Post-Game Talk: EDM 2 - NJD 1: Enough is enough, and it is time for a change.

[Cheddabombs]

If and when the Devils first their coach

in Hall's career

total coaches


Tom Renney
Ralph Krugar
Dallas Eakins
Todd Nelson-Craig Mactivash
Todd McLlellan
and now the devils guy

this is Hall's 7th season

neat

 

[Tundra]

Very surprised by Merril's step forward these past games. If he can continue to grow, we will be in a lot better shape defensively.

Merrill was compared to Ryan Suter coming out of Michigan, so there has to be some substance there.

 

[Bleedred]

If and when the Devils first their coach

in Hall's career

total coaches


Tom Renney
Ralph Krugar
Dallas Eakins
Todd Nelson-Craig Mactivash
Todd McLlellan
and now the devils guy

this is Hall's 7th season

How didn't someone else already point this out? You should be promoted to detective!

 

[Blender]

If and when the Devils first their coach

in Hall's career

total coaches


Tom Renney
Ralph Krugar
Dallas Eakins
Todd Nelson-Craig Mactivash
Todd McLlellan
and now the devils guy

this is Hall's 7th season

That's for showing up for this in depth analysis!

 

[Jumptheshark]

How didn't someone else already point this out? You should be promoted to detective!

twist around my post

Hall in some view has not lived up to what people thought he would be. One reason is every year he gets a new coach and needs to learn a new system. Ask anyone on the Oiler board--I was not that big of a Hall fan---but if he goes through another coach so quickly--I would start to feel bad for the guy

 

[Hellraiser]

Some people might disagree with me but I'm really starting to regret Schneider for Horvat, the guy has been a stud this season and I would love to have him this season. Plus if we never had Schneider, we would have drafted higher the past few seasons leading to higher draft picks

 

[NJDevs26]

Anyway, Im frustrated, pissed off and drunk. Night guys.

I'm amazed security didn't remove that sign before it made it onto the camera.

 

[Tundra]

Some people might disagree with me but I'm really starting to regret Schneider for Horvat, the guy has been a stud this season and I would love to have him this season. Plus if we never had Schneider, we would have drafted higher the past few seasons leading to higher draft picks

Like I said, it's not quite the steal that it originally appeared as.

 

[MadDevil]

Some people might disagree with me but I'm really starting to regret Schneider for Horvat, the guy has been a stud this season and I would love to have him this season. Plus if we never had Schneider, we would have drafted higher the past few seasons leading to higher draft picks

Thanks Lou.

 

[Hellraiser]

Like I said, it's not quite the steal that it originally appeared.

I think its time to cut our losses and get what we can for Schneider while we can plus some of the older guys

 

[Zippy316]

Some people might disagree with me but I'm really starting to regret Schneider for Horvat, the guy has been a stud this season and I would love to have him this season. Plus if we never had Schneider, we would have drafted higher the past few seasons leading to higher draft picks

Like I said, it's not quite the steal that it originally appeared as.

Revisionism for moves like this is a bit foolish.

For all we know, we could've drafted Nichuskin or Domi or Horvat maybe would've developed differently. When it comes down to it, we have Schneider now, for better or worse. He's still a valuable piece and Shero needs to sit down and decide the teams future and whether it falls in a timeline of when Schneider will be in his better years or past it.

I still believe the team could turn it around with the right moves in a couple years while Schneider will still have a few elite to all-star years left in him. I'm not sure if there's a good enough alternative to moving Schneider unless we acquire a young goalie (Hellebuyck, Gibson) in return.

 

[Hellraiser]

Revisionism for moves like this is a bit foolish.

For all we know, we could've drafted Nichuskin or Domi or Horvat maybe would've developed differently. When it comes down to it, we have Schneider now, for better or worse. He's still a valuable piece and Shero needs to sit down and decide the teams future and whether it falls in a timeline of when Schneider will be in his better years or past it.

I still believe the team could turn it around with the right moves in a couple years while Schneider will still have a few elite to all-star years left in him. I'm not sure if there's a good enough alternative to moving Schneider unless we acquire a young goalie (Hellebuyck, Gibson) in return.

I agree with you we can still compete with him, but without him we could have had Horvat/Domi/Nichusckin AND probably Marner

 

[Wingman77]

lol how can you not see Lou created most of the problem? He jumped ship to a team that did what the Devils should have done. This team has gone through five years of missing the playoffs and does not have anywhere near a prospect pool resembling that. And that's one thing among stuff like these long term contracts to vets when this team was no where near a position to win.

