Series Discussion: ECSF: Capitals vs Penguins (Pens win) (mod warning post 806)

[Nice]

I'd be down for some new jerseys, new logo, hell, I wouldn't even mind having a new name

 

[strungout]

Bye Caps. I'm out.

Too much time, money, and emotion has been invested with so little return. Thanks Ted, et al., for killing my passion for hockey. The one good thing that came out of last night was a reassurance that cancelling my season tickets was the right thing to do.

Godspeed to those of you that are masochistic enough to stick with them, and a genuine thanks to many of you for what was, for many years, the best place to talk hockey.

Spent many many hours on here...so many. Good and bad. Crap teams....good teams...prospects...playoff pushes...playoff failures...draft debacles...draft wins...good trades...bad trades...this was always a place to come to grind it all out. We've all been through so much...and props to those that will continue...but its just not in me anymore. Im beaten to **** by this team...and Im not going to keep doing it.

I'll miss it and a lot of the posters here...and Im sure I'll lurk around...but for them team....I just can't anymore. Growing up, family, so many other things taking time...its just not worth it.

If they ever win...I'll be happy...but theres nothing pointing at they ever will. This must be how Red Sox and Cubs fans felt all those years....but at least they had won at one point in time.

Its just brutal man. SO brutal.

 

[QuadrupleDeke]

Combined Twitter reaction by Slava Malamud, reporter for the Sport-Express who has covered Russians in the NHL for 15 years:

#Caps problems extend beyond a bad def pair, an underperforming goalie. The failure is endemic and systematic. It’s the result of choices fanboy owner Leonsis made in 2004 when he decided his business model would be not building a winner but servicing a marketable megastar. There’s nothing wrong with building a team around a star, but it has to be the right kind of star. Ovi just isn’t the “win first†type. I’ve known Ovi since he was 17. Kid was born with a silverware set in his mouth. Always told he is the greatest, teammates must be worthy but his demands on himself stay the same. He’s not the bloodied inspirational leader. He is the tousled-hair sexy charismatic ruffian. Yes, he’s the NHL’s favorite stripper who’s been giving the hockey world a lap dance for 13 years. Sorry, but the length of your erection hockey world, is unhealthy by now. You need to face the truth: the Caps personality-cult culture is counterproductive to winning the cup. Fueled by innumerable fanboy blogs and media whipped into terrified subservience by CapsPR, the culture feeds on self, kills all dissent, and spurns all criticism. You know, Caps fans, that despite all the issues Oates and Hunter had, your main problem w/ them was trying to turn Ovi into a man of the system. You hate that. You want your boy toy wild and free. Everyone wants this of Ovi, even RUS coaches. Compare this to Crosby who will take any role on CAN w/o complaint. You call 87 a whiner, but who whined the loudest during the lockout, threatening to stay in the KHL? Who whines now, threatening to leave the league to get an Olympic trinket? While Leonsis bends over backwards to satisfy all his ridiculous demands. This is a guy who looks out for himself and his public image (Wild and Sexy Rebel, Patriot of Motherland). His only interest in the Cup is how his reflection will look in it. Problem is, Leonsis has the same priorities. He has dissolved himself and the team in Ovechkin’s 13-year-long marketing campaign. It worked out great financially. The price to pay is being humiliated every year by real winners. Congrats, Caps, you've sold lots of t-shirts. Congrats, Caps fans, you've been had. Oh, and that sound you’ve just heard is your window of opportunity slamming shut. I hope this wild ride on the Charisma Train was fun. Rant out. Enjoy your Redskins mini camp.

He's clearly trying to be inflammatory, but there's a lot of truth in there.

 

[The Consiglieri]

Yeah, that flub was hard to take.

They had no chance against that stacked HOF Red Wings team, though. Even if Esa would have scored there and they hung on to win, they would have lost in 5 games.

