Player Discussion Evander Kane - Part 4

[Sabresfansince1980]

Yeah I think Big Botts can swing some bargain bin deals for D-men, but that's not what the roster needs to be a Cup contender. He doesn't have to go out and try to land a Doughty, but a no-doubt top-pairing guy is what this team needs. I'm not interested in a project or a player that has untapped upside hoping to finally develop. They need a 23 min/gm guy that can also take big defensive match-ups. Botts can go dumpster diving for bottom pairing and depth/Rochester guys and that's great...not for building a Cup team though.

He has to flip Kane one way or another for that player. He might have to only take futures now, and flip them next draft. If it takes that long so be it, but some project or draftee that isn't Heiskanen or maybe Makar probably isn't going to work out.

 

[Paxon]

Botterill walks into the LA GM's office

"I need a good return for Kane"

Rob Blake reaches up on his shelf for assets, pulls down a 1st round pick

"Perhaps this will please you. But, beware, it comes with a curse!"

Botterill: "That's bad"

Blake "It also comes with a free Forbort"

Botterill: "That's good!"

Blake: "Forbort is also cursed"

Botterill: "That's bad!"

Blake: "Forbort was a 1st round draft pick though"

Botterill "That's good!"

Blake: "Forbort lacks footspeed and has a low corsi number despite low QoC ratings"

Botterill: ::stares blankly::

Blake: "That's bad"

Botterill: "Can I go now?"

 

[Jim Bob]

Yeah I think Big Botts can swing some bargain bin deals for D-men, but that's not what the roster needs to be a Cup contender. He doesn't have to go out and try to land a Doughty, but a no-doubt top-pairing guy is what this team needs. I'm not interested in a project or a player that has untapped upside hoping to finally develop. They need a 23 min/gm guy that can also take big defensive match-ups. Botts can go dumpster diving for bottom pairing and depth/Rochester guys and that's great...not for building a Cup team though.

He has to flip Kane one way or another for that player. He might have to only take futures now, and flip them next draft. If it takes that long so be it, but some project or draftee that isn't Heiskanen or maybe Makar probably isn't going to work out.

I don't believe that Kane has enough trade value to return that kind of D.

 

[Paxon]

Yeah. When the Sabres find themselves without Josh Gorges, Muzzin will be able to step right into the role of 30-something, inadequate, overpaid, diminishing asset.

3 seasons at a $4m cap hit. He doesn't turn 29 until February. He's also a much better skater than Gorges ever was. There's no comparison to be made there. If we could somehow get Muzzin for Kane, we take it and run. Add some depth and suddenly we have a viable defense, assuming Antipin transitions as I expect him to.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't believe that Kane has enough trade value to return that kind of D.

Adding to Kane is a part of that equation.

 

[Jim Bob]

Adding to Kane is a part of that equation.

Try and make a thread that is Kane+ for a 23 Min per game D on the trade board and watch how many fans make offers.

Well, unless it's Kane and Reinhart for a D...

Only 33 D in the entire NHL averaged 23 minutes per game last season.

I doubt you get one of those guys with a package where Kane is the center piece.

 

[brian_griffin]

Yeah I think Big Botts can swing some bargain bin deals for D-men, but that's not what the roster needs to be a Cup contender. He doesn't have to go out and try to land a Doughty, but a no-doubt top-pairing guy is what this team needs. I'm not interested in a project or a player that has untapped upside hoping to finally develop. They need a 23 min/gm guy that can also take big defensive match-ups. Botts can go dumpster diving for bottom pairing and depth/Rochester guys and that's great...not for building a Cup team though.

He has to flip Kane one way or another for that player. He might have to only take futures now, and flip them next draft. If it takes that long so be it, but some project or draftee that isn't Heiskanen or maybe Makar probably isn't going to work out.

Sabres need both.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Try and make a thread that is Kane+ for a 23 Min per game D on the trade board and watch how many fans make offers.

Well, unless it's Kane and Reinhart for a D...

Only 33 D in the entire NHL averaged 23 minutes per game last season.

I doubt you get one of those guys with a package where Kane is the center piece.

Well I'm not into the trade boards as a true valuation of NHL players, and I'm not into making definitive trade valuations much at all. I also don't care if Kane is the center piece in whatever trade equations lead to a top-pairing D-man. It takes one GM that thinks Kane is worth (???) plus whatever to make it happen. One in the right scenario.

I can confidently say that if the Sabres don't acquire a top-pairing D-man somehow, that they will struggle to be a Cup contender over the next 3-4 seasons. Ristolainen and a mish-mash of #4-#7 guys won't cut it. Even if McCabe or Guhle develop into #3 guys it's doubtful.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Sabres need both.

Definitely true.

 

[Kublakhan]

people are talking that the kings are going to send Dustin Brown to LV with their 1st for a cap dump.

Then trade Kane for one of their D-men.. don't know how true this is..

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Jim Bob]

Well I'm not into the trade boards as a true valuation of NHL players, and I'm not into making definitive trade valuations much at all. I also don't care if Kane is the center piece in whatever trade equations lead to a top-pairing D-man. It takes one GM that thinks Kane is worth (???) plus whatever to make it happen. One in the right scenario.