And it's not only people on this board that think Lou left the Devils in a bad spot you can go read other articles. how many teams would trade their rosters for ours?

With the exception of drafting between 2005-2013, there is little that can be pinpointed on Lou. No team recovers overnight after losing 4 of its top scorers in a calendar year span. That is what set us back further because no available depth was readily available and it was exposed quicker than anybody ever could have anticipated.

Lou didn't leave the Devils either, he was given an ultimatum to stay with the team or they would have to move on without him. A number of the new higher up guys behind the scenes were not very fond of Lou's controlling nature of everything within the organization from marketing to player availability to a general fan/player interaction through the web and social media. To several extents you cannot blame them because it prevented them from doing their jobs to the best they could.

He had every intention of staying on board, "advising" Ray until Shanny popped an idea into his head and it just so happened that a guy who has always had a competitive hunger wanted to continue doing so in a bigger capacity.

 

[JimEIV]

Stefan Matteau instead of Kevin Fiala the year after. All the wasted picks after 2004.

That's a bit of revisionism.

A lot of those wasted picks after 2004 returned Kovalchuk.. but in the Kovalchuk deal we lost a first that turned out to be Kevin Hayes. The loss of Johnny Oduya was pretty substantial as well.

Choosing to give Kovalchuk the house over taking care of Parise in 2010 was probably the most deviating decision in our franchise history. That cost us Kevin Fiala...To ignore the circumstances of that decision is simply nonsense.

But it also cost a 3rd in 2011 and it ultimately cost us Parise.

That decision not only cost those direct things... Indirectly it force us to sign Tallinder with the loss of Oduya...And it force d us to sign Clowe and Ryder to make up for Kovalchuk walking away.

Matteau was literally chosen because we had no money and needed bodies.

When people bring up the Matteau decision as a Lou failure I chuckle. Cause it was really all the huckster gambling on a bad bet.

 

[R8Devs]

With the exception of drafting between 2005-2013, there is little that can be pinpointed on Lou. No team recovers overnight after losing 4 of its top scorers in a calendar year span. That is what set us back further because no available depth was readily available and it was exposed quicker than anybody ever could have anticipated.

Lou didn't leave the Devils either, he was given an ultimatum to stay with the team or they would have to move on without him. A number of the new higher up guys behind the scenes were not very fond of Lou's controlling nature of everything within the organization from marketing to player availability to a general fan/player interaction through the web and social media. To several extents you cannot blame them because it prevented them from doing their jobs to the best they could.

He had every intention of staying on board, "advising" Ray until Shanny popped an idea into his head and it just so happened that a guy who has always had a competitive hunger wanted to continue doing so in a bigger capacity.

I'm not talking about winning specifics but this team lack of skill. I don't expect them to recover fast from Parise and Kovalchuk either but there has to be way more talent coming through the system when you miss the playoffs this many times.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm not talking about winning specifics but this team lack of skill. I don't expect them to recover fast from Parise and Kovalchuk either but there has to be way more talent coming through the system when you miss the playoffs this many times.

Skill is coming through. Not something that happens over night either.

Never mind our skill guys are coasting and floating right now.

 

[Hellraiser]

I'm not talking about winning specifics but this team lack of skill. I don't expect them to recover fast from Parise and Kovalchuk either but there has to be way more talent coming through the system when you miss the playoffs this many times.

Pretty sure were on the Tampa/Dallas schedule we'll make the playoffs next season or the season after. Tampa/Dallas made it in 2007 and Dallas in 2008. Both didn't make it for a while after, Tampa in 2011 and Dallas in 2014, hope we make it next year. Not trying to compare us to them, but both went through rebuilds

 

[Triumph]

With the exception of drafting between 2005-2013, there is little that can be pinpointed on Lou. No team recovers overnight after losing 4 of its top scorers in a calendar year span. That is what set us back further because no available depth was readily available and it was exposed quicker than anybody ever could have anticipated.

Lou didn't leave the Devils either, he was given an ultimatum to stay with the team or they would have to move on without him. A number of the new higher up guys behind the scenes were not very fond of Lou's controlling nature of everything within the organization from marketing to player availability to a general fan/player interaction through the web and social media. To several extents you cannot blame them because it prevented them from doing their jobs to the best they could.

He had every intention of staying on board, "advising" Ray until Shanny popped an idea into his head and it just so happened that a guy who has always had a competitive hunger wanted to continue doing so in a bigger capacity.

