Elks: Edmonton Eskimo Thread: 2018 Edition

[Stoneman89]

You beat me to the punch on this guy because I just spotted this article a few minutes ago and was going to post it.
Los Angeles Chargers undrafted rookie profile: Eli Jenkins

He comes from a smaller school but his stats are unreal. He has good size and great running ability (at least according to the stats) which never hurts your chances in the CFL. His resume sounds a little bit like Franklin's. I don't know how this will turn out but at first glance it looks like a good signing.

Most times it's all about what's between the ears. Lots of guys with good arms and physical attributes that can never grasp the intricacies of the pro game, and the CFL game in particular.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not sure what you mean by the bolded. No one said he should start a bunch of games and be a starter. Of course he was the backup and didn't start games, or get into them. Most of the issues stem from him getting practically zero playing time when Reilly certainly could have used a well earned break.

Yep. Doesn't backup infer getting some downs. This team under Maas not even using Franklin in run series or in short yd situations as almost every other club does to mix it up. Franklin carrying a clipboard and not even seeing the field for a dozen games at a time. That's not treating a player like a back up, its completely disregarding a player and giving him little chance.

 

[abootzky]

Some of you believe that James Franklin should've seen the field more than he did the last 2 seasons and I don't completely disagree with you there. The point I've been trying to make is that he was used in a way that a lot of backup QB's have been over the years and that being the professional that he is, he doesn't feel like he was mistreated or that his development was stunted. Do you think he'd be attracting the NFL & CFL interest that he is if that was the case? If I was his agent I'd be selling the facts which are that he's learned a lot about being a pro and that he has withstood very little in the way of wear & tear on his body. And that's on top of the athleticism and strong mindset he arrived here with in the first place.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Some of you believe that James Franklin should've seen the field more than he did the last 2 seasons and I don't completely disagree with you there. The point I've been trying to make is that he was used in a way that a lot of backup QB's have been over the years and that being the professional that he is, he doesn't feel like he was mistreated or that his development was stunted. Do you think he'd be attracting the NFL & CFL interest that he is if that was the case? If I was his agent I'd be selling the facts which are that he's learned a lot about being a pro and that he has withstood very little in the way of wear & tear on his body. And that's on top of the athleticism and strong mindset he arrived here with in the first place.

Because of my wording I think you took what I meant differently than what I intended to state. No I don't think Franklin would have a narrative of feeling mistreated, he's not at all that type. He's clearly a glass full person all day. I mean here he is talking about the fun and importance of sending plays into the receivers. Not everybody is like that. He's a QB that fully knows his skill level, he knows he could have accomplished a lot here, and he's a competitor, and wants to be playing. Of course his situation here wasn't as good as it could have been. But he won't say that.

I don't know how you think that the Eskimos use of Franklin helped him get NFL auditions. I actually think how much reps he got will hinder how far he goes or what kind of consideration he gets. For sure he doesn't have a Ricky Ray type shot in the NFL. In NFL depth charts depending what you've shown you can have different qualifications in camp. If you're a Flutie obviously you are go to in NFL camp. The org has a huge eye on you. If you're a QB from the CFL that has barely got on the field the past 3 seasons there are HUGE question marks, then the player suddenly becomes the long ago college prospect that hadn't made any noise since college. Your audition in TC is more of a bit part. You're essentially in that position a little better than a walk on. You're not a high prospect anymore even if you were. Football world is all about what have you done the last couple years.

In short if Franklin does anything other than be amazing everytime he touches the ball in NFL camp he won't get a sniff, won't get a game rep, and he'll be right back in the CFL. I would bet on it.

You gave the Esks the out that this wasn't really a trade, that Franklin is gone to NFL and Argos only get negotiating rights as if to suggest that's all the Argos have. The reality is the Argos have Franklin, as a player, if he's wanting to continue to play football, because it won't likely be in the NFL. The Argos got a ringer QB, and they are set at the position because of this deal for the next half dozen years. That's how I see it.

 

[joestevens29]

Some of you believe that James Franklin should've seen the field more than he did the last 2 seasons and I don't completely disagree with you there. The point I've been trying to make is that he was used in a way that a lot of backup QB's have been over the years and that being the professional that he is, he doesn't feel like he was mistreated or that his development was stunted. Do you think he'd be attracting the NFL & CFL interest that he is if that was the case? If I was his agent I'd be selling the facts which are that he's learned a lot about being a pro and that he has withstood very little in the way of wear & tear on his body. And that's on top of the athleticism and strong mindset he arrived here with in the first place.

Is Franklin not in the same boat as Reilly was in BC? It's just one of those is what it is situations as the guy in front of you is the guy.

