Olympics: Enjoy it, Canadian fans, while we can...

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

(* Not sure if this is a thread, a speech or a "circle jerk" for Canadians. Maybe it's all 3.*)

I remember reading a Sports Illustrated article in the early 2000's that referenced the ebb and flow of international hockey. The writer wrote that when it came to international hockey, Canada pulls ahead and the rest of the world catches up. Canada pulls ahead again and the rest of the world catches up. I saw that as insightful because whether it is the bulls/bears of the stock market or the good and bad we go through in everyday life, that is the way life is. Everything goes in streaks/cycles.

Reading posts regarding Canada's possible submission to the 2016 World Cup and the 2018 Olympics, you can't help but be proud of the quality of our players. As Jack Slater said, the odds of Connor McDavid appearing in a Best on Best competition for Canada, within the decade, are slim. That speaks volumes.

As I predicted years ago (patting myself on the back because there were a lot of doubters at the time), in 2018 the gap between Canada and everyone else will be greater than in 2014. Given how many people/posters have predicted the end of Canada's hockey dominance over the last 40+ years, that is impressive.

As someone who is old , I saw but did not appreciate the other Golden Ages of Canadian hockey until they were over. The teams in the 70's were amazing but the Soviets kicked the snot out of us in 1981 - still stings. The mid 80's to early 90's were stacked but the Americans, Czechs, Swedes and Finns were about to ice their Greatest Generations.

So, to my fellow Canadian hockey fans, enjoy this while we can. The other countries are starting to refill their cupboards and the gap will start to close in the early 2020's. Then you, like I have in the past, might wish you appreciated how great we were when you had the chance.

Click to read more...

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

(* Not sure if this is a thread, a speech or a "circle jerk" for Canadians. Maybe it's all 3.*)

P.S.

If you are only going to make reference to the lines above when posting in this thread, please don't - I am sure there are many, easy quips that can be made. Perhaps there is nothing that can be added but I was hoping for something more insightful.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Yes, we should enjoy it while we can, because it may not last much longer.

Canada has some tremendous challenges in the years ahead.

Chief among them IMO is the United states. Huge country, inexhaustible resources and better then ever at developing and nurturing top end talents. Add to this the ever growing rivalry with Canada with 2 very tough recent losses to their arch rival that has hockey usa thirsting for redemption and their young talents growing up with the Canada wars and you have a recipe for some real barn burners coming up and dare I say, a legitimate challenge to Canadas hockey hegemony.Contrary to what the T.V ratings would tell you, hockey is indeed hip to the people that matter in the U.S and they desperately want to be the best. They are coming after us, make no mistake.

Sweden? they ain't going anywhere, such a wonderful program and talent for such a relatively small country. They love their hockey and know how to produce wonderful players, add to that the higher then ever competitive level that they have today and that I have noticed get stronger and stronger over the last 20 years and you just know they are a huge force to be reckoned with.

Finland, what can one say? just their goalie production alone assures they will be a pain in the ass and to me it looks like their skater talent is on the upswing too. You really have to admire them, they have a great hockey culture. The day they do take home a best on best tournament at the senior level is coming, and probably very soon.

Russia. Russia is Russia, still a predator, still to be feared. With the revamping of their junior system the future would indeed seem to be bright. They are not happy with recent best on best results and you can be sure they will be looking to correct them. We can't underestimate their talent and pride to right mistakes, to get back to the top level. They will be back and when they are are, batten down the hatches, you are in for a tough day at the office if you expect to win.

The Swiss are only getting stronger, a few more elite talents are all they need and it is coming slowly but surely.

Czechs and Slovaks have been in a lull but don't count on that continuing forever.

And Canada is not without it's problem either, as Canadian fans we can all name a concern or two that are vexing. They need to be addressed or we will suffer for it.

Long story short, it is going to be tougher then ever and in the very near future, so yes, enjoy it while it is here.

