett and a 3rd. Not eager to deal Hansen but I think it'd be worth it.

I'd take Hansen and a second.
 

Street Hawk

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I'm sure that's what everyone would love to give up to take a flyer on the kid. But I'm sure everyone knows they're not going to give him away.

If you take a hypothetical situation where Kane had 1 more year instead of 2 on his contract.

Would either fan base be inclined to hand Kane a 6 or 7 year extension at a cap hit of over $6 million?

Does anyone really trust him that much right now to lock him up until he turns 32/33? Seems like everyone wants to see if he can stay out of the non hockey headlines for the next year.
 

cybresabre

prōject positivity
Feb 27, 2002
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Hate to derail the thread here, but, the Vanek "fleecing" was more of a myth than reality. At the time of the trade you could very well say "the Islanders got fleeced". Now, not so much.

Original trade was...

Moulson
1st rounder in 2014 or 2015 (Lehner/Legwand)
2nd rounder in 2015. (Brendan Guhle)

for Vanek.

Moulson was traded for Torrey Mitchell and a 2014 2nd (Vaclav Karabacek) and a 2016 2nd which was traded for Josh Gorges. Mitchell was then traded for Jack Nevins and 7th rounder.

To make sure this post isn't a complete black hole: what's the deal with Gaunce? He's showing up often in these sorts of posts.

So we have the following lineage.

Thomas Vanek

For

Robin Lehner
Dave Legwand
Brendan Guhle
Jack Nevins
Vaclav Karabacek
Josh Gorges
Vasily Glotov

Just curious where you see a fleecing there?
We got Glotov so we won.

Fleecing fit the framework of my reply more than the reality of the situation. You guys got a useful player during the season for a less useful player and draft picks that didn't help you during that season. We got picks for a UFA. Would I do that deal again? Absolutely, with a cherry on top. Guhle alone makes it worth the while, though it's a little unfair to judge the trade on who we picked this far down the line. That said the deal also made Matt Moulson fall in love with Buffalo, so it's not all rainbows.
 

Shagpile

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