Player Discussion Elias Lindholm

[Bleach Clean]

I guess it's all irrelevant until we see a number, but if we estimate his cap hit at $7MM, we're probably paying him almost twice what he's worth. that $$ could be spent on bringing back Blueger, offering Kevin Stenlund (big right shooting C that kills penalties and wins lots of faceoffs) a multi year deal AND resigning Joshua. Allocating a bunch of money (and likely massive term) to a player that put up big numbers in 2021/2, while playing with 2 play driving wingers but has faded massively since would be a mistake IMO. He's neither a top 6 forward, nor a selke caliber defensive stalwart.

Are you saying Lindholm is a true talent bottom6er now? He's still a top6 talent and producer to my eye.

If he gets 2nd/3rd line ES production and top PP time he would be worth that $7m AAV imo.

 

[F A N]

Has he shown you anything that leads you to believe he is a long term plug to our top 6 holes? He's been decent on the PK, but had no chemistry with Pettersson, Miller or Boeser. has done nothing to improve our PP. has been fine with Garland and Joshua (but no better than Blueger was).

Did Lindholm even play with Miller/Boeser? Again, we were looking to extend Horvat and there was no clear top 6 fit here either. More time with Petey might establish some chemistry. It's a bit hard to tell since nobody looked to have great chemistry this season with Petey.

Lindholm besides Garland and Joshua is clearly better. Maybe not chemistry wise but Blueger, while an underrated passer, is limited offensively. Like Blueger has 6 goals this season. Lindholm has 3 in the playoffs.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Did Lindholm even play with Miller/Boeser? Again, we were looking to extend Horvat and there was no clear top 6 fit here either. More time with Petey might establish some chemistry. It's a bit hard to tell since nobody looked to have great chemistry this season with Petey.

Lindholm besides Garland and Joshua is clearly better. Maybe not chemistry wise but Blueger, while an underrated passer, is limited offensively. Like Blueger has 6 goals this season. Lindholm has 3 in the playoffs.

They've played all of 2-3 shifts together. Even when we tried him with Pettersson, he was supposedly playing hurt. I also think converting Pettersson to the wing backs more sense than Miller or Lindholm who are both better centermen.

If we could somehow pull it off, a line of Pettersson/Lindholm/Toffoli could be dynamite.

 

[TruGr1t]

Has he shown you anything that leads you to believe he is a long term plug to our top 6 holes? He's been decent on the PK, but had no chemistry with Pettersson, Miller or Boeser. has done nothing to improve our PP. has been fine with Garland and Joshua (but no better than Blueger was).

He has been better than "fine". Lindholm and Joshua have as many goals as Miller/Boeser in the playoffs. They are the second line.

That line was also a match-up nightmare for the Oilers in the first game and basically ate the Oilers second defensive pairing and depth forwards alive. If the Canucks are to win this series, that heavy forecheck on the Edmonton defense will be a massive part of it.

 

[Bankerguy]

nux need to resign Zadorov and Joshua first but if they could dump Mikheyev then i'd be okay going 6 million a year over 2 years for lindholm but he'll get a way better offer on the market so slim chance

 

[PuckMunchkin]

in 07/08 he 82 points in 77 games. you're looking at 06/07, which was his first full season in the nhl. he scored 25 goals and was a +17. They also happened to win the cup that year and he was the team's scoring leader in the playoffs. i'd pretty confidently put all of my shit on Ducks fans being pretty happy with his performance.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Jerry the great]

Are you saying Lindholm is a true talent bottom6er now? He's still a top6 talent and producer to my eye.

If he gets 2nd/3rd line ES production and top PP time he would be worth that $7m AAV imo.

he was 91st among Cs is ES Pand adjusted for TOI he was 158th (ESP/60min). Our PP was cold when he got here and it's still cold.

His numbers have trended down two years straight and he looked disengaged all year until he sat for a handful of games a few weeks ago. He's looked a lot more engaged in the post season, while playing beside our best offensive play driver. If, and i think it's a monumental if, he plays like he has in the playoffs, he's probably worth the $7MM AAV. That said, i would have zero confidence this is the player you're going to get on a regular basis if he signs a long term retirement contract. When you look at our cap situation, I would put an extension for him low on the priority list (behind Joshua, Zadorov, Hronek) and i don't think it makes sense to sign this guy for $7MM (or close to it). Someone probably will, particularly if he maintains this level of play through the end of the playoffs.