Now more then ever, it is time to circle the wagons and get the rifles out.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Yes, we should enjoy it while we can, because it may not last much longer.

Canada has some tremendous challenges in the years ahead.

Chief among them IMO is the United states. Huge country, inexhaustible resources and better then ever at developing and nurturing top end talents. Add to this the ever growing rivalry with Canada with 2 very tough recent losses to their arch rival that has hockey usa thirsting for redemption and their young talents growing up with the Canada wars and you have a recipe for some real barn burners coming up and dare I say, a legitimate challenge to Canadas hockey hegemony.Contrary to what the T.V ratings would tell you, hockey is indeed hip to the people that matter in the U.S and they desperately want to be the best. They are coming after us, make no mistake.

Sweden? they ain't going anywhere, such a wonderful program and talent for such a relatively small country. They love their hockey and know how to produce wonderful players, add to that the higher then ever competitive level that they have today and that I have noticed get stronger and stronger over the last 20 years and you just know they are a huge force to be reckoned with.

Finland, what can one say? just their goalie production alone assures they will be a pain in the ass and to me it looks like their skater talent is on the upswing too. You really have to admire them, they have a great hockey culture. The day they do take home a best on best tournament at the senior level is coming, and probably very soon.

Russia. Russia is Russia, still a predator, still to be feared. With the revamping of their junior system the future would indeed seem to be bright. They are not happy with recent best on best results and you can be sure they will be looking to correct them. We can't underestimate their talent and pride to right mistakes, to get back to the top level. They will be back and when they are are, batten down the hatches, you are in for a tough day at the office if you expect to win.

The Swiss are only getting stronger, a few more elite talents are all they need and it is coming slowly but surely.

Czechs and Slovaks have been in a lull but don't count on that continuing forever.

And Canada is not without it's problem either, as Canadian fans we can all name a concern or two that are vexing. They need to be addressed or we will suffer for it.

Long story short, it is going to be tougher then ever and in the very near future, so yes, enjoy it while it is here.

Now more then ever, it is time to circle the wagons and get the rifles out.

Thanks for the post but I have to disagree. I believe that the cycle will continue. The other countries will catch up and we will pull ahead.

You could make the argument that since 2002 (until 2018), Canada has dominated hockey like never before - or at least since before 1972. If you had said that was going to happen in the early 80's or mid 90's, people would have said you were nuts. Yet, here we are.

Don't sell us short, my friend. We will produce many great players in the future, they will dominate and do us proud.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Thanks for the post but I have to disagree. I believe that the cycle will continue. The other countries will catch up and we will pull ahead.

You could make the argument that since 2002 (until 2018), Canada has dominated hockey like never before - or at least since before 1972. If you had said that was going to happen in the early 80's or mid 90's, people would have said you were nuts. Yet, here we are.

Don't sell us short, my friend. We will produce many great players in the future, they will dominate and do us proud.

I am not selling us short, we will be in the thick of things as always. But we will have challenges, strong challenges.

I have two rules about hockey taught to me as a kid by one of my first hockey coaches regarding the opposition: respect your opponent, and kick em when they are down.

We should always never forget to do both.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I am not selling us short, we will be in the thick of things as always. But we will have challenges, strong challenges.

I have two rules about hockey taught to me as a kid by one of my first hockey coaches regarding the opposition: respect your opponent, and kick em when they are down.

We should always never forget to do both.

Amen, brother.

I can live with the "challenges" part. But, as I said, after the way all hockey countries progressed in the 90's, NO ONE thought we would dominate the way we have, for as long as we have recently. That is why I believe, as you said, it will be challenging going forward but we will continue to have periods where we are the undisputed number 1.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Amen, brother.

I can live with the "challenges" part. But, as I said, after the way all hockey countries progressed in the 90's, NO ONE thought we would dominate the way we have, for as long as we have recently. That is why I believe, as you said, it will be challenging going forward but we will continue to have periods where we are the undisputed number 1.