Anyway, 1998 was as good as it gets. In their pathetic history, the Caps have exactly 4 wins past the second round in the playoffs. *Ugh*

I might have normally agreed with you, it's what I thought going into the series, but when Esa blew that sitter, that open mouthed goal, the Caps were coming off a 2-1 loss in Detroit, and had held a huge lead in the game, Esau's goal would have given us a 2 goal cushion with 8 to play and would have blunted the Red Wing comeback, and probably given us a win on the road and the advantage of the series. How important was it? In the first 3 games of the series we lost by 1, completely gagged away a massive lead in game 2, lost by 1 at home in game 3, and then went home for the summer in game 4 when it was obvious we were done.

I don't think it's fair to say that this would have been same ol Caps if not for Esa. It already wasn't, to that point we would have actually been +1 in total goals scored in the series and tied at 1-1. Instead, Esa blew it in horrific fashion, and the team completely collapsed in the game, and after failing to pull off a win in game 3 (in yet another close game).

It wasn't head for 4 games to 1, at that point it looked like at minimum a 7 game series, and possibly shorter w/us having the advantage, then Esa's career stodginess everywhere else, ended the second he put on a Caps sweater like so many FA's before and after.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I'd be down for some new jerseys, new logo, hell, I wouldn't even mind having a new name

Washington Capitols.

 

[OV Rocks]

Ovi is headed toward his later years in his career. Theres no more coaching. At this point he is a 2nd line player, pp specialist. Problem is the caps dont have a 1st line player. Really liked what I saw out of Bura last couple games but realistically he will never be a #1 winger.

Let this sink in

Penguins Have:
Top Canadian Player
Top 3 Russian Player
Top 3 American Player

All 3 separate can account for 45 minutes of ice time. That's 45 minutes out of 6 a top 20 player in the world is on the ice. Caps can't compete with that with this roster.

 

[mjhfb]

since we love the team we refuse to see that Ovi has to be part of the problem. Weve changed the coaches, gms, goalies and players. One constant in this era where the team can not rise to the occasion in big games. I was there last night and it was night and day the differences between game 6 and 7. leadership is vacant on this team. Holtby **** the bed for most of the playoffs but last night the team didnt even show up.

Goal #1 - Ovi reaching on Rust
Goal #2 - Ovi weak one handed turnover on boards

This is your Captain in THE game 7?

 

[Tweedsuitcase]

F that article. OV has done everything asked of him by every ****** coach we've had, with every crappy defense we've had, with every crappy linemates he's had. did he miss out on Crosby's first half of the season last year just as one example of his selfless service to the concept of leadership and the spirit of hockey ?
it's hard not to point to OV as the constant here, but we shouldn't need to rely on one winger no matter how talented or energetic (even if he has a huge cap hit).
AND if ONLY it were true that the league and national press pumped his tires and celebrated his love of the game, err, i mean "tousled-hair sexy charisma"
OV doesn't want to win? go jump off a pier, dude.

 

[Tweedsuitcase]

Let this sink in

Penguins Have:
Top Canadian Player
Top 3 Russian Player
Top 3 American Player

All 3 separate can account for 45 minutes of ice time. That's 45 minutes out of 6 a top 20 player in the world is on the ice. Caps can't compete with that with this roster.

OV, backstrom, oshie, plus a top Canadian goalie doesn't match that on paper?
What's boggling me is everything everyone is saying about #1 defenseman or this position or that needing an upgrade, isn't trhe case with this years penguins who just tossed us.

 

[Portable Mink]

I think I'll need to write my breakup letter tomorrow

 

[marcel snapshot]

Goal #1 - Ovi reaching on Rust
Goal #2 - Ovi weak one handed turnover on boards

This is your Captain in THE game 7?

Yep. That's the guy.
Successful teams are not lead by a guy who consistently refuses to move his feet in the D-zone. And successful organizations don't tolerate that kind of play.

 

[marcel snapshot]

The ****ing Arizona Coyotes have made it farther in the playoffs than the Ovechkin-era Caps. Consider how pathetic that is.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Bye Caps. I'm out.

Too much time, money, and emotion has been invested with so little return. Thanks Ted, et al., for killing my passion for hockey. The one good thing that came out of last night was a reassurance that cancelling my season tickets was the right thing to do.

Godspeed to those of you that are masochistic enough to stick with them, and a genuine thanks to many of you for what was, for many years, the best place to talk hockey.

You'll be back. See ya next season.

