Elmira's Arena may be up for sale again(UPD: Could be sold mid summer
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Turmoil like this will kill season ticket renewals as well as advertising commitments. Freeman got the arena cheap for only the back due debt if I remember correctly, and got the team for free essentially. The improvements such as the scoreboard were paid for by government money.
He made some money back by "donating" the team to the community foundation and can take a tax deduction of the full market value of an ECHL team (2 million $ or so?), thus writing off a large amount against any profits from his transportation business. The donation of the team was also meant to remove him from being the "fall guy" when the team folds since it is now community owned, so they can blame financial failure and lack of support on the fans and community.
The original deal did put the arena on the tax rolls for the first time so now he wants to get out of that. That makes things interesting. No way the team has all of a sudden become profitable, and per the "community ownership group" the team had to show a profit by year 3 or they would explore options with the team such as selling or folding. This is the end of year 2
Things will get interesting in Elmira again. Wonder if there are any backers out there to bring Robbie Nichols back as they have been successful running the Pioneers and getting good attendance across town at the ballpark running what is essentially the baseball equivalent of junior hockey.
He made some money back by "donating" the team to the community foundation and can take a tax deduction of the full market value of an ECHL team (2 million $ or so?), thus writing off a large amount against any profits from his transportation business. The donation of the team was also meant to remove him from being the "fall guy" when the team folds since it is now community owned, so they can blame financial failure and lack of support on the fans and community.
The original deal did put the arena on the tax rolls for the first time so now he wants to get out of that. That makes things interesting. No way the team has all of a sudden become profitable, and per the "community ownership group" the team had to show a profit by year 3 or they would explore options with the team such as selling or folding. This is the end of year 2
Things will get interesting in Elmira again. Wonder if there are any backers out there to bring Robbie Nichols back as they have been successful running the Pioneers and getting good attendance across town at the ballpark running what is essentially the baseball equivalent of junior hockey.
Speaking of junior hockey... Should ECHL hockey leave Elmira, I wonder if the arena could become the home of an NAHL franchise as that league continues its eastward movement?
GindyDraws
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It's all dependent upon cost and the ability of the new NAHL group to make inroads in Elmira.
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I like how he said this was a business decision. I think as a businessman he should have known better. He obviously didn't know that the hockey team was not supposed to be a money maker. Most minor league teams don't make money. It wouldn't have took him much time to get information like that as a business person. But even if you leave that out he didn't apparently do his homework on the arena needs more than hockey and the few events they have. I'm guessing the biggest events of the year(even with hockey included) are wine on ice. They don't do concerts. They do the craft beet thing and an outdoor expo. I know they had MMA type stuff and are having the globe trotters and they have the high school graduations and CCC. Even with all that I'm still guessing for about 300 or so days the thing isn't occupied. If they are looking at solely the arena and not caring about the jackals they need like indoor lacrosse, indoor soccer, arena football or basketball. They need more revenue. Not that I'm positive the area could support another team. For all they did to improve it they forgot the important stuff.
For as bad as we found things to be under Afr I bet they all wish they never did what they did. For as unethical as what he was doing was it was hidden and that kept a lot of issues in the dark.
To me it just feels like they didn't really try. This is only year 2. They are already basically throwing in the towel on everything.
Nobody around here has the kind of cash needed that'd be interested. If only they could get Corning Inc to buy it like they used to own the race track.
Honestly I haven't been to a pioneers game but I know when Robbie was with the jackals they gave out a bunch of free tickets but the place was often full. Now as I understand it they don't do free tickets. Combined with the team is not very good. Under Robbie except for the stupid Cameron year the team was actually really good and competitive. Now they have no hockey guy in the front office. Its so bad they basically had buffalo pick the coach. Robbie got guys like Marty, Bingham and Cameron. Guys that had been around and knew the scene.
I'd be all for it. Gave up my Jackals season tickets a couple years ago and drive to Canada to watch hockey now mostly. Although there has been a lot of shaky eastern franchises in the NAHL the last couple years. Aside from Johnstown and New Jersey not sure the other teams out east will make it.
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Guess you started a trend. I've been to one game these last 3 1/2 seasons. I wouldn't mind juniors but it'd have to be quality worthwhile.