We will continue to be one of if not THE major force in hockey, however, nothing is assured and we will take some tough losses, how many is the question.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

We will continue to be one of if not THE major force in hockey, however, nothing is assured and we will take some tough losses, how many is the question.

I agree.

Hockey people have often said that the best thing that ever happened to Canadian hockey was 1972 and the loss to the Soviets in 1981 - it ended up changing the way we play the game.

Then, in the late 90's, after we lost to Czechoslovakia at the Olympics and the Americans at the World Cup, we held a Hockey Summit. People mocked us/it at the time but that produced huge strides for Canadian hockey and our Golden Generation - the one that has won 4 of the last 5 Best on Best and will, on paper, tower above everyone else in 2018.

The losses will be tough but we will have to ensure they make us better like they have in the past. Other teams will get better but we have to ensure it pushes us to be better as well.

 

[1Gold Standard]

(* Not sure if this is a thread, a speech or a "circle jerk" for Canadians. Maybe it's all 3.*)

I remember reading a Sports Illustrated article in the early 2000's that referenced the ebb and flow of international hockey. The writer wrote that when it came to international hockey, Canada pulls ahead and the rest of the world catches up. Canada pulls ahead again and the rest of the world catches up. I saw that as insightful because whether it is the bulls/bears of the stock market or the good and bad we go through in everyday life, that is the way life is. Everything goes in streaks/cycles.

Reading posts regarding Canada's possible submission to the 2016 World Cup and the 2018 Olympics, you can't help but be proud of the quality of our players. As Jack Slater said, the odds of Connor McDavid appearing in a Best on Best competition for Canada, within the decade, are slim. That speaks volumes.

As I predicted years ago (patting myself on the back because there were a lot of doubters at the time), in 2018 the gap between Canada and everyone else will be greater than in 2014. Given how many people/posters have predicted the end of Canada's hockey dominance over the last 40+ years, that is impressive.

As someone who is old , I saw but did not appreciate the other Golden Ages of Canadian hockey until they were over. The teams in the 70's were amazing but the Soviets kicked the snot out of us in 1981 - still stings. The mid 80's to early 90's were stacked but the Americans, Czechs, Swedes and Finns were about to ice their Greatest Generations.

So, to my fellow Canadian hockey fans, enjoy this while we can. The other countries are starting to refill their cupboards and the gap will start to close in the early 2020's. Then you, like I have in the past, might wish you appreciated how great we were when you had the chance.

You do know that these self congratulatory threads never last long... a few people out there with anti-Canadian agendas will always attempt to derail these and eventually have them shut down...

but while it's still open, yes! Enjoying the 3 Olympic gold medals I witnessed but wish the old man could have been here to see 1 with me. He passed away in 2001. He was one hell of a player.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

You do know that these self congratulatory threads never last long... a few people out there with anti-Canadian agendas will always attempt to derail these and eventually have them shut down....

Yup. It is only a matter of time.

but while it's still open, yes! Enjoying the 3 Olympic gold medals I witnessed but wish the old man could have been here to see 1 with me. He passed away in 2001. He was one hell of a player.

I am sorry to hear that, my friend. I enjoyed a couple Gold Medal viewings with my dad - and I wouldn't exchange that for anything. You just need to come home and not work so much - or so far away.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

I agree.

Hockey people have often said that the best thing that ever happened to Canadian hockey was 1972 and the loss to the Soviets in 1981 - it ended up changing the way we play the game.

Then, in the late 90's, after we lost to Czechoslovakia at the Olympics and the Americans at the World Cup, we held a Hockey Summit. People mocked us/it at the time but that produced huge strides for Canadian hockey and our Golden Generation - the one that has won 4 of the last 5 Best on Best and will, on paper, tower above everyone else in 2018.

The losses will be tough but we will have to ensure they make us better like they have in the past. Other teams will get better but we have to ensure it pushes us to be better as well.

The most important part of your post here is the last part IMO.

