ECHL 15/16 membership - fomer AHL pickups, Vegas out
- Thread starter LadyStanley
- Start date
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
I'm still holding out hope that the Peoria Rivermen get to jump up from the SPHL to at least the ECHL.
JungleJON
Registered User
- May 10, 2011
- 306
- 10
I read the article and there is a lot in there that is hard to believe.
First of all, is there a viable arena in Reno, NV?
Where are the Wranglers going to play in Vegas? Back to the Orleans?
Don't see either happening.
I think we will have to wait and see how the NHL teams start to shift their AHL teams from the East to the West Coast. There might be five, maybe six this year but don't think anymore than that.
Then there will probably be another shift with the AHL cities that lost their teams, picking up a new NHL affiliate.
Then from there we will see movement in the ECHL and I could see Prescott Valley becoming one of them.
I do not see Allen or Wichita moving to the AHL, I believe that a group in OKC might try to join the ECHL.
As someone stated on another post, let's wait to see after the end of this month. We should know more then.
First of all, is there a viable arena in Reno, NV?
Where are the Wranglers going to play in Vegas? Back to the Orleans?
Don't see either happening.
I think we will have to wait and see how the NHL teams start to shift their AHL teams from the East to the West Coast. There might be five, maybe six this year but don't think anymore than that.
Then there will probably be another shift with the AHL cities that lost their teams, picking up a new NHL affiliate.
Then from there we will see movement in the ECHL and I could see Prescott Valley becoming one of them.
I do not see Allen or Wichita moving to the AHL, I believe that a group in OKC might try to join the ECHL.
As someone stated on another post, let's wait to see after the end of this month. We should know more then.
Last edited:
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
ECHL has a dormant franchise in Reno?
The Reno idea was something the ECHL always wanted, and was why Reno was listed in their future markets for 4+ years. They probably have an arena there, but this is an idea that is likely never gonna happen.
But, I seriously doubt the AHL would want to put teams in Allen or Wichita. The emphasis is purely on giving the NHL markets a close proximity to their clubs, either by bus or by being close to a major airport hub.
Also, in order for ECHL to go to 30 teams, they have to address the fact that they are most likely gonna lose California, so you have to replace 3 teams, most likely having to settle either in the Northeast or looking at what the CHL was trying to do for emergency expansion.
Finally, Prescott Valley was the third-worst supporters for their CHL team last season, with only Denver (gone) and Brampton (surviving) being worse. A 3,000 average keeps you afloat in the ECHL, but they barely managed 2,500.
The Reno idea was something the ECHL always wanted, and was why Reno was listed in their future markets for 4+ years. They probably have an arena there, but this is an idea that is likely never gonna happen.
But, I seriously doubt the AHL would want to put teams in Allen or Wichita. The emphasis is purely on giving the NHL markets a close proximity to their clubs, either by bus or by being close to a major airport hub.
Also, in order for ECHL to go to 30 teams, they have to address the fact that they are most likely gonna lose California, so you have to replace 3 teams, most likely having to settle either in the Northeast or looking at what the CHL was trying to do for emergency expansion.
Finally, Prescott Valley was the third-worst supporters for their CHL team last season, with only Denver (gone) and Brampton (surviving) being worse. A 3,000 average keeps you afloat in the ECHL, but they barely managed 2,500.
I doubt Reno joins the ECHL anytime soon. The Reno Events Center in downtown has a capacity around 7k but I don't know if they have the ability to make ice. Also, Reno already has a minor league basketball team and currently I don't think Reno can support 2 minor league teams and the athletic teams at the University.
I would rather see the league return to Vegas and find a way to add cities like Fort Worth, Shreveport, OKC, Peoria, Louisville, Dayton, Richmond, Hampton and Jacksonville.
If the ECHL can add OKC and Peoria for 2015-2016 out of that list, those would be great additions.
I've also wondered which cities currently hosting junior league teams could survive in the ECHL instead. Omaha? Sioux Falls? Des Moines? Wichita Falls?
I would rather see the league return to Vegas and find a way to add cities like Fort Worth, Shreveport, OKC, Peoria, Louisville, Dayton, Richmond, Hampton and Jacksonville.
If the ECHL can add OKC and Peoria for 2015-2016 out of that list, those would be great additions.
I've also wondered which cities currently hosting junior league teams could survive in the ECHL instead. Omaha? Sioux Falls? Des Moines? Wichita Falls?
HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
As I pointed out elsewhere, there's a massive difference between "capping" franchises at 30, and "actively planning two 'expansion' franchises for next season". Plus, there have been prior "caps" of the ECHL membership, that have all been blown through as soon as it was convenient -- the 24-team "cap" announced sometime in the last two seasons comes to mind.
The very headline of this piece shows it's nothing more than speculative fiction, trying to take bits and pieces and convince someone that Prescott Valley with minor-pro hockey was anything other than a mistake driven by the WPHL's partnership with an arena-building company -- the town got fleeced, as with pretty much every other ICC/WPHL arena situation through the late 90s and early 2000s. There is no rational world in which there is any pro hockey franchise in Prescott Valley in 2015-16, period.
