Player Discussion Evan Bouchard

[guymez]

Dang. Bobby beat me to it.

Evaluation can and is done separately for all defenseman. Assuming Bouchards natural development for his age and elite draft pedigree is all because of Ekholm is one of the worst takes yet.

You are totally misrepresenting my position here.

No one is suggesting that Bouchards development in due exclusively to Ekholm. However it isnt a coincidence that his development was expidited by the arrival of Ekholm.
It makes no sense to discount that.

To pretend that Ekholms arrival was irrelavent in terms of Boucards development (ie...Bochard would have this trajectory anyway) makes no sense at all. It denys the reality of what actually happened.
Bouchard was bad in his own end prior to Ekholms arrival. You seem to have a short memory around that.
Bouchards development on the PP would have been delayed if Barrie had not been traded.
That we know for sure.

So it does make sense to properly evaluate Boucard as a dman without his mentor next to him.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Let us witness what Bouchard does tonight... shall we.

 

[guymez]

Let us witness what Bouchard does tonight... shall we.

What will will his perfomance in tonights game change?

 

[Broberg Speed]

What will that change?

it's not the points it's the outcome of the games and the series, Bouchard needs to play much better than he did in games one and two of the series so far against the Canucks

he had two great games against LA, Vancouver is a different team, so Bouchard has to up his game

 

[guymez]

it's not the points it's the outcome of the games, Bouchard needs to play much better than he did in games one and two of the series

With all due respect I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Bouchard has not been a problem in this series. Quite the contrary.

 

[foshizzle]

This is a very shortsighted post.
Are you aware of Ekholms history in Nashville?

If you were then you would know that Ekholm was the primary dman for bringing along young dmen.
Just like he has done with Bouchard.

Ekholm did not need Bouchard to be a better dman. That said playing with McDavid has helped both his and Bouchard offensive numbers.
Also...prior to Ekholms arrival Barrie was the #1 dman on the PP.
Since Barries departure (and Ekholms arrival) Bouchard was given those minutes. That has helped his offensive numbers in a massive way.

Talk about short sighted post. You clearly didn’t look at his numbers. His deployment in Nashville was being reduced over the last few years. His numbers against elites was decreasing and, like I said, so was his deployment. When he was moved- he wasn’t a top pairing defensemen. That happened here.

Also, you point out McDavid, that helps his counting numbers- not his metrics

 

[guymez]

Talk about short sighted post. You clearly didn’t look at his numbers. His deployment in Nashville was being reduced over the last few years. His numbers against elites was decreasing and, like I said, so was his deployment. When he was moved- he wasn’t a top pairing defensemen. That happened here.

Also, you point out McDavid, that helps his counting numbers- not his metrics

Come on man.
When you are helping to develop young dmen of course you arent going to get minutes against the other teams best players.

Pretty basic stuff.

 

[foshizzle]

Come on man.
When you are helping to develop young dmen of course you arent going to get minutes against the other teams best players.

Pretty basic stuff.

lol- what? Your post is ridiculous. So Ekholm is developing defensemen in Nashville and his numbers are down- but him developing Bouchard in Edmonton all his numbers reach career highs? The logic here….

 

[guymez]

lol- what? Your post is ridiculous. So Ekholm is developing defensemen in Nashville and his numbers are down- but him developing Bouchard in Edmonton all his numbers reach career highs? The logic here….

So you tell me why Ekholm would be getting 1st pairing minutes when he is developing dmen in Nashville?

Must be because Ekholm really needed Bouchard to elevate his game to a first pairing level...lol
Thats why Hollands traded for him. So he could save his career with a Bouchard matchup!

The same Bouchard who struggled mightuly prior to Ekholms arrival.
Ekholm was also playing on a deeper defence in Nashville. That matters too.

Maybe think things through a little instead of just glossing over analytics.

 

[Broberg Speed]

So you tell me why Ekholm would be getting 1st pairing minutes when he is developing dmen in Nashville?

Must be because Ekholm really needed Bouchard to elevate his game to a first pairing level...lol
Thats why Hollands traded for him. So he could save his career with a Bouchard matchup!

The same Bouchard who struggled mightuly prior to Ekholms arrival.
Ekholm was also playing on a deeper defence in Nashville. That matters too.

Maybe think things through a little instead of just glossing over analytics.

Bouchard isn't driving the play well enough from the backend. Not at a contenders level. If he can't do it he can't do it.

Bouchard should be washing Ekholm's jock.

 

[guymez]

Bouchard isn't driving the play well enough from the backend. If he can't do it he can't do it.

Bouchard should be washing Ekholm's jock.

I actually like Bouchard.
I am just not as enamored with him as foshizzel is.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Why is this topic being bumped and not the one about the 9.25 million dollar anchor?

