Esposito vs. Turris

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by hawksfan50, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    Over in the prospects section of the boards on chicagoblackhawks.com,I have been having a raging debate with an alleged paid hockey scout for some nHl team (he won't identify what team-but if he posts there could it be the Blackhawks?) as to whether the best centre in the draft is Turris (my choice) or Esposito (his choice)...
    I also state that it is only mid-term and that the other two in the top 4 centres
    (Gagner and Couture) have their champions and could rise or fall on the final rankings depending on how well or not all 4 of them play to the end of the year...

    In looking at the recent rankings from different scouting services,I pointed out the huge dicrepancy between the ISS (Esposito #10 overall) and CSS (Esposito #1 NA skater) and the closer postioning been then on Turris (ISS #7 overall) CSS #5NA skater) to bolster my forming consensus that TURRIS was the best choice between these two and in my opinion should be the #1 centre taken if I were drafting
    --but this guy counters that he is a professional scout,and assures me Esposito would score 150 pts if here were in the BCHL and that Turris was only a big fish in a little pond! He also states that he just spoke with the ISS and gave them his report on Esposito and had convinced them to change their ranking --IS THIS TRUE ISS,or this this guy not telling the truth and just pretending to be a paid scout --though obviously he is a big Esposito lover?

    I countered that Kyle Woodlief of Redline really dissed Esposito recently for his indifferent play and let outthat Redline did not have Esposito in its top 3...NOW I see that McKeen's has Esposito at #2 overall --BUT they also have TURRIS at #3 overall--indsicating a pick'em as preferred between the 2 is reasonable either way...

    Th stigma obf being "only" a BCHL'er compared to a CHL'er seems to have narrowed in the minds of most scouting services (except for the big issue of ut that this alleged paid scout keeps harping on to defend his boy Esposito against my hunch that Turris will be the better pick).


    There are a couple more interesting twists in this fun "debate" (much as he had in debates with the Toews vs. Kessel,vs. Backstrom vs. Staal arguments on the HF boards last year) :


    1. Esposito was sick and missed the skills competition held prior to the CHL TOP PROSPECTS GAME..which means IF he stinks in the game tonight he has a ready made excuse for poor play--so I hope that doesn;'happen--if on the other hand he can live upto his hype --maybe I'll consider changing my opinio of him...right now
    I agree with the Jan. ISS rank of only the 4th best centre (they have the 10th overall for Esposito;unlike ISS,I place Turris ahead of Couture but I agree Gagner is 3rd best centre ahead of Esposito)...

    2. The only possible centres of these 4 who can make Canada's u-18 team for the
    World U-18 Championships this spring are TURRIS and GAGNER --the other 2 are too old---and as old hands at this draftnik game well know the W-U18's provide a big last impression on scouts before they compile the final Rankings...as Gagner's London Knights no doubt will be deep in the OHl playoffs or on the way to the Mem Cup at the time,and Burnaby at the moment looks out of their divisional playoffs for the BCHL Championship (though I suppose they could rise to earn a playoff spot)-so TURRIS could be leading Team canada at the u-18's and if he shines there could moive himselfall the way upto #1 overall--or at least to a conensus 1st centre ranking...


    I agree--at this point nothing is really setled in this debate...coming out of last year I had Couture,Esposito,Gagner,Turris as the order of probable ranking..
    (though I really liked Turris and thought my Blckhawks would be picking about 10-14 and he'd be available then) --but the mono Couture had imparing his season to date,
    the terrific year Turris has had,the fact Gagner benefits so much from Kane,and the souring on Esposito by some scouting services--all this has skyrocketed Turris to a higher than expected position in my books--and now it looks like the Blackhawks will be drafting top 5 again with a possible shot at him or whoever they think is the top centre...

    Anyway--we all get a chance to compare Esposito (sick or not?) vs. Gagner vs. Couture in ther performance tonight--this big "impression" could have a big effect on
    the next rankings's from some of the scouting services...but my real hunch is that with a stellar U-18--Turris will leave no more doubts as to who will be the first centre taken in the draft...
     
  2. Louiss

    Louiss Registered User

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    Esposito is not too old for the U-18

    he would go if his team is eliminated in the first round
     
  3. phlocky

    phlocky Registered User

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    First, I doubt this guy is truely a scout for any professional hockey team AND ISS. If he were a pro scout for an NHL team he certainly wouldn't be letting his "trade secrets" out for everyone to read.

    Second, if you average the ratings of those 2 scouting reports, he is right, Espo has a ranking of 5.6 while Turris is a 6.0. If those are the only 2 you are going by then statisitcally you'd have to average them out. You contend that ISS is wrong in ranking Espo #1 and that because another has him ranked much lower that CSS's has to be thrown out. I wonder why you daon't say that because ISS has him ranked #10 that THEIRS should be thrown out (oh yeah, it's because it would fly in the face of your argument).

    Third, (and I can only go from what I've read as I rarely get to see these guys in action) Espo IS in fact the most talented player entering this years draft. He's probably the only "superstar talent in the making" in this years draft. He was the concensis #1 at the begining of the year for a reason. However, he has slid down that list for a reason too. He is lazy at times and needs to work a lot on many other areas of his game. The fact that he hasn't progressed as needed and expected and that he hasn't matured as expected has lead many to question whether or not he's a bust in the making (ala Daigle).

    As it stands right now, Turris, Gagner and Couture are 'safer' picks than Esposito. If Espo reaches his fulles potential then he'll clearly be much better than any of these players but the odds of him reaching that point are much slimmer than either of those 3 reaching their, albeit much less top end, full potential. With a top 5 pick, few teams would risk their pick on Espo at this time. If he turns things around and shows signs of improvement then he may go in the top 2, but I just don't see it as of right now.
     
  4. Adam91

    Adam91 Registered User

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    Turris team will make the playoffs, this year all the teams in his conference make the playoffs and his team last was average until a few weeks before the playoffs so will have to see if he'll be available for the U18s
     
  5. Kevin Forbes

    Kevin Forbes Registered User

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    I don't know how a scout for one NHL team would benefit from encouraging an independent scouting service to raise their ranking of a player. If anything, if I was that high on a player, I'd encourage ISS to drop the ranking so the player is more likely to fall to my team.
     
  6. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

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    adam91 correctly points out that all 8teams from each conference of the BCHL make the playoffs---I did not realize that when I looked at the standings and saw Burnaby near the bottom of its conference in points--however I also notice they have 5 games in hand on some teams--so perhaps they will finish much higher and not have to play one of the better teams (since 1plays 8,2plays 7 etc..sto start the playoffs)..so yes,Mea Culpa--Turris is not certain to be on Team Canada U-18 if Burnaby continues late into the playoffs because the Fred Page Cup (BCHL Championships) probably finishes around the 18th of april whereas the World U-18's start April11th...if Burnaby gets eliminated prior to The World u-18 then obviously Turris will be on that team...Esposito is born Feb 20th,1989--so he will be 18 prior to that tournament--thus I believe he wil lbe too old for the u-18 team,should Quebec's season be over by the time of the U-18...
     
  7. Chuck Schwartz

    Chuck Schwartz Registered User

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    If Turris played in the CHL we wouldn't even be having this convo...

    He's one case that I think he may have advanced his career faster going CHL over college. Not that I'm complaining as a Wisconsin fan.
     
  8. Adam91

    Adam91 Registered User

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    He looked pretty good in the BCHL allstar game last night. 2nd star. He just does everything so well offensivly, and makes it look effortless
     

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