The other thing is that trying to predict where two "expansion" franchises is going to come from is pointless until and unless the league also knows what's going to happen with the rumored current ECHL western markets being replaced with AHL teams. Personally, I'm going to be _startled_ if there are 30 teams playing in the ECHL in 2015-16. I'm going to be mildly surprised if there are as many as 28, frankly, with the upheaval that seems to be coming.
HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dal...c6f9f4b4492f6dbb!2m2!1d-96.654745!2d33.127453
Distance from Allen Event Center to D/FW International Airport:
33.0 miles, 33 minutes.
In addition:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ame...c6f9f4b4492f6dbb!2m2!1d-96.654745!2d33.127453
Distance from Allen Event Center to American Airlines Center:
27.1 miles, 30 minutes.
Care to re-state your case?
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
A commissioner is prompted to sell the idea of more western ECHL clubs when current cities that aren't ticketed for the AHL wonder if they'll get "support."
That support is sometimes nearby franchises. Hence why McKenna talks about Reno and Vegas... especially Vegas. You can fly there from anywhere. I'd conceivably argue that it might even be worth the other owners pitching in to buy the Orleans in order to make that happen, which naturally is easy for me to say and far harder for them to execute. Reno is really sloppy seconds in that regard... and given that Southwest has pulled several flights out of Reno and Boise to serve larger markets over the last couple years, that's not getting any easier.
I know the ECHL (never mind the AHL) should NOT be thinking about the Tacoma Dome. I do think they should be ready to pounce if they can loosen Kent or Everett from the WHL (which, mind you, is a long game dependent on the aftermath of the state Department of Labor's wrath)... Alaska Airlines is based out of Seattle. You want that hub. If that's being mentioned for the AHL, is that Vancouver's destination? Or is someone supremely optimistic about Seattle getting arena issues solved for NHL expansion? Interesting timing for that name-drop.
That support is sometimes nearby franchises. Hence why McKenna talks about Reno and Vegas... especially Vegas. You can fly there from anywhere. I'd conceivably argue that it might even be worth the other owners pitching in to buy the Orleans in order to make that happen, which naturally is easy for me to say and far harder for them to execute. Reno is really sloppy seconds in that regard... and given that Southwest has pulled several flights out of Reno and Boise to serve larger markets over the last couple years, that's not getting any easier.
I know the ECHL (never mind the AHL) should NOT be thinking about the Tacoma Dome. I do think they should be ready to pounce if they can loosen Kent or Everett from the WHL (which, mind you, is a long game dependent on the aftermath of the state Department of Labor's wrath)... Alaska Airlines is based out of Seattle. You want that hub. If that's being mentioned for the AHL, is that Vancouver's destination? Or is someone supremely optimistic about Seattle getting arena issues solved for NHL expansion? Interesting timing for that name-drop.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Okay, I keep forgetting that Allen is a suburb of the North Texas Metroplex, and geography was one of my best subjects in school. But, Dallas already has the Texas Stars, and San Antonio is likely going to remain independent in ownership. The only viable major market is in Houston, but the main venue there (Toyota Center) has an owner who is adamant about being NHL or bust.
However, the remnants of the WPHL do also provide some other outlets, like El Paso, Corpus Christi (close to Houston), and Amarillo.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
The Iowa Wild.
Honestly, Minnesota takes a hit to their wallet, as I believe people there care more for the Des Moines Buccaneers, who play in a barn as opposed to that pretty arena downtown, than the Wild, but they have them there due to convinence. And what I had just said about Houston.
offkilter
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2014
- 1,320
- 301
Don't feel too bad. 90% of the legit beat writers(cough morons cough) who are being paid good money to cover all this AHL/ECHL relocation talk have no clue where most teams are, what leagues they play in, or even if they still exist.
wildcat48
Registered User
Last I had heard, some rich person in Reno kept writing the ECHL a check every year to keep their "future market" alive while waiting for someone to eventually build an arena in the area (or at least a renovation for an ice plant at the Reno Events Center).
The Columbia Inferno were also listed for a few years as a "future market" after they went dormant because the fees were paid.
hkymnky
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2010
- 139
- 0
30 teams is a logical and admirable goal, but as others have pointed out, hardly realistic.
It would be one thing if the ECHL had 28 stable franchises, but all signs are pointing to a massive upheaval this summer with several strong western markets being lost to the AHL.
Where will Ontario, Bakersfield, and (possibly) Stockton go?
There's been some speculation that Bakersfield could end up in OKC and play in a "mini-CHL" division...but its far from certain.
With the AHL moving into California there are few (if any) viable markets left in the state, and very few left in the west. Assuming OKC gets an ECHL team, that still leaves the ECHL four teams short of 30. I could see Peoria making a return to the ECHL, but that still leaves the league short two, and with a number of questionably stable franchises.
It would be nice to see another team out west to create a solid six team division (assuming LV isn't returning to the fold). I know there were rumors about Casper Wyoming joining the CHL last summer, and there's some rumblings of labor issues with the WHL in Washington state. I wouldn't want to hang my hat on either one...but there's not much else that I can see.
