GDT: ECQF 5 | FLYERS (H) vs. Canadiens (A) | Wedn., Aug. 19, 2020 | 8:00 pm ET | Flyers lead series 3-1

[DancingPanther]

The incessant whining over the game plan the last couple of games is tiresome.

Is it fun hockey to watch? In some ways, yes. In a lot of ways, no. But give the group some credit. They got shelled in game 2 trying to match Montreal's speed toe to toe in the neutral zone. They took that loss, completely regrouped, completely altered their plan, and have shutout that same team two games in a row.

I fear it is unsustainable hockey.

I do believe that AV is a good enough coach that he will not play like this against other teams. I believe this is a temporary game plan for the Habs. However, we've been warned by Ranger fans about playoff shell hockey in the past so there is some magnitude of legitimate and long term concern there.

His lineup decisions also worry me. The shell approach is being shoehorned in by decreasing the creativity, mobility, and offensive potential of the roster (Hagg in for Ghost, Giroux with Grant and Laughton, lots of Grant and Thompson, JVR out) though Bunny was a breath of fresh air and he has played Farabee big minutes.

Speaking of which, I bolieve

 

[dragonoffrost]

So I'm just curious, is it habs fans are whining and saying philadelphia plays an extremely boring style of hockey just because they haven't been able to do anything or is it just boring for the habs and you guys are enjoying it?

I was listening to the Montreal broadcast on the drive home yesterday during the third period and Sergio Momesso made the point that the Flyers adjusted to what the Canadiens like to do with their young centers and are forcing the wings to be the driver at the zone entry.

Also knowing Price is in the other net means you aren't going to score 3+ goals often so you need to prepare for drag out fights like we've seen.

Yes Hart has been good but the Canadiens have only got 30+ shots one game. It's a team defense that is stiffling the Canadiens and if that's how you win you adjust and do it.

 

[flyersnorth]

It’s an elimination game. Unless he’s physically unable to go, Price will be in net.

What’s more important to me is the health of Weber. He seemed to hurt his leg late in yesterday’s game. If he’s favoring it at all the Flyers need to both softly the dump the puck on his side and/or go wide on him. Exploit any advantage that they might have.

Lets end this today boys.

GO FLYERS!!!!

 

[Striiker]

The incessant whining over the game plan the last couple of games is tiresome.

Is it fun hockey to watch? In some ways, yes. In a lot of ways, no. But give the group some credit. They got shelled in game 2 trying to match Montreal's speed toe to toe in the neutral zone. They took that loss, completely regrouped, completely altered their plan, and have shutout that same team two games in a row.

Just be happy that the staff and players are aware enough to change things up when need be. That could pay dividends down the road.

They didn’t completely alter their game plan after game 2. At least not in a way that made any difference. The only thing that prevented game 3 from being like game 2 was that the top line, Sanheim pair, and Hart carried and the Habs hit 5 posts. Otherwise the rest of the team sucked just as bad. Then in game 4, we still got outchanced both in quality and quantity, but again the top guys carried AVs pets and Hart saved them.

They also don’t get credit for adjustments when almost every single thing they’ve done has made the team worse. Nobody should be happy with the coaching changes.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

What decision do they have to make?! There’s no way that Elliott starts!

Or at least that’s what I was told yesterday.

You were also told after that, quote, "LOL"

 

[CapnZin]

Back to back nights... hopefully my liver can handle this.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

We do not have enough info to know if Hart is reliable enough in back to backs (It's gonna be a lot of gut-based guessing), and we have seen that Elliott is actually playing decently enough.

If Elliott had smeared his various secretions all over the ice in recent play then the decision is way easier.

We have seen enough historically to know that relying on Stonewall or expecting anything from Stonewall is a fool's errand. He's too random. If he plays, fine - keep Carter safe - but be prepared to play Game 6.

 

[GKJ]

I was listening to the Montreal broadcast on the drive home yesterday during the third period and Sergio Momesso made the point that the Flyers adjusted to what the Canadiens like to do with their young centers and are forcing the wings to be the driver at the zone entry.

Also knowing Price is in the other net means you aren't going to score 3+ goals often so you need to prepare for drag out fights like we've seen.

Yes Hart has been good but the Canadiens have only got 30+ shots one game. It's a team defense that is stiffling the Canadiens and if that's how you win you adjust and do it.

The center play has made things easier for Hart. He’s only had to make like 3 or 4 tough saves the past 2 games. Putting Giroux at 3C stifled the matchups for Montreal.

 

[dragonoffrost]

They didn’t completely alter their game plan after game 2. At least not in a way that made any difference. The only thing that prevented game 3 from being like game 2 was that the top line, Sanheim pair, and Hart carried and the Habs hit 5 posts. Otherwise the rest of the team sucked just as bad. Then in game 4, we still got outchanced both in quality and quantity, but again the top guys carried AVs pets and Hart saved them.

They also don’t get credit for adjustments when almost every single thing they’ve done has made the team worse. Nobody should be happy with the coaching changes.

