Esposito's Minutes Per Game

[BobbyAwe]

It's almost part of hockey folklore - Phil Esposito's long shifts. Have heard from more than one source that he would take 3,4, even 5 minute shifts. Don Cherry said "He wouldn't come off the ice" and that he'd stay out there many times thru 3 line shifts. Holding the record for most shots taken in a season (550) also would seem to lend creedence to these claims.

On the other hand, i'm wondering just how exaggerated all this is? I mean, you'd figure he'd have to have been on the ice 40 minutes a game if these claims were accurate, and there's no way i can believe that.

Does anyone have any stats on ice time per game for Phil?

(BTW, how do you post thread titles in bold? As you can see i tries the and it didn't work)

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[pappyline]

It's almost part of hockey folklore - Phil Esposito's long shifts. Have heard from more than one source that he would take 3,4, even 5 minute shifts. Don Cherry said "He wouldn't come off the ice" and that he'd stay out there many times thru 3 line shifts. Holding the record for most shots taken in a season (550) also would seem to lend creedence to these claims.

On the other hand, i'm wondering just how exaggerated all this is? I mean, you'd figure he'd have to have been on the ice 40 minutes a game if these claims were accurate, and there's no way i can believe that.

Does anyone have any stats on ice time per game for Phil?

(BTW, how do you post thread titles in bold? As you can see i tries the and it didn't work)

Don't have any stats but agree it is extremely doubtful that he played 40 minutes a game and through three line shifts. Bruins were deep at centre and I can't image guys like Stanfield and Sanderson would tolerate that.

Cherry is prone to exaggeration. Also, it doesn't say much for him as a coach if he allowed Espo to dictate his own ice time. If he tried that with a guy like Bowman, he would be parked at the end of the bench.

 

[Canadiens1958]

1974-75 Bruins

Don't have any stats but agree it is extremely doubtful that he played 40 minutes a game and through three line shifts. Bruins were deep at centre and I can't image guys like Stanfield and Sanderson would tolerate that.

Cherry is prone to exaggeration. Also, it doesn't say much for him as a coach if he allowed Espo to dictate his own ice time. If he tried that with a guy like Bowman, he would be parked at the end of the bench.

By the time Don Cherry coached Boston starting with the 1974-75 season Sanderson and Stanfield were long gone. The other centers were young - Andre Savard and Gregg Sheppard with veteran Walt McKechnie for a few games. Neither the depth or experience of earlier Bruin teams at center.

 

[pappyline]

By the time Don Cherry coached Boston starting with the 1974-75 season Sanderson and Stanfield were long gone. The other centers were young - Andre Savard and Gregg Sheppard with veteran Walt McKechnie for a few games. Neither the depth or experience of earlier Bruin teams at center.

Of course, you are correct. However, the story of Espo refusing to come off does go back to the Sinden/Johnson coaching years.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Don't have any stats but agree it is extremely doubtful that he played 40 minutes a game and through three line shifts. Bruins were deep at centre and I can't image guys like Stanfield and Sanderson would tolerate that.

Cherry is prone to exaggeration. Also, it doesn't say much for him as a coach if he allowed Espo to dictate his own ice time. If he tried that with a guy like Bowman, he would be parked at the end of the bench.

I've heard Sanderson say the same thing about Espo.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

(BTW, how do you post thread titles in bold? As you can see i tries the and it didn't work)

You can't. A bold thread title means that there are new posts since the viewer last opened the thread.

 

[Theokritos]

Harry Sinden was renowned for playing his go-to guys as much as possible. It's very plausible that Esposito would develop a habit of staying on the ice very long under such a coach.

 

[rmchahn]

I remeber before an all-star game one year, Espo reminded the coach that he expected to get his 24 minutes TOI.

 

[BM67]

I made a chart for the HOH Top 100 showing Esposito's PP usage, and he had 2 years where he was on for 100% of Boston's PPGF. He was on for over 80% of his teams PPGF from 67-68 to 79-80, and personally scored over 25% of them.

 

[seventieslord]

I would be inclined to believe what the TOI estimates say, give or take a minute.

If they are incorrect and he actually played way more than that (which would make the "legend" true) then it would mean goals for and against happened at a much less regular pace then when he was off the ice. Knowing what we know about him (offensive catalyst who was nothing special defensively and floated a bit) that would make no sense.

 

[BobbyAwe]

The record 550 shots on goal by Esposito would still seem to be a big indicator of TOI. The only other player to top 500 SOG in a season is Ovechkin (528) and i think Espo's season was only 78 games. How much TOI does Ovechkin usually get?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I would be inclined to believe what the TOI estimates say, give or take a minute.

If they are incorrect and he actually played way more than that (which would make the "legend" true) then it would mean goals for and against happened at a much less regular pace then when he was off the ice. Knowing what we know about him (offensive catalyst who was nothing special defensively and floated a bit) that would make no sense.