 

[foshizzle]

So you tell me why Ekholm would be getting 1st pairing minutes when he is developing dmen in Nashville?

Must be because Ekholm really needed Bouchard to elevate his game to a first pairing level...lol
Thats why Hollands traded for him. So he could save his career with a Bouchard matchup!

The same Bouchard who struggled mightuly prior to Ekholms arrival.
Ekholm was also playing on a deeper defence in Nashville. That matters too.

Maybe think things through a little instead of just glossing over analytics.

Ekholm isn’t developing defencemen. Period.

Yeah, Bouchard helped Ekholm and Ekholm helped Bouchard. Holland traded for him because he was an upgrade on Barrie. They didn’t project him to play with Bouchard, it just happened that they made a good pair. But keep on going with the straw man arguments.

lol, Bouchard didn’t struggle mightily before Ekholm got here. Where Ekholm helped Bouchard, and Ekholm has said this himself, is to give him advice on using his strengths and don’t worry about mistakes because he would have his back. Maybe you need to think things through and see if it makes sense before making assumptions not based in any facts whatsoever.

 

[bobbythebrain]

You are totally misrepresenting my position here.

No one is suggesting that Bouchards development in due exclusively to Ekholm. However it isnt a coincidence that his development was expidited by the arrival of Ekholm.
It makes no sense to discount that.

To pretend that Ekholms arrival was irrelavent in terms of Boucards development (ie...Bochard would have this trajectory anyway) makes no sense at all. It denys the reality of what actually happened.
Bouchard was bad in his own end prior to Ekholms arrival. You seem to have a short memory around that.
Bouchards development on the PP would have been delayed if Barrie had not been traded.
That we know for sure.

So it does make sense to properly evaluate Boucard as a dman without his mentor next to him.

I know this poster has me on ignore. Just fine and dandy since he told me he knew more about the OBC based on his, and I can't quotation this enough.... """"INTERNET RESEARCH"""" vs actually actual facts I was privy to. Laughable and nonsensical

Bouchard was bad in his own end and learning more than...... no more than Q Hughes or Makar. or Burns(You all know that player Burns..who they made a forward cuz he couldn;t grasp defense?????) Development takes time to ppl who apply logic to these things, and it's not linear

FACT is Bouchard has ALWAYS slow played the forecheck. He got dropped several times trying to do so, no more than Draisaitl got absolutely obliterated trying to do the same thing in his first 2 years. If anyone has a working brain, they can recall Drai getting decimated in corners trying to protect a puck and being a rag doll of giveaways. He eventually got better. It's called..................................DEVELOPMENT


It's comical to see someone suggest that Bouchard DESERVED to be better, ESPECIALLY A DMAN, thru his his developmental years, and saying a single player like ekholm is the only reason he is good now, completely bypassing what is the most common sense notion that 99.9% dmen HAVE TO TAKE .....development

Give ur head a shake before posting. The internet doesn't teach you common sense

 

[guymez]

Ekholm isn’t developing defencemen. Period.

Yeah, Bouchard helped Ekholm and Ekholm helped Bouchard. Holland traded for him because he was an upgrade on Barrie. They didn’t project him to play with Bouchard, it just happened that they made a good pair. But keep on going with the straw man arguments.

lol, Bouchard didn’t struggle mightily before Ekholm got here. Where Ekholm helped Bouchard, and Ekholm has said this himself, is to give him advice on using his strengths and don’t worry about mistakes because he would have his back. Maybe you need to think things through and see if it makes sense before making assumptions not based in any facts whatsoever.

Nice narrative.
Too bad it doesnt line up with the facts.

You are entitled to think that Bouchard has meant more to Ekholm than the other way around though.
Whatever floats your boat.

 

[foshizzle]

Nice narrative.
Too bad it doesnt line up with the facts.

You are entitled to think that Bouchard has meant more to Ekholm than the other way around though.
Whatever floats your boat.

It absolutely does line up with the facts. Facts have actual supporting evidence. Your arguments are based purely on conjecture and your own hypothesis

 

[guymez]

It absolutely does line up with the facts. Facts have actual supporting evidence. Your arguments are based purely on conjecture and your own hypothesis

If you think that Bouchard was solid prior to Ekholms arrival then its tough to have a reasonable conversation with someone who has what is essentially a fantasy conclusion.
Go put on your Bouchard pajamas and have a good evening.
Cheers.

 

[foshizzle]

If you think that Bouchard was solid prior to Ekholms arrival then its tough to have a reasonable conversation with someone who has what is essentially a fantasy conclusion.
Go put on your Bouchard pajamas and have a good evening.
Cheers.