Canada has always had this ability to suck up and learn from losses and failings in the system. The humility to take stock and learn and regroup has been a major strength. We can only hope it continues as you learn more from your losses then wins usually.

I don't really want to single them out but they are the best example: Take the Russians, they have tended to still live in the past and have seemed to be more stubborn about making changes,though that could be changing now. There was always a hard headed reluctance to admit any inferiority in any aspect of the game, they have always tended to assume they were the most skilled when it was becoming more clear by the year that they were not. There has been talk of this or that as the problem when the fact in many cases was that other countries were just passing them by in the sheer amount of top level skill guys across the board. There is some truth in the arguments of lack of good coaching and wrong preparation but in many cases it has just come down to not enough world class players in all positions. The big red machine era actually has ended up hurting the Russian hockey system in the modern age, the head stayed in the memories for far too long and resulted in unwillingness or inability to see the real landscape today.

My guess is that the failure in Sochi will be the straw that breaks the camels back though and that they will now start to get it together. Goodbye KLM line, thanks for the memories!! We won't be requiring sweet mental flashbacks of you any longer.

Canada by and large has never had that attitude about it's hockey. They don't live in the past.

Canadian hockey actually has a bit of a bad rap when it comes to being seen as arrogant. A lot of how we see things and what we say about our hockey has more to do with trying to be confident going in, sort of like a Muhammad Ali psyche up. In reality most are pretty damn humble and realise the margin of victory is usually small and that to stay on top we need and must always learn from whoever we can learn from.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

The most important part of your post here is the last part IMO.

Canada has always had this ability to suck up and learn from losses and failings in the system. The humility to take stock and learn and regroup has been a major strength. We can only hope it continues as you learn more from your losses then wins usually.

I don't really want to single them out but they are the best example: Take the Russians, they have tended to still live in the past and have seemed to be more stubborn about making changes,though that could be changing now. There was always a hard headed reluctance to admit any inferiority in any aspect of the game, they have always tended to assume they were the most skilled when it was becoming more clear by the year that they were not. There has been talk of this or that as the problem when the fact in many cases was that other countries were just passing them by in the sheer amount of top level skill guys across the board. There is some truth in the arguments of lack of good coaching and wrong preparation but in many cases it has just come down to not enough world class players in all positions. The big red machine era actually has ended up hurting the Russian hockey system in the modern age, the head stayed in the memories for far too long and resulted in unwillingness or inability to see the real landscape today.

Canada by and large has never had that attitude about it's hockey. They don't live in the past.

Canadian hockey actually has a bit of a bad rap when it comes to being seen as arrogant. A lot of how we see things and what we say about our hockey has more to do with trying to be confident going in, sort of like a Muhammad Ali psyche up. In reality most are pretty damn humble and realise the margin of victory is usually small and that to stay on top we need and must always learn from whoever we can learn from.

This post will make Mr.Writer smile.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

This post will make Mr.Writer smile.

It really is not meant as a slap in the face, just a sober view of what i have witnessed from both their fans and hockey organization for a long time now.

They just seemed to get stuck in the past so much and read too much into results that had no true bearing on what the competitive balance really was in this day and age.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

It really is not meant as a slap in the face, just a sober view of what i have witnessed from both their fans and hockey organization for a long time now.

They just seemed to get stuck in the past so much and read too much into results that had no true bearing on what the competitive balance really was in this day and age.

I know but Mr.Writer is not overly fond of them. Shhhhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I know but Mr.Writer is not overly fond of them. Shhhhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

And they are not overly fond of us. )))

and really, I haven't been spending much time there in the past few years...no more than 2 or 3 months per year. I spend most of time in the true north strong and free these days.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

And they are not overly fond of us. )))

and really, I haven't been spending much time there in the past few years...no more than 2 or 3 months per year. I spend most of time in the true north strong and free these days.

Good man!!!

