Speculation: Eichel Mega Thread V

[Ledge And Dairy]

So you think evolving hockey is a good reference? Do you know who their model shows as the best forward in the league? I'll give you a hint. He's an Ottawa fourth liner who used to play in Nashville.

But you're right. It's the best thing to use... Goodness some people love to skew data to fit their narrative.

Actual NHL teams weigh very heavily scoring chances. Particularly high danger ones. Eichel despite heavy offensive usage surrenders tons of them. If you look at the 3 players the Flames just signed/traded for all of them have one thing in common. They surrender very few high danger chances.

What model are you referring to? Evolving Hockey covers pretty much every analytic out there. What you are arguing against right now is a graph based off information obtainable from every stat site. There is nothing skewed about RAPM, you just dont understand it all.

 

[Uberpecker]

3 months ago

Sabres fans: It starts with Laf + Kakko. +

Also, that one foolish Sabres fan. “They would part with Fox for Eichel”.



Also Sabres Fans: We’ll just trade him to LA for Byfield +++++++.

Also Sabres Fans: We’ll just trade him for Zegras +++++++.

I’m honestly ashamed to be a Bills fan with some of the moronic shit you Sabres fans expect for a headless Eichel. Your GM isn’t even sharing his medical records which is as big a warning flag as anything.

I hope you guys keep him. Let him have surgery. Let that surgery be unsuccessful. And then settle for a fraction of some pennies on the dollar for him because he does not want to stay in Buffalo.

Reinhart. Risto. An unmovable contract with Skinner. You have no goalie lol. What a sad, pathetic joke.

Just ask Brandon Beane to take over. Despite his inexperience in hockey, he’ll at least do a better job than the morons up there running the hockey team.

4 1st round picks or former 1st round picks. And we refuse to share his medical information?

f***ing morons.

I’m just glad I’m not a Sabres fan with all the garbage that’s been going on.

Why so salty? Are you one of those Rags-Fans who were salivating over possibly getting Eichel and are now already butthurt because it didn't happen for a bag of pucks?

If you're looking to switch allegiance football-wise I suggest one of the New Jersey teams.

 

[Double Dion]

What model are you referring to? Evolving Hockey covers pretty much every analytic out there. What you are arguing against right now is a graph based off information obtainable from every stat site. There is nothing skewed about RAPM, you just dont understand it all.

It's an NBA stat falsely applied to hockey by people who don't understand it. Plus minus can't be adjusted the same way as basketball because there are goalies. Also shot attempts are not equal. Shooters are not equal etc.

Actual NHL teams don't use it. Not at all. Send Chris Snow a Twitter message and learn something.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

It's an NBA stat falsely applied to hockey by people who don't understand it. Plus minus can't be adjusted the same way as basketball because there are goalies.

Actual NHL teams don't use it. Not at all. Send Chris Snow a Twitter message and learn something.

Lol you are clueless, the graph shows Goal For per 60, Expected Goals For per 60, Corsi For per 60, Expected Goals Against per 60, and Goals Against per 60. This isnt rocket science, you are just dont understand it at all. This specific graph is not adjusting Plus-Minus at all, it is showing where this player sits on a z-score graph, which is standard deviation. Have you ever taken a statistics corse? This is really standard stuff

I am quite certain Snow refers to this type of information in his analytics

 

[Kupo]

Why so salty? Are you one of those Rags-Fans who were salivating over possibly getting Eichel and are now already butthurt because it didn't happen for a bag of pucks?

If you're looking to switch allegiance football-wise I suggest one of the New Jersey teams.

Follow my post history — I never wanted Jack to begin with.

Have a mulligan.

And I became a Bills fan the same year I became A Rangers fan. 88-89.

 

[Zach716]

Follow my post history — I never wanted Jack to begin with.

Have a mulligan.

And I became a Bills fan the same year I became A Rangers fan. 88-89.

Keep up the tears, Sabres may have a bad recent history but Drury is giving Holland a run for his money this offseason.

So sorry he traded away your prime piece in Buchnevich and ya missed out.

 

[Kupo]

Adams: I want the equivalent of 4 1st round picks.

NHL Teams teams: OK.

Adams: But you’re forbidden from looking at his medical records.

NHL Teams: Ummmmmm

 

[Double Dion]

Lol you are clueless, the graph shows Goal For per 60, Expected Goals For per 60, Corsi For per 60, Expected Goals Against per 60, and Goals Against per 60. This isnt rocket science, you are just dont understand it at all. This specific graph is not adjusting Plus-Minus at all, it is showing where this player sits on a z-score graph, which is standard deviation. Have you ever taken a statistics corse? This is really standard stuff

I am quite certain Snow refers to this type of information in his analytics

No I understand it, you don't understand it. RAPM is essentially adjusted corsi. But it's deeply flawed. Do you think Auston Watson is the most beneficial forward in the league? That's what the site you're using shows. Everyone and their dog has taken a stat class. It doesn't mean you know Jack about what data matters and how to organize it in hockey.

Contact Snow. You'll see the number 1 criteria they use is HDSCF and HDSCA. They then adjust it to teammate, opposition and usage. Eichel fares well in HDSCF as expected with his usage and talent level. He fares poorly as HDSCA like bad defensive players do.

Players like Aho, Barkov, Point, Crosby, Bergeron ect. fare well in both. Those are the kinds of players I'd gut my team for.

