Blue Jays Discussion: End of the Hand

[zeke]

Grichuk currently has the same 94 as Pillar had (only Randall was actually a good hitter for the first two months with a .839 and .804, then completely changed his approach and put up .666, .646, and .550, then is at .995 in September for OPS). His strikeout rates in the bad months were 25+ (except for August where he got sample sized on top of not walking). This month, he isn't striking out so far and he already almost has as many walks as July and August combined)

By the time the playoffs come around, Espinal should be available with his 103wRC+. Biggio and Valera have been a wash, but again, it has been a tale of two Calvins with healthy Calvin being good and hurt Calvin being an albatross.

Well I dunno if we can count on 103 from espinal and I have to heard anything about him coming back yet.

And I'm not sure it's even fair to just not include injured players for the 2015 team anyways.

Of course one of the annoying things about the 2015 team was that Gibbons (who I love) felt the need to have Revere as a "true leadoff" type, getting more PA than anyone that playoffs.....despite a useless .590babip. I was yelling at them to just shuffle the sluggers up a slot but aside from a couple of games they just wouldn't do it.Thank god this year we are smart enough to stick our worst hitters at the bottom of the lineup, not the top.

Anyways let me try again to compare lineups while factoring in injuries this time, though obviously this is subject to change:

1B Guerrero 171 ----- 3B Donaldson 154
DH Springer 138 ---- 1B Encarnacion 150
RF Teoscar 137 ------- RF Bautista 148
2B Semien 135 -------- DH Colabello 143
C Kirk 123 --------------- C Martin 115
SS Bichette 119 -------- SS Tulowitzki 101
LF Gurriel 113 --------- LF Revere 98
CF Grichuk 94 ---------- CF Pillar 94
3B Lamb 96 -------------- 2B Goins 85

C Jansen 103 ----------- 1B Smoak 108
OF Dickerson 94 ----- OF Carrera 90
C McGuire 85 --------- C Navarro 84
IF Valera 84 ----------- OF Pompey 82
OF Dyson 52 ---------- IF Pennington 57

So yeah 2021 starts to look a bit deeper with the huge downgrade from Travis to Goins....but then again if the Jays choose to start Jansen over Kirk for defense then most of that depth advantage disappears too.


But man oh man thanks for reminding of the idiocy of hitting Ben Revere and his .590ops leadoff all playoffs. That legitimately might be the reason we didn't win it all.

 

[zeke]

SP1 - Ray > Price (only because Price flames out in playoffs)

Unfortunate it's just not fair to assume that Ray won't flame out too.

 

[BlueForever75]

Unfortunate it's just not fair to assume that Ray won't flame out too.

Question was who would win. Based on what we know Ray hasnt flamed out yet and Price has on multiple occasions. Hence the reason for my assessment.

We can only assess what has been proven thus far.

 

[Discoverer]

Question was who would win. Based on what we know Ray hasnt flamed out yet and Price has on multiple occasions. Hence the reason for my assessment.

We can only assess what has been proven thus far.

Are we talking about a Jays vs. Jays World Series? Because Price has a 2.12 ERA in World Series games.

 

[hoglund]

Ray's manager Kevin Cash thinks that Charlie Montoyo is manager of the year, that should be surprising to many Jays fans.

 

[stickty111]

Ray's manager Kevin Cash thinks that Charlie Montoyo is manager of the year, that should be surprising to many Jays fans.

Cash is friends with Charlie so it's not unexpected.

 

[hoglund]

Cash is friends with Charlie so it's not unexpected.

I didn't know that, but Cash's team has the best record so wouldn't he think that he himself should win manager of the year?

 

[zeke]

I didn't know that, but Cash's team has the best record so wouldn't he think that he himself should win manager of the year?

(He does)

 

[MS]

Not a fan of trading 2 young prospects for Soria to let Overton go for nothing. Hopefully Soria proves his worth.