What are the TOI estimates for Espo?

 

[kmad]

The record 550 shots on goal by Esposito would still seem to be a big indicator of TOI. The only other player to top 500 SOG in a season is Ovechkin (528) and i think Espo's season was only 78 games. How much TOI does Ovechkin usually get?

He got 22:59 ATOI for that season.

 

[seventieslord]

what are the toi estimates for espo?

1968 0 bos c esposito, phil 21.320 15.867 4.000 1.452
1969 0 bos c esposito, phil 23.117 17.253 4.326 1.538
1970 0 bos c esposito, phil 22.695 16.360 4.597 1.738
1971 0 bos c esposito, phil 23.690 18.125 4.658 0.907
1972 0 bos c esposito, phil 23.816 18.680 4.322 0.814
1973 0 bos c esposito, phil 25.545 17.915 4.227 3.403
1974 0 bos c esposito, phil 25.310 18.882 3.882 2.546
1975 0 bos c esposito, phil 24.516 16.536 4.536 3.443

 

[bluesfan94]

Even with a normal TOI wouldn't mean that he didn't take exceptionally long shifts if there were longer than normal breaks between the shifts.

 

[seventieslord]

Even with a normal TOI wouldn't mean that he didn't take exceptionally long shifts if there were longer than normal breaks between the shifts.

that is very true.

 

[Big Phil]

Ice time officially wasn't tracked as an NHL stat until 1998-'99. Because of this, a legend such as Espo's ice time gets brought up. The same thing happened with Gretzky in another thread. People swear he played 40 minutes a game and there was a game when the announcer said he is getting his "regular 30-35 minutes". That is just totally inaccurate. In the 1980s they didn't keep track of ice time so even that announcer was making a guess. Plus, if Gretzky was on the ice chances are he was dictating the play. When a star player is doing this it always seems like they are on the ice longer since we notice them and not the plays from a 3rd liner.

Even today with ice time stats full in effect I swear when I am watching a Pens game that Crosby is on the ice every other minute - or Malkin. But I'm wrong. Unless it is an overtime game they won't even crack 25 minutes.

 

[Czech Your Math]

Ice time officially wasn't tracked as an NHL stat until 1998-'99. Because of this, a legend such as Espo's ice time gets brought up. The same thing happened with Gretzky in another thread. People swear he played 40 minutes a game and there was a game when the announcer said he is getting his "regular 30-35 minutes". That is just totally inaccurate. In the 1980s they didn't keep track of ice time so even that announcer was making a guess. Plus, if Gretzky was on the ice chances are he was dictating the play. When a star player is doing this it always seems like they are on the ice longer since we notice them and not the plays from a 3rd liner.

Even today with ice time stats full in effect I swear when I am watching a Pens game that Crosby is on the ice every other minute - or Malkin. But I'm wrong. Unless it is an overtime game they won't even crack 25 minutes.

It probably is mostly illusion as you say. What about the reports that Howe played ridiculous minutes?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Howe and Delvecchio

It probably is mostly illusion as you say. What about the reports that Howe played ridiculous minutes?

Howe and Delvecchio would play their regular shift, PP,PK plus they would be split for double shifts at times.

 

[Big Phil]

It probably is mostly illusion as you say. What about the reports that Howe played ridiculous minutes?

Like you mean 40 minutes or so? It is probably exaggerated. I remember a segment of Legends of Hockey when Billy Smith estimated (loosely) that Potvin had to be on the ice for 40 minutes. As a defenseman that is more realistic but at the same time it was probably more like 30. I can definitely see a workhorse like Potvin playing around 30 minutes a game.

 

[Killion]

Like you mean 40 minutes or so? ... I can definitely see a workhorse like Potvin playing around 30 minutes a game.

... ya, absolutely I could see it for a defenceman, not so much a forward or Centre and certainly not Esposito. Now if your talking AAA to Major Jr., then ya, some Centres' are "left out there", double & triple shifted depending on circumstances but at the NHL level, pretty unusual to see it done consistently. And if true as suggested up-page that Phil just "hung around on the ice" while Cherry was Coaching without paying attention to line changes or following orders, all I can say is that that is right out of order. I dont ever recall seeing it, and although Phil's ego barely fit into the Garden itself, I dont believe he'd be pulling stunts like that. Hell, he was just getting into game shape around February of every year. He was just so big, lanky & effective you pretended not to notice the strained, choppy skating and look of utter exhaustion on his face, sweat pouring down his forehead like the mighty Niagara. That guy double or triple shifting = Coronary.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

It probably is mostly illusion as you say. What about the reports that Howe played ridiculous minutes?

Except there are a bunch of reasons to believe it could be the case for a star in the 50s, while not so much in the 70s or later.