Another team in the southeast could also be helpful in creating a six team division, and it seems like there may be some better options available for markets. Could any of the SPHL ownership be convinced to buy into to the ECHL?
It would be one thing if the ECHL had 28 stable franchises, but all signs are pointing to a massive upheaval this summer with several strong western markets being lost to the AHL.
Where will Ontario, Bakersfield, and (possibly) Stockton go?
There's been some speculation that Bakersfield could end up in OKC and play in a "mini-CHL" division...but its far from certain.
With the AHL moving into California there are few (if any) viable markets left in the state, and very few left in the west. Assuming OKC gets an ECHL team, that still leaves the ECHL four teams short of 30. I could see Peoria making a return to the ECHL, but that still leaves the league short two, and with a number of questionably stable franchises.
It would be nice to see another team out west to create a solid six team division (assuming LV isn't returning to the fold). I know there were rumors about Casper Wyoming joining the CHL last summer, and there's some rumblings of labor issues with the WHL in Washington state. I wouldn't want to hang my hat on either one...but there's not much else that I can see.
Another team in the southeast could also be helpful in creating a six team division, and it seems like there may be some better options available for markets. Could any of the SPHL ownership be convinced to buy into to the ECHL?
Losing the teams in California put a bigger financial burden on the remaining ECHL teams in the west....
Alaska
Utah
Colorado
Idaho
Will these survive without the California teams????
I honestly do not know.
Alaska
Utah
Colorado
Idaho
Will these survive without the California teams????
I honestly do not know.
JungleJON
Registered User
- May 10, 2011
- 306
- 10
I think the teams in the SPHL are happy where they are at. Pensacola, Knoxville, Columbus, Huntsville and Louisiana were all at one time or another in the ECHL. Don't think any of them want to return.
If they lose Peoria, it will actually be better for them. Macon, GA will be joining again next season.
If we end up with 30-30-30 I think it will be good for hockey in general.
You might see a few AHL cities join after they lose their team and cannot find a replacement. Who they are is anybody's guess.
If they lose Peoria, it will actually be better for them. Macon, GA will be joining again next season.
If we end up with 30-30-30 I think it will be good for hockey in general.
You might see a few AHL cities join after they lose their team and cannot find a replacement. Who they are is anybody's guess.
hkymnky
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2010
- 139
- 0
I admit the SPHL speculation was wishful thinking on my part.
Looking at the ECHL team map there's a very clear corridor going from Oklahoma to western New York with the majority of the league's teams.
The two exceptions are a southeastern cluster of Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina, and a handful of western teams spread over South Dakota, Colorado, Utah, and Idaho. If these two outlying groups are to remain viable over the long term they will likely need additional support (and franchises) from the league. That doesn't mean I think they'll get it.
Meanwhile additional teams in the northeast could also work, but I think it will depend a great deal on the relationship those teams have with the AHL and NHL teams in the region. Elmira's affiliation with Buffalo and Rochester is a good example of what I'm talking about. I could see an ECHL team in Worcester or maybe Manchester, but they would need to have a strong regional affiliate like Boston to stand any chance of success.
Looking at the ECHL team map there's a very clear corridor going from Oklahoma to western New York with the majority of the league's teams.
The two exceptions are a southeastern cluster of Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina, and a handful of western teams spread over South Dakota, Colorado, Utah, and Idaho. If these two outlying groups are to remain viable over the long term they will likely need additional support (and franchises) from the league. That doesn't mean I think they'll get it.
Meanwhile additional teams in the northeast could also work, but I think it will depend a great deal on the relationship those teams have with the AHL and NHL teams in the region. Elmira's affiliation with Buffalo and Rochester is a good example of what I'm talking about. I could see an ECHL team in Worcester or maybe Manchester, but they would need to have a strong regional affiliate like Boston to stand any chance of success.
Avsrule2022
"No more rats"
The addition of the CHL teams to the ECHL will give Colorado pretty much the same kind of travel they had when they were in the CHL. Actually, other than Alaska, it will probably be a little better for the Eagles. But it definitely doesnt help Alaska, Idaho or Utah if the 3 California ECHL teams disappear.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
That's an awful lot of money to piss on the cheapest-looking section on the ECHL website.
But, as for new markets, going into SPHL territory isn't likely. Even with the league's problems, they like the way things are. You could try cracking at the former CHL markets that are now serviced by the NAHL, but that is unlikely. And, the northeast doesn't look too viable, even if you score one market abandoned.
OKC & Peoria look to be 2015 add-ons.
hkymnky
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2010
- 139
- 0
Agreed.
Looking forward (and wearing my rose colored glasses) it would be great to see minor league hockey finally break into a pacific northwest market like Spokane, Everett, or Kennewick. Its highly unlikely, but I feel like a team in one or more of those markets could go a long way to solidifying the ECHL's presence in the west.
They already have to fly most places, so it shouldn't really be all that different. They'll play former CHL teams if the California teams go AHL.