If new owners could be found, a franchise in the OHL would be a good fit for Elmira. We are Erie Otters season ticket holders who live 115 miles from both Erie and Elmira in Smethport, PA. Having been a former Johnstown Chiefs fan, and having been to see several Jackal's games, I can tell you that the OHL is significantly better than the ECHL. Erie had the number #1 and #3 overall picks play for them last year. May of their players will be in the NHL next year or the year after. There may be a team or 2 looking for a new home. The minimum size allowed for an OHL franchise is 4,000. The arena would need some work and upgrades, but the OHL is much better than the NAHL. Would Elmira support a franchise in the OHL?
I'd be the first one in line if there was OHL in Elmira, I just don't see it happening. From a travel standpoint it makes sense for Elmira as we would be less than 4 hours from Kingston, Erie, Niagara, Hamilton, and the other GTA teams. It would also lock up the state of New York as an OHL territory. Small markets like Owen Sound and North Bay support the OHL with no problem, but that is Canada, and I have my doubts that fans around here would take the price increases needed to support the OHL.
It would be my dream though to have the OHL in Elmira, and, although on the small side, the arena is capable of holding an OHL team.
Major junior is by far the best product for the money for hockey fans, but it would take an owner willing to lose a bunch of cash at first to make it work here.
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I'd give it a shot though I could take or leave the NHL. The ECHL isn't all that different from junior hockey. The guys get paid and all but let's be real most are going nowhere. Juniors have better players and there's like no poaching involved. Trades maybe yeah but atleast the players are playing for their future instead of trying to rekindle the past so you might get a better effort and such.
I don't know it would take though with college already in town.
I don't know it would take though with college already in town.
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Interesting the difference in attendance this weekend. Last night like 2400. Tonight over 3200. They've had 25 home games already and average over 2,800 this year(that is way higher than I expected)though I think its flawed with just a couple of nights like tonight because they don't have many 3K games. Last year for the season they averaged over 2500 so the attendance is surprisingly up.
I forget what the owner said they needed to average after year 3 to break even. It was either 3K or 3500. One of the two.
I only being that up because the attendance is actually improving and they seem to be looking to bail already. I know the team and arena are now a separate identity now but if the arena isn't making money then the team isn't and vice versa. I'm actually surprised the attendance is up what it is. Considering the team is so so and has a bad home record. Including only winning 2 of their last 9 at home over the last 3+ weeks. I think averaging over 3K for a season anymore is asking a lot but they aren't that far from maybe doing it this year.
I wonder if they did sell with the identities no longer being the same what this ultimately would mean for the team. Granted I guess it'd be up to potential buyer and what the intent is. Will be different this time as there will be no auction since the reason for the sale is different.
I forget what the owner said they needed to average after year 3 to break even. It was either 3K or 3500. One of the two.
I only being that up because the attendance is actually improving and they seem to be looking to bail already. I know the team and arena are now a separate identity now but if the arena isn't making money then the team isn't and vice versa. I'm actually surprised the attendance is up what it is. Considering the team is so so and has a bad home record. Including only winning 2 of their last 9 at home over the last 3+ weeks. I think averaging over 3K for a season anymore is asking a lot but they aren't that far from maybe doing it this year.
I wonder if they did sell with the identities no longer being the same what this ultimately would mean for the team. Granted I guess it'd be up to potential buyer and what the intent is. Will be different this time as there will be no auction since the reason for the sale is different.
Elmira's best hope at sustaining hockey downtown might lay with Elmira College. A partnership with the college makes much sense. It would expand the college presence into the community, not just the campus. First arena would be a much better environment then the current rinks where the college team plays just outside of downtown and much of the city limits. Same goes for Utica, they support the D3 college team quite well and there is little reason why Elmira shouldn't as well. Another solid example of strong NCAA D3 college support are is Oswego and Plattsburgh NY. Both play in arenas with stadium style seats, and well attended. I am sure the FHL will come a knocking should the ECHL no longer exist in Elmira but the market should strongly resist efforts of the FHL. Until a solid plan for an independent minor hockey league like that of the SPHL arrives in the northeast cities are better off supporting their local DIII hockey programs. A pro league cannot exist in buildings with bleachers.
I'm good with EC moving downtown. I've been driving past First Arena the extra 25 minutes to the domes the last couple seasons and skipping the Jackals because it is more entertaining hockey.