Even if the team had somehow managed to retain all of those players and even if those players had managed to just be 5% worse every season, they would still be a giant disaster at the moment. But that's just the inevitability of trying to be good for 20 years, eventually you run out of Hall of Fame level players. They even managed to sign a great 1st liner for cheap in Jagr but couldn't keep it going.

They'd also still be a disaster if they had re-signed Parise. They just would've been better in the interim seasons.

 

[Hellraiser]

Even if the team had somehow managed to retain all of those players and even if those players had managed to just be 5% worse every season, they would still be a giant disaster at the moment. But that's just the inevitability of trying to be good for 20 years, eventually you run out of Hall of Fame level players. They even managed to sign a great 1st liner for cheap in Jagr but couldn't keep it going.

This is why I prefer it to be the way it is now cause extending mediocrity just delays the rebuild

 

[kiwidevil]

Skill is coming through. Not something that happens over night either.

Never mind our skill guys are coasting and floating right now.

Let's be honest here. The prospects we have, all are around 2nd liners at best. We may luck out and get a 1st liner somewhere in there.

But even the guys we had at the WJC were role players or passengers on skill lines. Not one projects as a real game changer. Rykov was the only real major cog on any team.

We need a couple of A+ prospects. You don't get those from finishing around 10th in draft after draft.

 

[Zippy316]

Even if the team had somehow managed to retain all of those players and even if those players had managed to just be 5% worse every season, they would still be a giant disaster at the moment. But that's just the inevitability of trying to be good for 20 years, eventually you run out of Hall of Fame level players. They even managed to sign a great 1st liner for cheap in Jagr but couldn't keep it going.

They'd also still be a disaster if they had re-signed Parise. They just would've been better in the interim seasons.

It's hard to know these things though.

If Parise had stayed, would Fayne still be here? Would Merrill/Gelinas have developed like they did? Would we have signed different free agents to help us be competitive? Would we have still even traded for Schneider?

There's a lot of time between then and now to know what would've happened. Not sure if anyone has Hulu, but if anyone watched 11.22.1963 they know exactly what I mean.

 

[Blender]

Let's be honest here. The prospects we have, all are around 2nd liners at best. We may luck out and get a 1st liner somewhere in there.

But even the guys we had at the WJC were role players or passengers on skill lines. Not one projects as a real game changer. Rykov was the only real major cog on any team.

We need a couple of A+ prospects. You don't get those from finishing around 10th in draft after draft.

Speers technically played on the first line for Canada in most of the tournament. Whether he actually ended up with the most ice time for right wingers, I don't know as Canada played different lines more in certain games. Didn't light it up in points either, but he played well.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Let's be honest here. The prospects we have, all are around 2nd liners at best. We may luck out and get a 1st liner somewhere in there.

But even the guys we had at the WJC were role players or passengers on skill lines. Not one projects as a real game changer. Rykov was the only real major cog on any team.

We need a couple of A+ prospects. You don't get those from finishing around 10th in draft after draft.

Let's be honest. You don't actually know where our kids project yet.

WJC is without a doubt not some end all be all judge of who will and won't be top talent.

 

[kiwidevil]

So you can't see the difference between say a Jost or White and our prospects?

The WJC is a perfect example of levels of talent. Play drivers vs gap fillers.

Speers was the prime example. He was a PKer and fill in on top line for injuries or a bit of line mix ups. The announcers called him a swiss army knife and say he projects to be a Kunitz.

 

[Triumph]

It's hard to know these things though.

If Parise had stayed, would Fayne still be here? Would Merrill/Gelinas have developed like they did? Would we have signed different free agents to help us be competitive? Would we have still even traded for Schneider?

There's a lot of time between then and now to know what would've happened. Not sure if anyone has Hulu, but if anyone watched 11.22.1963 they know exactly what I mean.

One of the problems a game like hockey causes for GMs is identifying the players who are good and the players who are passengers. It becomes especially hard when your great players are degrading. Lou just showed no ability to do this by the end. That 3 year deal for Zubrus was simply atrocious, and I am a huge Dainius Zubrus fan.

So sure, counterfactuals are hard. Maybe Merrill and Gelinas turn out better, you're right (although deeply skeptical on the latter, he is just not a good enough decision-maker to be effective in the NHL). But the talent just isn't there. It's not here now. Most free agent signings are bad. I mean, I would've loved to make the playoffs in 2013 or 2014 - and they should've made the playoffs in 2014 regardless - and it is possible for me to imagine people like Merrill and Josefson turning out slightly better. But it's just not possible for me to construct a counterfactual Devils from that point in 2012 where they're still a consistent 95-100 point team in 2016-17.