Luckily for Franklin he's also having that NFL interest. I don't remember Reilly having any when we got him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

^^^The other answer is Franklin has NOT been used here like most "back up" QB's were used. He saw less downs than almost anybody during his tenure here. That's why the discussion is going on. Man. freaking Masoli got a starting gig in this league during Franklins tenure. Franklin could blow Masoli out of the water.

But mostly a lot of teams bring guys in for short yd situations or for run series situations or for any such schemes that are different than the typical set. So that the guys get some reps and at least feel in the games and like they played some ball. The Eskimos were even giving that assignment to Jordan Lynch, who was 3rd on the depth chart, yet was seeing more downs, and much more regularly than Franklin was. When you read that what I'm saying should be clear.

 

[joestevens29]

The shorter answer is Franklin has NOT been used here like most "back up" QB's were used. He saw less downs than almost anybody during his tenure here. That's why the discussion is going on. Man. freaking Masoli got a starting gig in this league during Franklins tenure. Franklin could blow Masoli out of the water.

But mostly a lot of teams bring guys in for short yd situations or for run series situations or for any such schemes that are different than the typical set. So that the guys get some reps and at least feel in the games and like they played some ball. The Eskimos were even giving that assignment to Jordan Lynch, who was 3rd on the depth chart, yet was seeing more downs, and much more regularly than Franklin was. When you read that what I'm saying should be clear.

I never bought into the short yardage QB's. Don't see much at all in the NFL. Not sure why it's a thing in the CFL.

The only reason other QB's got time is because the guys in front of them sucked or got hurt or the team was doing horrid. There is zero reason to play a backup just because you feel he should get some plays. Not when the guy in front of him is a warrior that wins games on his own.

No team should ever do that.

 

[MoontoScott]

Is Franklin not in the same boat as Reilly was in BC? It's just one of those is what it is situations as the guy in front of you is the guy.

Luckily for Franklin he's also having that NFL interest. I don't remember Reilly having any when we got him.

Reilly does not have the arm strength to warrant consideration in the NFL. He's a good CFL QB but that was always top end for him. Franklin might have a shot but is still a long way from even landing a back up spot down South. Regardless, I think he will get a good look and probably end up as a last day NFL cut. We'll see, its been a long time since a backup QB garnered this much discussion in Edmonton. Within a year we will know if it was all just talk.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I never bought into the short yardage QB's. Don't see much at all in the NFL. Not sure why it's a thing in the CFL.

The only reason other QB's got time is because the guys in front of them sucked or got hurt or the team was doing horrid. There is zero reason to play a backup just because you feel he should get some plays. Not when the guy in front of him is a warrior that wins games on his own.

No team should ever do that.

Couldn't disagree more. Most CFL clubs in the league have regularly utilized throwing in a backup QB to give the opponent D something different to look at, respond to, and practice for. you do it for somewhat similar reasons that you throw the odd stunt play in there. To give opponents a lot on game film to have to look at and prepare for, and a lot of options for your own team when things aren't working out.

We had a 6 game brutal slide here where things weren't working out which ultimately cost what would otherwise probably be first place. You think there as no moment there in which it would have made sense to insert Franklin in there more than once?

 

[joestevens29]

Reilly does not have the arm strength to warrant consideration in the NFL. He's a good CFL QB but that was always top end for him. Franklin might have a shot but is still a long way from even landing a back up spot down South. Regardless, I think he will get a good look and probably end up as a last day NFL cut. We'll see, its been a long time since a backup QB garnered this much discussion in Edmonton. Within a year we will know if it was all just talk.

It's a tough gig. I just don't know that he's going to be viewed that well down there. Especially considering he really hasn't done anything up here. Teams generally have their picks playing in that backup or third strong slot and then a vet in the other.

The other issue is which I as a NFL fan find intriguing is there are quite a few guys that could be done with their current teams and could very will be signing as backups next year with others. Thus making it harder for a guy like Lynch to grab a spot.

I just hope for his sake he doesn't end up in Cleveland.

 

[joestevens29]

Couldn't disagree more. Most CFL clubs in the league have regularly utilized throwing in a backup QB to give the opponent D something different to look at, respond to, and practice for. you do it for somewhat similar reasons that you throw the odd stunt play in there. To give opponents a lot on game film to have to look at and prepare for, and a lot of options for your own team when things aren't working out.

We had a 6 game brutal slide here where things weren't working out which ultimately cost what would otherwise probably be first place. You think there as no moment there in which it would have made sense to insert Franklin in there more than once?

It happens on teams that don't have a legit starter. CGY and TOR sure as hell didn't do this.

Even BC after Jennings was back how much did Lulay really play?