 

[Kupo]

Keep up the tears, Sabres may have a bad recent history but Drury is giving Holland a run for his money this offseason.

So sorry he traded away your prime piece in Buchnevich and ya missed out.

What does Buch have to do with Eichel?

Nothing.

Move the goal posts all you want.

 

[bsu]

I actually now think he'll be in anaheim

 

[Zach716]

What does Buch have to do with Eichel?

Nothing.

Move the goal posts all you want.

Most of you Rags fans offered him and a shuffling deck of other garbage in return. Yet, you want to say Sabres fans are delusional. Self awareness lvl 0.

 

[thaman8765678]

He is coming off an injury, hard to pay full value if you don't know how he will play when he returns.

 

[Kupo]

Most of you Rags fans offered him and a shuffling deck of other garbage in return. Yet, you want to say Sabres fans are delusional. Self awareness lvl 0.

I’m not one of those posters... Soooo...

Ive made it clear that guys like Strome and Buch make very little sense in a trade for Eichel because of their contract status.

What many Rangers fans have been saying is - Here’s what we’re willing to offer. If that’s not sufficient for Eichel — oh well.

There are posters on your board who wholeheartedly believe Fox, or Lafreniere+Kakko is a good starting point for a guy your GM isn’t willing to share prevalent medical information on.

There are unexpected returns from all fanbases ... The fact that Eichel hasn’t been moved yet is leading me to believe that the expectations from your side doesn’t jive with any fanbase, or GM from every other team in the league. That’s a fact. If it wasn’t, Jack would have been moved by now.

 

[Bert Mckrakken]

 

[Alluckks]

I'm not sure why I keep clicking these threads. I swear half of these posts are actively lowering my IQ when I read them.

Oof, don't have those to spare!

 

[Shark Finn]

Follow my post history — I never wanted Jack to begin with.

Have a mulligan.

And I became a Bills fan the same year I became A Rangers fan. 88-89.

Man, for a person your age you seem a tad too childish.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

No I understand it, you don't understand it. RAPM is essentially adjusted corsi. But it's deeply flawed. Do you think Auston Watson is the most beneficial forward in the league? That's what the site you're using shows. Everyone and their dog has taken a stat class. It doesn't mean you know Jack about what data matters and how to organize it in hockey.

Contact Snow. You'll see the number 1 criteria they use is HDSCF and HDSCA. They then adjust it to teammate, opposition and usage. Eichel fares well in HDSCF as expected with his usage and talent level. He fares poorly as HDSCA like bad defensive players do.

Players like Aho, Barkov, Point, Crosby, Bergeron ect. fare well in both. Those are the kinds of players I'd gut my team for.

1. Watson has horrible RAPM numbers, are you confusing this with GAR and WAR? I can show you Watson's RAPM graph if you want its awful
2. You think Snow only looks at High Danger? I can definitely tell you that all on ice situations matter to him
3. If you put so much value is High Danger then explain why Eichel's HDCF puts him in line with most of our top 6 and his HDCA is right around our best 2-way top end players (Backlund, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Frolik)

In both cases He is still well above Monahan who he would be replacing on the current roster

 

[truthbluth]

Guys, the Erik Karlsson trade happened in September. Matt Duchene was November. Adams has done well by not panicking. Let the other GMs sweat as the season approaches

 

[Circus86]

Keep up the tears, Sabres may have a bad recent history but Drury is giving Holland a run for his money this offseason.

So sorry he traded away your prime piece in Buchnevich and ya missed out.

Recent? The entire Sabres history is bad except maybe 1 or 2 seasons lol. Happy we didn't go for Eichel. Never wanted him to begin with. Let him stay in Buffalo, let's see how that goes.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

What did I say is inaccurate?

What you said is inaccurate is that you think every Sabres poster and fan is of a hive mind.

But keep thinking that you personally are better because you cheer for the Rangers instead of the Sabres.

 

[Synergy27]

Guys, the Erik Karlsson trade happened in September. Matt Duchene was November. Adams has done well by not panicking. Let the other GMs sweat as the season approaches

You may be right, but what other GMs are "sweating". Which, besides Buffalo, is hanging their near-term success around the resolution of the Jack Eichel debacle? Can Eichel even help an NHL team this season given where he stands with his injury?

Really, really hoping my Rangers avoid this ticking time bomb.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Buffalo need a vet starter. Jackets need a 1C and have a lot of cap space. Eichel missing most of next season wouldnt even be a problem with Columbus currently re-tooling.

Just makes too much sense, so i hope they'll get back to it

 

[Kshahdoo]

Thread #5, and Eichel is still not traded...

 

[JTRAIN1966]

Buffalo will get a slightly better return on the trade of Eichel than, what they got for O'Reilly .

Meaning......a way better prospect than, Tage Thompson .

 

[thewookie1]

From Vegas: Krebs, Tuch, Smith, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd

or

From Anaheim: Zegras, Henrique, Lundstrom, (Top 10 Protected) 2022 1st


Both are fair trades and both give Buffalo a potential future 1C, a vital piece.

I know Anaheim has said Zegras is a no-go but with Mason McTavish now in their system and an unusual age spacing of their key pieces; Eichel would be an immediate 1C versus waiting on Zegras to hopefully get there.