I would suggest listening to the Montreal radio feed in English next game. It was interesting to hear what their broadcast thought of the Flyers yesterday. I didn't do it on purpose since I normally hate listening to opposing broadcasts thanks to guys like Jack Edwards but it was refreshing yesterday to hear a broadcast break down why the Habs were having issues with the Flyers rather than incessant whining for penalty calls.

Montreal is also struggling because they moved their two kids to 1C and 2C. They will be great players but right now they are learning the NHL Playoffs the hard way.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

A side note regarding the all-time PO histories between the franchises, the Flyers have an 18-17 lead in PO games.

It is the first time the Flyers have a winning PO record against Montreal since the initial game played in 1973 which the Flyers won.

The Flyers have won 11 of the past 13 played against Montreal in the playoffs.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Well believe it or not we are actually presented with the chance to win this series in 5 games today.

Personally, I’m excited at that opportunity.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Well believe it or not we are actually presented with the chance to win this series in 5 games today.

Personally, I’m excited at that opportunity.

I am glad we are also. But I do worry that we have yet to really see the "Price steals a game" game. Both teams are really limiting shots hitting net.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Well believe it or not we are actually presented with the chance to win this series in 5 games today.

Personally, I’m excited at that opportunity.

 

[marcsson68]

His lineup decisions also worry me. The shell approach is being shoehorned in by decreasing the creativity, mobility, and offensive potential of the roster (Hagg in for Ghost, Giroux with Grant and Laughton, lots of Grant and Thompson, JVR out) though Bunny was a breath of fresh air and he has played Farabee big minutes.

I don‘t get how anyone can still say that bringing Hägg back in for Ghost AT THAT VERY MOMENT was a bad lineup decision. Blocking shots may not be the primary skill of a hockey player, but it is as well part of a defender‘s portfolio as skating and passing. There are defensive defensemen and there are offensive defensemen and there are versatile defensemen.
There are moments when the flashy offensive-minded puck-mover with defensive weaknesses is needed less than the offensively limited hard-working shot-blocking teamplayer. And vice versa.

Just look at Hägg blocking Weber‘s shot with his head and give the guy credit. Plus give the coach credit for the right decision.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

I am glad we are also. But I do worry that we have yet to really see the "Price steals a game" game. Both teams are really limiting shots hitting net.

This was my original rationale for calling the flyers in six as well. I also didn’t expect hart to be matching price save for save though. Knock on wood, but the weak goals have been let in on the side of le bleu blanc et rouge. I don’t think hart can be faulted for anything that’s gone in on him (which is super refreshing from what we have been scarred by previously—MFL... grrrr).

 

[deadhead]

It's boring, but tell that to Trotz.

It is what it is, Flyers are legitimately back in the playoffs (the 2013, 2015, 2017 teams weren't good bets to get out of the first round) and it usually takes a couple shots to be a SC contender.

AV has rationally decided that he's not going to outscore any team with a good goalie playing wide open hockey with this roster, so he's going to grind out games - which is exactly what they did down the stretch, just replace Bunnaman with Thompson and Raffl with Grant at center. It's worst against Montreal b/c of the style Montreal plays, we're imitating them but with more physicality.

As we've seen, any time the Flyers try to make "skill" plays the Habs clog the passing lanes and collapse in the box, so AV is having them shoot on goal, hope for a lucky bounce or rebound, force O-zone faceoffs, prevent breakaways off turnovers - it's not pretty but it's effective - the majority of faceoffs were in the Montreal D-zone, and the Flyers win the majority of faceoffs, a double whammy for the Habs.

It's hard for some Flyer players, Giroux keeps forcing passes when he has high danger shots he could take, TK has done the same to a lesser extent, Voracek really isn't comfortable shooting, Hayes wants to hold the puck to set up plays. One reason Hagg probably is in there over Ghost is Ghost is the superior talent, but in this series there are no plays for him to make, and his lack of size is a detriment when Montreal crashes the net.

You don't field the team you want to field, you field the team that gives you the best chance of winning now.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

It's boring, but tell that to Trotz.

It is what it is, Flyers are legitimately back in the playoffs (the 2013, 2015, 2017 teams weren't good bets to get out of the first round) and it usually takes a couple shots to be a SC contender.

AV has rationally decided that he's not going to outscore any team with a good goalie playing wide open hockey with this roster, so he's going to grind out games - which is exactly what they did down the stretch, just replace Bunnaman with Thompson and Raffl with Grant at center. It's worst against Montreal b/c of the style Montreal plays, we're imitating them but with more physicality.

As we've seen, any time the Flyers try to make "skill" plays the Habs clog the passing lanes and collapse in the box, so AV is having them shoot on goal, hope for a lucky bounce or rebound, force O-zone faceoffs, prevent breakaways off turnovers - it's not pretty but it's effective - the majority of faceoffs were in the Montreal D-zone, and the Flyers win the majority of faceoffs, a double whammy for the Habs.