 

[Get North]

I agree we'll be great for years to come. I can see us winning every year with a core of Crosby, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Giroux, Weber, Doughty Pietrangelo. After that I don't know what to expect and I can't really see too much after that. I know we got some solid younger players in MacKinnon, RNH, Murray, Rielly, Reinhart, Ekblad, Seguin, Hall, Huberdeau. If we can continue developing star players and have about 12-13 Canadians in the top 20 scoring in the NHL then that should lead to a successful Olympic team. I see us winning the next 2 Olympics so after that we'll have to see what type of young players we have that can make the team aswell.

I feel like we are seeing the best Canadian team ever at the Olympics and we're only getting better. 6 of the first 7 players in the 2013 draft were Canadian! We also have the best coaches in the game. 2014 is just a sample of what we'll see in 2018 IMO, USA didn't get a medal, Russia didn't get a medal, we were always the clear better team against Finland and Sweden. We're only getting better aswell and I think this will carry on to 2018 when Stamkos is 28. We have a young team full of stars.

Taylor Hall might not make the 2018 team because of our roster! The 2014 Canadian team was a must-see team, dominated every game IMO. Teams had chances but we owned the games by a clear margin.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I see us winning the next 2 Olympics so after that we'll have to see what type of young players we have that can make the team as well.

Anything can happen, of course, but it's hard to see us losing in 2018. Be nice to win in 2022 - plus a World Cup, or two, along the way.

 

[Rob]

Agreed.

I find that many Canadians have taken our Olympic success for granted. Even in 2010 when we beat the US by an overtime goal. It may have just been the Crosby haters but many expressed the sentiment that Canada was going to win that game no matter what.

So I am enjoying being #1 while it lasts.

 

[zeropotentate]

Sometimes I wonder if we look back on our Olympic Golds and say "we dominated, and dominate Hockey" while failing to look at how close some of those Olympics were.

I mean in 2002 Canada lost to Sweden who were the favourites, we hadn't won a Gold medal in the Olympics since 1952 in Oslo, and we were hoping 2002 would change that, and certainly after Nagano, there were concerns that we might not win. Though, with the Belarus-Sweden upset, we kind of got lucky, beating them 8-0 rather than face Sweden again.

We don't like to mention 2006 but that year was just terrible, and in 2010 the Americans were dominant, and that Gold medal game could have gone either way.

Though we won in 02 and 10, I wouldn't say we dominated, not like 2014. I think right now Canada is safely #1 internationally, and is hard pressed to be knocked out of that spot, and 2018 seems like it will be another great showing. But if we look at our World Juniors Squad and how we are desperately trying to repeat former glory of a decade ago, if that sort of decline is heading to the best on best tournaments, it would suck. So, yes I think we should enjoy our time of dominance, but know that there may come a day where Canada becomes the chokers of international hockey.

 

[xxxx]

Sometimes I wonder if we look back on our Olympic Golds and say "we dominated, and dominate Hockey" while failing to look at how close some of those Olympics were.

I mean in 2002 Canada lost to Sweden who were the favourites, we hadn't won a Gold medal in the Olympics since 1952 in Oslo, and we were hoping 2002 would change that, and certainly after Nagano, there were concerns that we might not win. Though, with the Belarus-Sweden upset, we kind of got lucky, beating them 8-0 rather than face Sweden again.

We don't like to mention 2006 but that year was just terrible, and in 2010 the Americans were dominant, and that Gold medal game could have gone either way.

Though we won in 02 and 10, I wouldn't say we dominated, not like 2014. I think right now Canada is safely #1 internationally, and is hard pressed to be knocked out of that spot, and 2018 seems like it will be another great showing. But if we look at our World Juniors Squad and how we are desperately trying to repeat former glory of a decade ago, if that sort of decline is heading to the best on best tournaments, it would suck. So, yes I think we should enjoy our time of dominance, but know that there may come a day where Canada becomes the chokers of international hockey.