I can confidently say that if the Sabres don't acquire a top-pairing D-man somehow, that they will struggle to be a Cup contender over the next 3-4 seasons. Ristolainen and a mish-mash of #4-#7 guys won't cut it. Even if McCabe or Guhle develop into #3 guys it's doubtful.

You said that Botts had to turn Kane into a 23 minute a night D.

Taylor Hall was traded for a D that has never played 23 minutes a night in his NHL career.

There is no chance that Kane has more trade value than Hall did.

Chris Tanev is a career less than 20 minutes a night guy and the Sabres would be lucky to get him for Kane.

The Sabres need to improve on D. But, there is no way that trading Kane gets them a 23 minute a night top pairing D.

Eichel and ROR might be the only forwards that the Sabres could trade to get that kind of D.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

You said that Botts had to turn Kane into a 23 minute a night D.

Taylor Hall was traded for a D that has never played 23 minutes a night in his NHL career.

There is no chance that Kane has more trade value than Hall did.

Chris Tanev is a career less than 20 minutes a night guy and the Sabres would be lucky to get him for Kane.

The Sabres need to improve on D. But, there is no way that trading Kane gets them a 23 minute a night top pairing D.

Eichel and ROR might be the only forwards that the Sabres could trade to get that kind of D.

I guess you really want to argue...

 

[darcyRegier]

What about Kane straight up for Montour?? Does ANA make that trade? Would much rather have Montour than 28 year old Muzzin.

Also I would love to keep Kane, but we just will not have salary room with Eichels 7-9 mil and Reinharts 4-6 mil. Also have to keep in mind that Alex Nylander most likely will be signing a contract worth at least 2-5 mil depending on how good he does these next two seasons. Throw in Baptiste/Bailey/Carrier all at least getting 1-4 mil depending again on how well they perform. Antipin could very well have a Zaitsev-esque season and that will be $4 mil heading his way.

We have our high paid winger in Okposo already. The next contract for Kane will be at least 6 mil, and this roster needs a worthy 6 mil d man more than another 6 mil winger.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I guess you really want to argue...

There's not much to argue, your comment was so far off base it had skis on.

I think it will be a good day if we get a second pairing guy out of him.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There's not much to argue, your comment was so far off base it had skis on.

I think it will be a good day if we get a second pairing guy out of him.

So you don't understand the difference between trading Kane alone for a D-man, and trading Kane plus whatever else it might take to get a top-pairing D-man? I'm not even saying it has to be one move either. I've said in another thread that the ultimate result of any number of trades Botterill can make in the next year or so should result in Kane gone, and a top-pairing D-man added.

If people can't grasp that and choose to bark about how Kane alone isn't worth a top-pairing guy then I don't know who they're arguing with, because I agree.

 

[Jim Bob]

So you don't understand the difference between trading Kane alone for a D-man, and trading Kane plus whatever else it might take to get a top-pairing D-man? I'm not even saying it has to be one move either. I've said in another thread that the ultimate result of any number of trades Botterill can make in the next year or so should result in Kane gone, and a top-pairing D-man added.

If people can't grasp that and choose to bark about how Kane alone isn't worth a top-pairing guy then I don't know who they're arguing with, because I agree.

If the Sabres are getting a top pairing D, it is unlikely that Kane has much, if anything to do with acquiring that player.

I think Kane gets moved this off season regardless of what happens on D. I just hope that the Sabres can get a 2nd pairing guy in the deal that involves Kane. That might be asking too much.

I don't see the Sabres having the trade assets that they are willing to give up to get a 23 minute a night top pair D.

Even if they move Reinhart, they aren't getting that D in all likelihood. The best I could see from a reinhart for D trade is a deal for Hanifin who is a potential top pairing guy and a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy to this point.

 

[Reddawg]

There's not much to argue, your comment was so far off base it had skis on.

I think it will be a good day if we get a second pairing guy out of him.

This was funny

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Snippit]

Kane's shooting percentage is low because he takes low percentage shots.

I could still easily see 30+20 from Kane this year

 

[AustonsNostrils]

The NHL-average on-ice shooting percentage for a top-six forward with Kane's average ice time is 9.2 percent, according to my calculations.

His shooting % last season was 10.8%. These advanced stats gurus bend stats to fit whatever theory that enters their brain.

He may have a breakthrough season because it's a contract year.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The article was written by someone who doesn't seem to watch Kane play much. He's focused solely on limited statistical info.

 

[WpgBuffan]

The article was written by someone who doesn't seem to watch Kane play much. He's focused solely on limited statistical info.

Rob Vollman wrote the article and is one of the top analytic writers out there.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Rob Vollman wrote the article and is one of the top analytic writers out there.

If you get your head out of the spreadsheet and watch what is generating the numbers, it's easier to analyze them.

 

[Snippit]

Kane scored 25/139 ES goals for us this year.

I really hope someone offers up a 1st in this draft for him.