Again there is no reason to put a worse option in. If your QB can't show the d something different he isn't a good QB.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The most formidable team in CFL history, and that ever will be, had Wilkinson and Moon in tandem and a combination that was unstoppable and the potentials of which overwhelmed every D in the league for more than 5 seasons.

Afairc you're too young to have witnessed that. But if you saw that I doubt you would have the same position on this that you do. Essentially you are saying there was no valid reason for that to have occurred. But it did and it was wildly successful and is replicated still in the CFL. The Riders were doing it just this season. The Bombers were doing it, Hamilton did it. Leos did it due to injury but SHOULD have been doing it because Lulay offered different challenges than Jenkins.

 

[MoontoScott]

It's a tough gig. I just don't know that he's going to be viewed that well down there. Especially considering he really hasn't done anything up here. Teams generally have their picks playing in that backup or third strong slot and then a vet in the other.

The other issue is which I as a NFL fan find intriguing is there are quite a few guys that could be done with their current teams and could very will be signing as backups next year with others. Thus making it harder for a guy like Lynch to grab a spot.

I just hope for his sake he doesn't end up in Cleveland.

I think you mean Franklin but yes if I was Franklin I would see if the Browns are interested. He couldn't be much worse in terms of making game decisions than what Cleveland has now. They are simply beyond bad.

 

[joestevens29]

The most formidable team in CFL history, and that ever will be, had Wilkinson and Moon in tandem and a combination that was unstoppable and the potentials of which overwhelmed every D in the league for more than 5 seasons.

Afairc you're too young to have witnessed that. But if you saw that I doubt you would have the same position on this that you do. Essentially you are saying there was no valid reason for that to have occurred. But it did and it was wildly successful and is replicated still in the CFL. The Riders were doing it just this season. The Bombers were doing it, Hamilton did it. Leos did it due to injury but SHOULD have been doing it because Lulay offered different challenges than Jenkins.

That's a very rare situation though.

The riders did it as did Hamilton because they had no choice. What they had was garbage and they didn't have a true starter. The teams with true starters didn't do this. Bombers didn't do much of this either form what I saw.

 

[joestevens29]

I think you mean Franklin but yes if I was Franklin I would see if the Browns are interested. He couldn't be much worse in terms of making game decisions than what Cleveland has now. They are simply beyond bad.

I think they make guys bad. Wentz and Watson probably would've been junk if they ended up there

 

[Stoneman89]

Some of you believe that James Franklin should've seen the field more than he did the last 2 seasons and I don't completely disagree with you there. The point I've been trying to make is that he was used in a way that a lot of backup QB's have been over the years and that being the professional that he is, he doesn't feel like he was mistreated or that his development was stunted. Do you think he'd be attracting the NFL & CFL interest that he is if that was the case? If I was his agent I'd be selling the facts which are that he's learned a lot about being a pro and that he has withstood very little in the way of wear & tear on his body. And that's on top of the athleticism and strong mindset he arrived here with in the first place.

Franklin has too much class to saying anything negative about his time here. And he certainly wouldn't want to be known as a trouble maker or whiner, going forward with his career. While practicing every day, carrying a clipboard and signalling in plays for 3 years are all very good, nothing beats getting a few reps. And no one can tell me that he couldn't have received a whole lot more of those during his time here. IMO, that part of the "development process" was mismanaged. He isn't some scrub that teams brought in to fill a backup uniform and never see action, no matter what. Everyone believes he has a whole lot more talent than that. And going forward to his NFL aspirations, there isn't a whole lot of game film on him in the last 3 years. This year, a couple dozen plays, last year, a full (garbage time) game and a few other reps. Not much to convince scouts and managers that he can run a pro teams offence consistently. If they want him for clipboard duty and signalling in plays, then his agent should have plenty of film on that to show them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's a very rare situation though.

The riders did it as did Hamilton because they had no choice. What they had was garbage and they didn't have a true starter. The teams with true starters didn't do this. Bombers didn't do much of this either form what I saw.

Are you saying that Neither Moon or Wikie were true starters?

The Bombers were doing it with Nichols and subbing backup in for drives as a run package. They figure Nichols is a starter.

The smart thing would be to throw Franklin in once in awhile due to his arm being able to hit longer targets and giving Reilly the odd rest from the plays and pounding. Franklin also stretched D's differently with his outside speed whereas Mike is more of a scrambler.

You use two quality QB's if you have them, because it confounds the D and makes it overwhelming for them. Just throwing Franklin in for 10-20% of downs or drives would have made this a better team, imo.

Alas, its done now, thanks for the discussion.

 

[joestevens29]

Are you saying that Neither Moon or Wikie were true starters?

The Bombers were doing it with Nichols and subbing backup in for drives as a run package. They figure Nichols is a starter.