Again, yours is the fantasy conclusions because you are basing it on nothing. I’m guessing it’s your memory? Since you only like circumstantial evidence- Ekholm himself said all he did to help Bouchard was tell him to be who he is and not worry about mistakes.

 

[guymez]

Again, yours is the fantasy conclusions because you are basing it on nothing. I’m guessing it’s your memory? Since you only like circumstantial evidence- Ekholm himself said all he did to help Bouchard was tell him to be who he is and not worry about mistakes.

Yes...you do a lot of guessing.
When you arent doing that you succumb to confirmation bias.
Solid.

 

[guymez]

@foshizzle

What was the quality of competition for Bouchard prior to Ekholms arrival?
Take a guess.

Ekholm as a mentor....

Oilers Deal For Ekholm Puts Pressure On Bouchard To Step Up - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Oilers' Ekholm embracing mentorship role with Bouchard

"As you grow into the league - and now I've been in here for a decade or more - you get to learn stuff, you get to see stuff," Ekholm said during a recent appearance on "Oilers NOW." "It's not the first Evan Bouchard I've seen throughout my years.

"Early on in my career, I might've just gone on about my business and tried to make myself be as good as I can, but I feel like I've reached a point in my career where I also can make an impact for other guys. ... I just try to talk to them as much as I can."

Prior to their first outing together on March 1, Bouchard was playing third-pair minutes, averaging 17:42 per contest while adding three goals and 21 points in 61 outings, which translates to a 0.34 point-per-game pace.

Jekyll and Hyde- What should Edmonton do with Evan Bouchard?

Interesting. So many people just got Bouchard wrong...except for you.

Let me be clear here.
I am not suggesting (nor have I said) that Bouchard was garbage before Ekholm got here.

IMO he was a young dman with elite offensive instincts and holes in his defensive game.

As I have been saying all along...a solid high quality vet presence in Ekholm helped Bouchard solidify and elevate his overall game.
Its truly perplexing why you find this so difficult to accept.

 

[LTIR]

Played huge mins, scored a big goal bit damn Booch get your f***ing eyes fixed or learn to keep the puck in on the blue line better.

 

[foshizzle]

@foshizzle

What was the quality of competition for Bouchard prior to Ekholms arrival?
Take a guess.

Ekholm as a mentor....

Oilers Deal For Ekholm Puts Pressure On Bouchard To Step Up - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Oilers' Ekholm embracing mentorship role with Bouchard





Jekyll and Hyde- What should Edmonton do with Evan Bouchard?

Interesting. So many people just got Bouchard wrong...except for you.

Let me be clear here.
I am not suggesting (nor have I said) that Bouchard was garbage before Ekholm got here.

IMO he was a young dman with elite offensive instincts and holes in his defensive game.

As I have been saying all along...a solid high quality vet presence in Ekholm helped Bouchard solidify and elevate his overall game.
Its truly perplexing why you find this do diffiuclt to accept.

Here is a hint- quoting opinion pieces and opinions from this forum isn’t evidence. Lol. You’re essentially quoting people with the same opinion as you. Post evidence. Show me numbers.

 

[guymez]

Here is a hint- quoting opinion pieces and opinions from this forum isn’t evidence. Lol. You’re essentially quoting people with the same opinion as you. Post evidence. Show me numbers.

Prior to their first outing together on March 1, Bouchard was playing third-pair minutes, averaging 17:42 per contest while adding three goals and 21 points in 61 outings, which translates to a 0.34 point-per-game pace.

Also...just to confirm the above...have you looked up Bouchards quality of competition prior to Ekholms arrival?
Waiting.
In addition you made a claim that was clearly wrong. That Ekholm wasnt a mentor.
He was.

 

[foshizzle]

Also...just to confirm the above...have you looked up Bouchards quality of competition prior to Ekholms arrival?
Waiting.
In additoin you made a claim that was clearly wrong. That Ekholm wasnt a mentor.
He was.

Yep- I did. And you didn’t say Ekholm was mentoring Bouchard- you said Ekholm was developing defensemen. Changing goal posts now.

Also, I’m sure you were one of the ones who said he can’t play top pair mins- look at his QoC. Then you probably said “he can’t run the PP”. And now “he can’t play without Ekholm”. Wrong every step of the way

 

[guymez]

Yep- I did. And you didn’t say Ekholm was mentoring Bouchard- you said Ekholm was developing defensemen. Changing goal posts now.

FFS.
You cant even have a honest discussion.

Just too hard to admit that you were wrong...eh?

Below is what you said...

Where Ekholm helped Bouchard, and Ekholm has said this himself, is to give him advice on using his strengths and don’t worry about mistakes because he would have his back.

You couldnt even go back to when Ekholm arrived here to provide proper context.
I did that for you.
You just cherry picked something from this season....after a full year of Ekholm being here...to try and support your false narrative.