It's hard for some Flyer players, Giroux keeps forcing passes when he has high danger shots he could take, TK has done the same to a lesser extent, Voracek really isn't comfortable shooting, Hayes wants to hold the puck to set up plays. One reason Hagg probably is in there over Ghost is Ghost is the superior talent, but in this series there are no plays for him to make, and his lack of size is a detriment when Montreal crashes the net.

You don't field the team you want to field, you field the team that gives you the best chance of winning now.

I still believe that ghost’s shooting ability would be a huge boon, if you take away all the advantages he provides in transition and neutral zone play (where a lot of this series has been decided).

Honestly, the guy is a top five shooter on this team without question. We sorely need that, both on the power play and at even strength, since we’re playing the rebound game.

 

[deadhead]

His lineup decisions also worry me. The shell approach is being shoehorned in by decreasing the creativity, mobility, and offensive potential of the roster (Hagg in for Ghost, Giroux with Grant and Laughton, lots of Grant and Thompson, JVR out) though Bunny was a breath of fresh air and he has played Farabee big minutes.

I thought AV didn't play young players?
Sometimes I think fans here don't realize how young this team is, and how much younger they're going to be next season.
[2019-20 ages]
Hart (21), TK (22), NAK (23), Farabee (19), Bunnaman (21), Provorov (23), Sanheim (23), Myers (23), Hagg (24) played yesterday. 9 0f 19 players under 25.
Patrick (21), Lindblom (23) IR

Possible 2020-21 players:
Frost (20), Sandin (24), Kase (23), Laczynski (22), Allison (22), Kase (23), Twarynski (22), Sushko (21), Zamula (19), Hogberg (21).

 

[landsbergfan]

I don‘t get how anyone can still say that bringing Hägg back in for Ghost AT THAT VERY MOMENT was a bad lineup decision. Blocking shots may not be the primary skill of a hockey player, but it is as well part of a defender‘s portfolio as skating and passing. There are defensive defensemen and there are offensive defensemen and there are versatile defensemen.
There are moments when the flashy offensive-minded puck-mover with defensive weaknesses is needed less than the offensively limited hard-working shot-blocking teamplayer. And vice versa.

Just look at Hägg blocking Weber‘s shot with his head and give the guy credit. Plus give the coach credit for the right decision.

great post

 

[dragonoffrost]

Why did they put Hagg at the post game availability? I mean he evaded any hint of a question about the Weber block and was asked nothing otherwise. Poor Raffl was having to answer every question that duo.

 

[BiggE]

Back to back nights... hopefully my liver can handle this.

Man up

 

[deadhead]

I still believe that ghost’s shooting ability would be a huge boon, if you take away all the advantages he provides in transition and neutral zone play (where a lot of this series has been decided).

Honestly, the guy is a top five shooter on this team without question. We sorely need that, both on the power play and at even strength, since we’re playing the rebound game.

I'll question it.
I haven't seen the same shooting from Ghost the last couple years, maybe it's the knees, maybe ???
Hagg is actually more dangerous as a scorer in the O-zone, he has an underrated shot.

Last three years, all D-men with 300+ minutes on the PP - goal scoring:
Provorov 1.11 goals/60 (18 out of 70)
Ghost 1.09 (21)
Niskaken this season in 138 minutes, 1.73 goals/60.

 

[DancingPanther]

I don‘t get how anyone can still say that bringing Hägg back in for Ghost AT THAT VERY MOMENT was a bad lineup decision. Blocking shots may not be the primary skill of a hockey player, but it is as well part of a defender‘s portfolio as skating and passing. There are defensive defensemen and there are offensive defensemen and there are versatile defensemen.
There are moments when the flashy offensive-minded puck-mover with defensive weaknesses is needed less than the offensively limited hard-working shot-blocking teamplayer. And vice versa.

Just look at Hägg blocking Weber‘s shot with his head and give the guy credit. Plus give the coach credit for the right decision.

Any hockey player worth his salt is blocking that shot in the playoffs with 4 mins left or whatever it was. Shot blocking is replacement level. It was a great block, I agree.

I thought AV didn't play young players?
Sometimes I think fans here don't realize how young this team is, and how much younger they're going to be next season.
[2019-20 ages]
TK (22), NAK (23), Farabee (19), Bunnaman (21), Provorov (23), Sanheim (23), Myers (23), Hagg (24) played yesterday.
Patrick (21), Lindblom (23) IR

Possible 2020-21 players:
Frost (20), Sandin (24), Kase (23), Laczynski (22), Allison (22), Kase (23), Twarynski (22), Sushko (21), Zamula (19), Hogberg (21).

I never said that? Plus, if that's what you're picking up with these "complaints" by myself and other posters...it's not about playing a young player or not playing a young player. In fact, it's about playing a better player over a worse player.

 

[David St Hubbins]

What’s more important to me is the health of Weber. He seemed to hurt his leg late in yesterday’s game.

Anybody got detail on Weber coming out of Canada or elsewhere? I know they are trying to suppress injury reporting, but inquiring minds want to know.

 

[DancingPanther]

Man up

For real. What is this guy in kindergarten?