The smart thing would be to throw Franklin in once in awhile due to his arm being able to hit longer targets and giving Reilly the odd rest from the plays and pounding. Franklin also stretched D's differently with his outside speed whereas Mike is more of a scrambler.

You use two quality QB's if you have them, because it confounds the D and makes it overwhelming for them. Just throwing Franklin in for 10-20% of downs or drives would have made this a better team, imo.

Alas, its done now, thanks for the discussion.

What I'm saying about the past was that was just rare to have.

I was more referring to SASk and Hamilton having no real starter

 

[Stoneman89]

What I'm saying about the past was that was just rare to have.

I was more referring to SASk and Hamilton having no real starter

Which is why you rotate more often than not. But I think Masoli proved this year that he is the man going forward in Hamilton. I happen to think he's pretty good, but they still have some other problems out there they need to take care of.

 

[Stoneman89]

Are you saying that Neither Moon or Wikie were true starters?

The Bombers were doing it with Nichols and subbing backup in for drives as a run package. They figure Nichols is a starter.

The smart thing would be to throw Franklin in once in awhile due to his arm being able to hit longer targets and giving Reilly the odd rest from the plays and pounding. Franklin also stretched D's differently with his outside speed whereas Mike is more of a scrambler.

You use two quality QB's if you have them, because it confounds the D and makes it overwhelming for them. Just throwing Franklin in for 10-20% of downs or drives would have made this a better team, imo.

Alas, its done now, thanks for the discussion.

I think the reason the Bombers used their backup for short yardage is for several reasons, not that Lefevour is any good as a QB.

Nichols has a history of getting hurt
He isn't the biggest QB out there, so no sense giving him extra beatings.
Lefevour is a shitty QB, but a good runner and a big body.

Therefore, IMO, a no brainer putting him out there for those situations.


Reilly is a big man, and can take punishment, but even he should be given a rest from the pounding at times. Those short yardsage situations are a gong show, with guys punching, poking, slamming into you, and ultimately a bunch of them landing on top of you. Not a glamerous play by any means, but a necessary one.

 

[MoontoScott]

MLSE to acquire the Toronto Argonauts - Article - TSN

This might be good news for all of the CFL including the EE. Let's hope they can promote the Argos as part of their ownership of the Leafs. Anything is better than what they had.

 

[joestevens29]

MLSE to acquire the Toronto Argonauts - Article - TSN

This might be good news for all of the CFL including the EE. Let's hope they can promote the Argos as part of their ownership of the Leafs. Anything is better than what they had.

Pretty much. I can't see it hurting that's for sure.

I am curious if MLSE also goes after the Jays. Was rumblings they should. Just not sure if they will

 

[MoontoScott]

Pretty much. I can't see it hurting that's for sure.

I am curious if MLSE also goes after the Jays. Was rumblings they should. Just not sure if they will

It would be interesting if they could own all 4 sports teams as part of a local monopoly.

If you could add Argo tickets as part of the season ticket package for the Leafs/Raptors then you can introduce the 12-14 years olds (who are hockey and basketball crazy) to the CFL because a lot of them don't know the Argos even exist. The CFL has to work on its demographics and this would be a way of introducing a new generation to the CFL. Like I said, the previous ownership group just wasn't getting it done. A similar move would be nice in Vancouver-- time for a change.

 

[joestevens29]

It would be interesting if they could own all 4 sports teams as part of a local monopoly.

If you could add Argo tickets as part of the season ticket package for the Leafs/Raptors then you can introduce the 12-14 years olds (who are hockey and basketball crazy) to the CFL because a lot of them don't know the Argos even exist. The CFL has to work on its demographics and this would be a way of introducing a new generation to the CFL. Like I said, the previous ownership group just wasn't getting it done. A similar move would be nice in Vancouver-- time for a change.

CFL as a whole needs to be better IMO. Even here, our attendance just isn't what it use to be.

There was talk a couple years ago about targeting the Punjabi community much like the NHL and CBC did.

Where is that now? We need to target new Canadians and show them why we love the sports we do. The fact is the old Canadians just aren't paying attention like they use to and you need to supplement that.

Toronto could use their other teams to their advantage like you said. Would be interesting to see if that worked.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just figured I'd mention Toronto FC winning the MLS is going to be bad news for the Argos. They were already far behind in popularity and now the Soccer club has been even more entrenched in Toronto Hearts. So that Hockey, Basketball, Soccer, are miles ahead of the CFL in Toronto and with the Argos just playing the role of the ugly red head stepsister in the Toronto FC barn. They've basically gone from irrelevant to also ran with the Toronto FC win.

Although I always felt the move to BMO was misguided. The one thing the Argos had going for them in Skydome is at least playing in a stadium that was big league.