 

[Jerry the great]

He has been better than "fine". Lindholm and Joshua have as many goals as Miller/Boeser in the playoffs. They are the second line.

That line was also a match-up nightmare for the Oilers in the first game and basically ate the Oilers second defensive pairing and depth forwards alive. If the Canucks are to win this series, that heavy forecheck on the Edmonton defense will be a massive part of it.

he's been the 3rd best forward on that line, but i agree, he's been good. I hope it continues and we get through the oilers. FWIW, here is the shot/corsi metrics from the game:

They've played all of 2-3 shifts together. Even when we tried him with Pettersson, he was supposedly playing hurt. I also think converting Pettersson to the wing backs more sense than Miller or Lindholm who are both better centermen.

If we could somehow pull it off, a line of Pettersson/Lindholm/Toffoli could be dynamite.

They played almost half an hour together. Shots/Corsi below:

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

His physical play/faceoffs last night were perhaps the single biggest reason for the comeback. He was laying the body at every opportunity.

 

[Jerry the great]

His physical play/faceoffs last night were perhaps the single biggest reason for the comeback. He was laying the body at every opportunity.

how can two completely separate things be the "single biggest" anything?

 

[MS]

I've been a bit caught off-guard by his physical play in recent games but it looks like it's a pattern for his career.

1.15 hits/game in the regular season for his career.

3.14 hits/game in the playoffs for his career.

That might be the biggest difference I've ever seen for a player. Crazy.

 

[arttk]

I've been a bit caught off-guard by his physical play in recent games but it looks like it's a pattern for his career.

1.15 hits/game in the regular season for his career.

3.14 hits/game in the playoffs for his career.

That might be the biggest difference I've ever seen for a player. Crazy.

probably more sustainable to only hit a lot in the playoffs. he is 6'1 and 203 lbs, not sure you want him hitting that much in the regular season.

 

[VanJack]

Lindholm and Big Z are built for playoff hockey. A lot of people couldn't see it, but fortunately the Canucks GM wasn't one of them.

 

[Jovofan]

I hate how many expiring contracts we've got to deal with this summer. I'd love to have Lindholm back, being able to roll 3 solid lines has been such a huge advantage we've hardly ever had on this team. I'd be willing to let Hronek walk if we could somehow figure out a way to bring back Zadorov, Joshua and Lindholm. Unfortunately, I think only two of those are a possibility.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

so petey is the alien but lindholm is the guy middle named zebulon


ok

 

[F A N]

I hate how many expiring contracts we've got to deal with this summer. I'd love to have Lindholm back, being able to roll 3 solid lines has been such a huge advantage we've hardly ever had on this team. I'd be willing to let Hronek walk if we could somehow figure out a way to bring back Zadorov, Joshua and Lindholm. Unfortunately, I think only two of those are a possibility.

Ya it definitely makes me nervous, especially on D where we have no young players ready to step/take on a bigger role. Forward wise I'm not too worried except for the 3C role. Otherwise, there are forwards you can sign to a short term contract to plug a hole.

 

[Mockhockey]

I would keep Zadorov, Lindhom, Dakota, Garland.



Loose Honrik, Desmith, Makehev(sp?)

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I've been a bit caught off-guard by his physical play in recent games but it looks like it's a pattern for his career.

1.15 hits/game in the regular season for his career.

3.14 hits/game in the playoffs for his career.

That might be the biggest difference I've ever seen for a player. Crazy.

Same

 

[Bleach Clean]

he was 91st among Cs is ES Pand adjusted for TOI he was 158th (ESP/60min). Our PP was cold when he got here and it's still cold.

His numbers have trended down two years straight and he looked disengaged all year until he sat for a handful of games a few weeks ago. He's looked a lot more engaged in the post season, while playing beside our best offensive play driver. If, and i think it's a monumental if, he plays like he has in the playoffs, he's probably worth the $7MM AAV. That said, i would have zero confidence this is the player you're going to get on a regular basis if he signs a long term retirement contract. When you look at our cap situation, I would put an extension for him low on the priority list (behind Joshua, Zadorov, Hronek) and i don't think it makes sense to sign this guy for $7MM (or close to it). Someone probably will, particularly if he maintains this level of play through the end of the playoffs.