4 innings of shut out ball for Overton.
4 Ks
1 BBs
0 ERs
2 Hits

A tick up on his fastball too.

10 shutout innings now on the season.

It isn’t even Soria vs. Overton. It’s that they kept the useless Trent Thornton on the 40 man over Overton.

 

[Hoverhand]

What do you all think is the best trade of the Shapiro-Atkins era?

Ray for Bergen is an easy one, hell Bergen played more with the Jays post trade than he did with the Diamondbacks. Dumping Liriano onto the Astros and somehow getting a long term core piece in Teoscar is probably what takes the cake for me.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Ray's manager Kevin Cash thinks that Charlie Montoyo is manager of the year, that should be surprising to many Jays fans.

Not a bad strategy. If Charlie wins it, hes not going to get fired and therefore, Cash will get to face him for several more years leading to easier wins. 4d chess from Cash.

 

[Discoverer]

I'm of the opinion that the most important things a manager does are behind-the-scenes things we know next to nothing about: motivating players, managing personalities, etc. That stuff likely has a much, much bigger impact on a team's success than a few dumb bunts and some weird bullpen moves.

So I'm willing to give Montoyo the benefit of the doubt on that stuff - at the very least the players seem to really like playing for him - but at the same time, we can't just automatically give Montoyo extra credit for the behind-the-scenes stuff we don't know anything about unless we're doing the same thing for all the other managers. Remember when that Texas writer gave Michael Young a first place MVP vote because "You guys weren't in the locker room so you don't know how great he was there!" while lacking the self-awareness to realize that he wasn't in the opposing team's locker room to see what other players on other teams were like?

Having said all that, this team has had to deal with something difficult (playing most of the season on the road) that no other team has faced, so ultimately I don't care if he gets it or not. Just make better decisions on the field, Charlie. Ugh.

 

[stickty111]

I didn't know that, but Cash's team has the best record so wouldn't he think that he himself should win manager of the year?

He probably does but he won't say it or it might make him look arrogant.

 

[stickty111]

Buck thinking Correa is not a baseball player.

 

[tmlms13]

Colabello wasn't playoff eligible due to testing positive for enhancers. Travis was injured during the postseason. Smoak is the starting 1B on that team and Goins is the 2B. So adjust to that and the gab is quite big.

Colabello was fine for 2015, it was 2016 were he was positive, though he started to suck so no one cared.

 

[Bjindaho]

Buck thinking Correa is not a baseball player.

Me wondering whether Springer can bring him here

Let's re-sign Marcus and Robbie and have George bring Carlos here.

One can play SS and one 3rd and we'll move Bo to 2B. Just gotta pay enough money for long enough to make it make sense for both sides.

 

[tmlms13]

Ray's manager Kevin Cash thinks that Charlie Montoyo is manager of the year, that should be surprising to many Jays fans.

Cash is only a little bias lol.

Jays are winning in spite of their manager not because of him.

 

[tmlms13]

He probably does but he won't say it or it might make him look arrogant.

He also knows how rare (if ever) a manager wins back to back Manager of the Year awards, so doesn't mind.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[BlueForever75]

Who cares the guy sucks. Horrible player. Overrated.

 

[phillipmike]

Who cares the guy sucks. Horrible player. Overrated.

I hope you are talking about Simmons not Ryu.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Any word on Biggio and Espinal? Would be nice to have them back and have an even more stacked lineup.

 

[TGB]

Not much point speculating about playoff performances. Playoffs tend to turn the worst players into the best and the best players into the worst. You never quite know how the pressure will affect a player (unless they've done it a bunch of times and there's a history to work with). Thankfully, the Jays have Springer and a good number of the kids won championships in the minors, so that should help, but there is really no way of knowing how they will perform. Heck, the legendary 7th inning started with a ball thrown off a player. Who could have seen that coming?

 

[Hoverhand]

Those numbers are terrifying if we're going to use him on short rest in the playoffs.