 

[mrwarden]

F that article. OV has done everything asked of him by every ******
coach we've had, with every crappy defense we've had, with every crappy linemates he's had. did he miss out on Crosby's first half of the season last year just as one example of his selfless service to the concept of leadership and the spirit of hockey ?
it's hard not to point to OV as the constant here, but we shouldn't need to rely on one winger no matter how talented or energetic (even if he has a huge cap hit).
AND if ONLY it were true that the league and national press pumped his tires and celebrated his love of the game, err, i mean "tousled-hair sexy charisma"
OV doesn't want to win? go jump off a pier, dude.

All Ovie does now is wait for one-timers. Maybe he's hurt. If not, 9.5 is going to prevent us from competing until he's gone.

 

[Tweedsuitcase]

that article was an indictment of him as a person, player, and his whole career. much as this sucks right now, that's BS.

 

[Coldplay619]

It's amazing how far his game has fallen from just two years ago.

 

[Demandedace]

I hope you guys don't seriously think ovie wasn't hurt, it's clear he was gimped ever since Kadri's hit. No, that doesn't excuse all of his bad play, but it does help to explain it.

If you don't think ovie truly wants a cup you don't know the kind of player/person he is. There are a lot of things that you can fault him for, but lack of want for a cup is not one of them

 

[Coldplay619]

I hope you guys don't seriously think ovie wasn't hurt, it's clear he was gimped ever since Kadri's hit. No, that doesn't excuse all of his bad play, but it does help to explain it.

If you don't think ovie truly wants a cup you don't know the kind of player/person he is. There are a lot of things that you can fault him for, but lack of want for a cup is not one of them

Will have to wait and see if he was injured but to your second point, he can say and feel that he wants one badly and I believe him.

But at the end of the day his play on the ice more specifically in the defensive zone shows that he doesn't want it badly enough.

If he is part of the team next season it'll be interesting to see what improvements he's made if any during the off season.

 

[Langway]

Nothing major is going to happen sadly as long as the seats keep getting blindly filled at Verizon and that will happen until Ovi is gone

If ownership and management continue to make short-sighted decisions it's not a lock to happen. If long-time passionate fans are passing on keeping up with them altogether then how can they bring in casuals? What's going to be captivating about this team next year in the regular season? That alone is why they will make changes in order to toss the fanbase some element of hope and something new. They can't possibly return next season minus their UFAs and plus a couple of depth players or a prospect or two and think the fans are going to be interested. If they're not building big picture then fans will increasingly find their regular season play, no matter how successful, devoid of substance.

So I'd guess there will be changes behind the bench and at least a player like Carlson traded for youth. In year's past they could point to a prospect or two and pin hopes on them but that player isn't in the system as-is. Vrana and Bowey have enough trouble gaining the confidence of the AHL coach, which is another reason why they need a different approach organizationally. They need an approach better able to maximize and refine hockey sense and it's not via a try-harder approach and this free-flowing defense-first shell game. It's in being better able to implement higher level thinking, higher pace and more cerebral play. Ovechkin doesn't mix with that vision but a heavier-handed coach could shame him into cleaning his game up. That's basically where they're at...either trade him or shame him into taking ownership of his weaknesses. If ownership continues to use kid gloves with him then it's just going to be a soap opera of failure as he ages and dysfunction from that bleeding into everything else via crutches that allow for the appearance of competitiveness.

 

[seventieslord]

OV, backstrom, oshie, plus a top Canadian goalie doesn't match that on paper?

No, Backstrom isn't Crosby. Ovechkin isn't Malkin. Oshie is not Kessel. Only the 2nd comparison is remotely close.

Washington has the top-end players to compare to MOST teams, just not the Pens. Their real strength was in their depth, or, it was supposed to be.