EC played a game at First Arena last year and had a great intro video on the video board and seemed to have a better presentation there than the Jackals did and they went through all that work for 1 game.
The problem with this being the main tenant is that there are only 12 home games per season, and I doubt that would provide enough revenue to keep the arena afloat without another hockey tenant. Also EC tickets are $5, $3 for kids and students, and even cheaper than that if you join the booster club, so it will not be a huge revenue stream.
They will need another team in there, such as a junior team or another pro team that has 30 or so home dates to make things work.
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Don't see why the college would leave their current dump....far out of city limits to be honest. They play on it for a $1. That's tough to beat. A D3 team won't being in enough revenue to sustain the arena either. They have like half the amount of home games(probably even less than that)
Funny but I remember when the arena madness went on the great Nichols met with FHL people. But I also "heard" he tried to call that loser that owns the buffalo teams to try and get involved so lots of innuendo at that time which never know what's true though the former story was reported on by local media though they never said what the meeting really was all about.
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Well this is interesting from today's paper.
http://www.stargazette.com/story/news/local/2016/04/28/buyer-ready-first-arena-county-says/83651864/
Not sure if this would be a bad or good thing and no idea why anyone that has anything to do with the NHL in any capacity would want to do with a small arena in this little town.
If only Santuli wasn't a conservative republican the county would already be running the show with the place and this wouldn't be happening.
http://www.stargazette.com/story/news/local/2016/04/28/buyer-ready-first-arena-county-says/83651864/
Not sure if this would be a bad or good thing and no idea why anyone that has anything to do with the NHL in any capacity would want to do with a small arena in this little town.
If only Santuli wasn't a conservative republican the county would already be running the show with the place and this wouldn't be happening.
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"Someone with hockey experience and connections to the NHL..." has virtually no meaning at all. Hell, I qualify as "someone with hockey experience and connections to the NHL." 
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Heard on the news this morning that there was an appraisal done by the IDA last December and the place is allegedly worth $8 million. Somehow. I wouldn't have even guessed a million. That isn't the minimum asking price though(they didn't say there was one)though they do want a $200,000 check for "good faith" and last but not least the team isn't a part of the sale(bizarre considering this is the last year of the 3 year experiment)they are accepting proposals until June 24th.
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"Someone with hockey experience and connections to the NHL..." has virtually no meaning at all. Hell, I qualify as "someone with hockey experience and connections to the NHL."
Damn, I do to
I played high school hockey and I know a ticket rep for the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm a real hockey insider
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This is in today's paper. Slow media printing what was on the news but with depth and numbers and stuff.
http://www.stargazette.com/story/ne...-officials-hopeful-first-arena-sale/84848538/
http://www.stargazette.com/story/ne...-officials-hopeful-first-arena-sale/84848538/
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Damn, I do to
I played high school hockey and I know a ticket rep for the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm a real hockey insider
I'm not saying that I believe anything before I see it but man the county exec on TV again this week keeps reiterating that the potential interest out there are people that know hockey and have experience in it, he did say that one of the potential interested inquires was a former NHL player apparently which confuses me because nobody from around here has ever played in the NHL. I know that Craig Rivet played here his last season in the pros at the same time the arena issue became public. I highly doubt he'd be the guy but the only name I could think of. I can't imagine any NHL player even knowing there is an Elmira or a team here to be honest. It would be interesting to see **** they could do with money. Afr paid his coaches and got some bigger guys like Martinson and Bingham and I guess you can say Sweet Daddy Leo was probably not the cheapiest. He didn't pump much into the team but it was usually competitive. The current owners are doing it backwards and apparently they just don't have the funds to take the losses constantly. Plus the debt is still there for the mortgage. Apparently the IDA will be paying that off when the sale happens. Which would basically give the perspective buyer a clean slate. The current owners know nothing about hockey or sports but they did give the next owners a shot to succeed.
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Now no new owners until maybe midway through the season. Bunch of idiots like Santulli running the show who had no idea what something like this took.
http://www.stargazette.com/story/ne...er-first-arena-before-hockey-starts/87564644/
http://www.stargazette.com/story/ne...er-first-arena-before-hockey-starts/87564644/
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