P/G per 60 has to be weighted between true talent and trend. At one point this year, Mikheyev was one of the league leaders in G/60 until he fell off of a cliff... Clearly, Lindholm's larger body of work (beyond just 2 years) speak to his pedigree as a 2C on the low end. That's what VAN would be paying for.

I don't consider Garland a true top6 talent despite being a play driver either. This was especially evident when CG was given a run on the top PP. He didn't turn it around and neither did Lindholm (you're right), which is why I suspect the problems on the PP go beyond them.

At $7m AAV, to me, it's an automatic signing. He's 2nd in the priority list beyond Hronek (just imo). Whether he takes that is a different story.

 

[arttk]

P/G per 60 has to be weighted between true talent and trend. At one point this year, Mikheyev was one of the league leaders in G/60 until he fell off of a cliff... Clearly, Lindholm's larger body of work (beyond just 2 years) speak to his pedigree as a 2C on the low end. That's what VAN would be paying for.

I don't consider Garland a true top6 talent despite being a play driver either. This was especially evident when CG was given a run on the top PP. He didn't turn it around and neither did Lindholm (you're right), which is why I suspect the problems on the PP go beyond them.

At $7m AAV, to me, it's an automatic signing. He's 2nd in the priority list beyond Hronek (just imo). Whether he takes that is a different story.

if we look at his history, he is a decent PP producer with Calgary. if we ignore the shortened Covid season, he averages like 20 PP points a season. If Joshua can become a 40ish point player with Lindholm centering him, then it's not reasonable to think that he can be a 60pt guy for us even playing as the 3C.

 

[vanuck]

I've been a bit caught off-guard by his physical play in recent games but it looks like it's a pattern for his career.

1.15 hits/game in the regular season for his career.

3.14 hits/game in the playoffs for his career.

That might be the biggest difference I've ever seen for a player. Crazy.

And his hits don't need to be super hard to be effective either. He did a terrific job separating Lauzon from the puck on Joshua's GWG against Nashville in Game 1 for instance.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

And his hits don't need to be super hard to be effective either. He did a terrific job separating Lauzon from the puck on Joshua's GWG against Nashville in Game 1 for instance.

That might be my favorite hit in recent memory. Because it led to the gwg sure, but also he wasn't just skating hard to get on a guy, he was anticipating where the puck was going. Honestly, Blueger doesn't make that play. In fact i can't see any Canuck fwd except Miller making that play. I could explain why but i've already digressed this conversation enough. Go Canucks...

 

[MS]

And his hits don't need to be super hard to be effective either. He did a terrific job separating Lauzon from the puck on Joshua's GWG against Nashville in Game 1 for instance.

Totally.

His hits are so effective. It’s like watching a completely different player than the guy who was floating around for the entire regular season for both us and Calgary.

 

[VanJack]

It's almost impossible to overstate how disruptive this season has been for Lindholm.

I mean from almost the first week of the season, there was no chance of signing a new deal in Calgary. So it was just playing out a string and waiting to see which team acquired him.

Everybody knew they were trading Zadorov, Lindholm,. Hanifin, Tanev, and possibly even Markstrom. So it was basically a season of transition in Cowtown, and Lindholm wasn't going to be part of the future.

I think what we're seeing now is a player who's totally on-board with where he is right now....and isn't obsessing about his contract or the future.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I hate how many expiring contracts we've got to deal with this summer. I'd love to have Lindholm back, being able to roll 3 solid lines has been such a huge advantage we've hardly ever had on this team. I'd be willing to let Hronek walk if we could somehow figure out a way to bring back Zadorov, Joshua and Lindholm. Unfortunately, I think only two of those are a possibility.

If we traded Hronek, we could almost certainly afford Zadorov, Joshua and Lindholm. Assuming none of their demands of ridiculous. Unfortunately, that leaves us incredibly thin on defense. So it's not really an ideal position to be in.