As the Leafs/Caps series started, I marvelled at how the Caps had the three best overall defensemen in the series and the Leafs had the three worst:

top-30 in the NHL: Carlson, Shattenkirk, Niskanen (by reputation, at least. I didn't necessarily agree with the last two but the most recent series of d-men polls in the polls section seemed to indicate that's where many fans see them)

#2-4 types: Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Orlov, Orpik, Alzner

bums: Polak, Carrick, Hunwick

...in the end, I think I underrated my Leafs' defense corps. There's no way they can be as bad as I thought, and play a series like they did. Likewise, I think the Caps' defense was a tad overrated, but I still believe it's extremely deep. If the Leafs solidified the bottom pair with an Alzner type it would really go a long way. You guys think he's a bum? Try Hunwick/Polak/Carrick for a while.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

No, you're right on that point. But was referring to the period between 09 and 16, like the Caps we had a team good enough to win the cup but failed dismally each year.

I only got into hockey during 01/02 so missed the Jagr Lemieux years.

You missed Jagr and Lemieux and had to settle for the two headed monster Crosby/Malkin combo.

"Leafs/Pens/whatever fan here, feel bad for you guys, you deserve better than this."

Yeah right.

 

[g00n]

Pens fans, we don't really need your analysis or sympathy here. Take it to a neutral board.


Caps fans, do not reply.

 

[Tweedsuitcase]

No, Backstrom isn't Crosby. Ovechkin isn't Malkin. Oshie is not Kessel. Only the 2nd comparison is remotely close.

Washington has the top-end players to compare to MOST teams, just not the Pens. Their real strength was in their depth, or, it was supposed to be.

As the Leafs/Caps series started, I marvelled at how the Caps had the three best overall defensemen in the series and the Leafs had the three worst:

top-30 in the NHL: Carlson, Shattenkirk, Niskanen (by reputation, at least. I didn't necessarily agree with the last two but the most recent series of d-men polls in the polls section seemed to indicate that's where many fans see them)

#2-4 types: Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Orlov, Orpik, Alzner

bums: Polak, Carrick, Hunwick

...in the end, I think I underrated my Leafs' defense corps. There's no way they can be as bad as I thought, and play a series like they did. Likewise, I think the Caps' defense was a tad overrated, but I still believe it's extremely deep. If the Leafs solidified the bottom pair with an Alzner type it would really go a long way. You guys think he's a bum? Try Hunwick/Polak/Carrick for a while.

I get what you're saying, but not your point. No one will ever beat them unless they meet those conditions? A top three from each nation? Almost impossible to have that in your lineup. We were good enough to beat them this year. All we had to do is show up.

 

[OV Rocks]

OV, backstrom, oshie, plus a top Canadian goalie doesn't match that on paper?
What's boggling me is everything everyone is saying about #1 defenseman or this position or that needing an upgrade, isn't trhe case with this years penguins who just tossed us.

There is a huge difference between elite talent and high end talent. One of Kessle, Malkin, and Crosby can take over any game. The only player the Caps have right now that can take over a game when they want to is Kuznetsov that's it. Superstars create the game around them. Ovi could do that at his peak. Backstrom has the ability to do it but doesn't for whatever reason. Oshie is probably the best depth player in the NHL but not a superstar or even a top 20 player.

Holtby let this team down this postseason, number 1 blame

 

[Caps8112]

F that article. OV has done everything asked of him by every ****** coach we've had, with every crappy defense we've had, with every crappy linemates he's had. did he miss out on Crosby's first half of the season last year just as one example of his selfless service to the concept of leadership and the spirit of hockey ?
it's hard not to point to OV as the constant here, but we shouldn't need to rely on one winger no matter how talented or energetic (even if he has a huge cap hit).
AND if ONLY it were true that the league and national press pumped his tires and celebrated his love of the game, err, i mean "tousled-hair sexy charisma"
OV doesn't want to win? go jump off a pier, dude.

thats not the point. Ovis aura, attitude, floating whatever you want to call it has to be part of this limp wrist effort issues the caps have. He is the captain. Captains set the example. Its the last possible thing to be looked at over the last 10 years when you have changed every other variable. Or you arrive at the hockey gods just hate the capitals. As mush as I hate Crosby you dont see him take a shift off. Not only says the right things as Ovi attempts to do, he actually does them. Ovi could score 100 goals a season and it wouldnt matter imo. His lackadaisical attitude or effort is what is on display for the team to follow. he wasnt this way pre 2011. before arguing with me look at the last couple of games at the end of the season when he was everywhere doing everything, then look at last night and most of this series and you tell me if he was committed, setting the example.