I get your point, but winning 4 of the last 5 best-on-best tournaments is still worthy being called domination. When Spain won the UEFA Euro 2008, they beat Italy in the QF game after penalties, and they won the final game 1-0. At 2010 FIFA World Cup, they lost to Switzerland 0-1, and all of their play-off games, including the final, ended just 1-0. In the UEFA Euro 2012, they beat Portugal in the semi-final game 1-0 after penalties. But the vast majority of people, including me, called them dominant, because they won 3 big tournaments out of 3.

So, Canada lost to Sweden in 2002. To the US in 2010. And beat the US just 1-0 in 2014. But we won 4 out of last 5 best-on-best, which is domination.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Sometimes I wonder if we look back on our Olympic Golds and say "we dominated, and dominate Hockey" while failing to look at how close some of those Olympics were.

I mean in 2002 Canada lost to Sweden who were the favourites, we hadn't won a Gold medal in the Olympics since 1952 in Oslo, and we were hoping 2002 would change that, and certainly after Nagano, there were concerns that we might not win. Though, with the Belarus-Sweden upset, we kind of got lucky, beating them 8-0 rather than face Sweden again.

We don't like to mention 2006 but that year was just terrible, and in 2010 the Americans were dominant, and that Gold medal game could have gone either way.

Though we won in 02 and 10, I wouldn't say we dominated, not like 2014. I think right now Canada is safely #1 internationally, and is hard pressed to be knocked out of that spot, and 2018 seems like it will be another great showing. But if we look at our World Juniors Squad and how we are desperately trying to repeat former glory of a decade ago, if that sort of decline is heading to the best on best tournaments, it would suck. So, yes I think we should enjoy our time of dominance, but know that there may come a day where Canada becomes the chokers of international hockey.

(Just general comments to follow. Not directed at anyone.)

Anyone who looks at the possible 2018 rosters will see that, on paper, none of the other contenders will have a team anywhere close to the same level as Canada. The gap will be huge and much bigger than in 2014. Based on that, you could make the argument that Canada will have dominated hockey for close to 2 decades. In today's day and age, with the globalization of sports, for a country of 30 million people, that is amazing.

A fact younger fans might not know...

Sportswriters/people were saying that Canada could never compete with...

1) The Soviet Union because of their population/skill advantage back in the 70's;
2) The U.S., Czechs, Russians, Swedes and Fins, back in the mid 90's, because of their population advantage OR because they produced skilled players and we did not.

In fact, Damian Cox wrote a series of articles on it (for the Toronto Star) before the U.S. won the World Cup in 1996.

My point is, people have been throwing dirt on the grave of Canadian hockey for 40+ years and we're still here, producing the best and the brightest. For all the Canadian Hockey bashers who think they are being clever, again, nothing you say hasn't been said before. No comment you make about the decline of Canadian hockey is original. The same garbage has been spewed for almost 50 years and we're still on top.

To your WJR point, zeropotentate...

In the late 90's, after our 5-peat, sportspeople were saying that Canada would struggle to win Gold going forward and never win 5 in a row again. Then, we did.

I get your point, but winning 4 of the last 5 best-on-best tournaments is still worthy being called domination.

So, Canada lost to Sweden in 2002. To the US in 2010. And beat the US just 1-0 in 2014. But we won 4 out of last 5 best-on-best, which is domination.

Yup.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Canada has persevered and come out on top at 3/4 last Winter Olympics-so credit is due there. There's also no doubt that Canada continue to lead the pack in the quantity and quality of drafted forwards and defensemen. Does that equal undisputed dominance? Not sure.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Canada has persevered and come out on top at 3/4 last Winter Olympics-so credit is due there. There's also no doubt that Canada continue to lead the pack in the quantity and quality of drafted forwards and defensemen. Does that equal undisputed dominance? Not sure.

What would undisputed dominance be? We have 4 of the last 5 best on best tournaments. Would we need to win all 5?

 

[The Bad Guy*]

What would undisputed dominance be? We have 4 of the last 5 best on best tournaments. Would we need to win all 5?

I think he meant in the future going forward.