Eberle Must Go

[duul]

Wingers like that are servicable..
Guess what other winger who's PPG 0.77 over his career?
Kessel, who makes 8 mill a year and is -65 in his career.
SC winner...and a big part of it.

Kessel played against 3rd pairing competition with a very good defensive centreman, is incredibly fast, and is one of the best one-shot scorers in the entire NHL.

He played on a horrific team his entire career. Comparing him to Eberle is hysterical. Eberle can not score goals from the outside and does not skate fast. Have you even seen Eberle score a goal off the rush from the top of the circle? No, you haven't. Players like Eberle are becoming obsolete in a NHL that is constantly evolving defensively. You score goals off the rush by shooting the puck as a sniper and having people crash the net for rebounds. Or, you cycle off the boards in the offensive zone and crash the net from the corner. OR, you find succeed on the PP.

Eberle does none of these things. He has found success off the rush by skating in close and dekeing out a defender and scoring from very in close. Or, he found success on the PP by making deft passes and fancy plays.

In the past 3 years we have seen a huge increase in teams building their teams based off CORSI numbers. This means defencemen and even forwards learning how to stifle players like Eberle, and keeping them to the outside. You now see a tiny, slow, weak winger buttonhooking just inside the blueline, getting muscled off the puck, and killing a chance.

While McDavid has more offensive talent than Crosby, I don't think he will ever hit his numbers for this reason. Crosby was built perfectly for the current NHL game. Huge tree trunk legs and power down low makes him a God in the corners. He uses that short stick to maneuver quickly down low in piles of opponents. The short stick lets him cut to the net and get insanely fast snap shots and backhands off.

McDavid is far more methodical and hasn't yet found out how to be very effective in the corners and coming out of them.

As for Eberle, it's why we see players like Pitlick and Maroon finding success. They crash the net, battle in the corners, and possess hard shots. That's how you win in the current NHL. You might like that he has more offensive skill than these players, but that doesn't necessarily translate into being a better player or a more effective player any longer.

I think of Kessel like this: if Kessel wasn't fast, he would be Michael Ryder. If he wasn't fast and didn't have a laser beam snapshot, he would be Jordan Eberle.

 

[Up the Irons]

Roll with

Lucic McDavid RNH
Maroon Draisaitl Eberle

And stick with it for more than 10 minutes. They will break out of their slumps I feel.

mark me down for this one, too. Just want to see it.

too bad that Eberle is a drag on whichever line he is on right now. One can say 'keep Ebs away from Drai while he is on a roll', or 'put Ebs with Drai because he is on a roll and keep Ebs away from McD, as he is on a bit of a lull'

there's no perfect lineup, yet.

just gonna have to wait it out. he'll climb out eventually.

I would also like to see Kassian get a shot in the top 6. Swap him out with Ebs for a couple games. why not? coures, Ebs is way too soft for the bottom 6. Man, he's getting to be a problem.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Kessel played against 3rd pairing competition with a very good defensive centreman, is incredibly fast, and is one of the best one-shot scorers in the entire NHL.

He played on a horrific team his entire career. Comparing him to Eberle is hysterical. Eberle can not score goals from the outside and does not skate fast. Have you even seen Eberle score a goal off the rush from the top of the circle? No, you haven't. Players like Eberle are becoming obsolete in a NHL that is constantly evolving defensively. You score goals off the rush by shooting the puck as a sniper and having people crash the net for rebounds. Or, you cycle off the boards in the offensive zone and crash the net from the corner. OR, you find succeed on the PP.

Eberle does none of these things. He has found success off the rush by skating in close and dekeing out a defender and scoring from very in close. Or, he found success on the PP by making deft passes and fancy plays.

In the past 3 years we have seen a huge increase in teams building their teams based off CORSI numbers. This means defencemen and even forwards learning how to stifle players like Eberle, and keeping them to the outside. You now see a tiny, slow, weak winger buttonhooking just inside the blueline, getting muscled off the puck, and killing a chance.

While McDavid has more offensive talent than Crosby, I don't think he will ever hit his numbers for this reason. Crosby was built perfectly for the current NHL game. Huge tree trunk legs and power down low makes him a God in the corners. He uses that short stick to maneuver quickly down low in piles of opponents. The short stick lets him cut to the net and get insanely fast snap shots and backhands off.

McDavid is far more methodical and hasn't yet found out how to be very effective in the corners and coming out of them.

As for Eberle, it's why we see players like Pitlick and Maroon finding success. They crash the net, battle in the corners, and possess hard shots. That's how you win in the current NHL. You might like that he has more offensive skill than these players, but that doesn't necessarily translate into being a better player or a more effective player any longer.

I think of Kessel like this: if Kessel wasn't fast, he would be Michael Ryder. If he wasn't fast and didn't have a laser beam snapshot, he would be Jordan Eberle.

You use words like Corsi and fail in this post to say Kessel has been a poor Corsi player his whole career, while Ebs has been a positive Corsi player. Meaning he gains the ozone and the puck tends to stay in the zone generating quality chances. That is not a player getting muscled off the puck every 2 seconds. That is not a player who has no idea how to come out of corners.

You say players like Ebs are becoming obsolete cuz teams are learning how to play him b/c of Corsi . He is having his best Corsi year as of right now, and is in a slump, playing with another center half the year who is also in a slump. That makes zero sense. If dmen were learning how to play him...wouldn't he have less zone time? I'm confused

60+ point/positive Corsi depth player who can generate points on 2nd line units aswell. Obsolete? Gimme a break

 

[duul]

You use words like Corsi and fail in this post to say Kessel has been a poor Corsi player his whole career, while Ebs has been a positive Corsi player. Meaning he gains the ozone and the puck tends to stay in the zone generating quality chances. That is not a player getting muscled off the puck every 2 seconds. That is not a player who has no idea how to come out of corners.

You say players like Ebs are becoming obsolete cuz teams are learning how to play him b/c of Corsi . He is having his best Corsi year as of right now, and is in a slump, playing with another center half the year who is also in a slump. That makes zero sense. If dmen were learning how to play him...wouldn't he have less zone time? I'm confused

60+ point/positive Corsi depth player who can generate points on 2nd line units aswell. Obsolete? Gimme a break

I'm saying teams are adapting to the game based off CORSI numbers and the strategy they use is to push the opponent to the outside of the ice and allow them to take shots from the ouside and do everything they can to not let the get inside. Eberle thrives when he gets inside, and is utterly useless when pushed to the outside.

Kessel is still dangerous from the outside on the rush because he possesses a very dangerous shot. Players with bad CORSI can find success in the current systems, of course. Do you disagree that Eberle is useless along the boards or outside the hashmarks in general?

Players like Ovechkin, Laine, Kessel, etc with wicked shots score with those shots from all over the ice. Eberle only scores goals from very in close, which is what the NHL systems are now specifically designed to stop.

How you get the idea that what I was saying is bad CORSI = bad player is insanity.

 

[VainGretzky]

Gagner garbage get rid of him Jultz garbage get rid of him . Dubnyk garbage get rid of him . What a joke HF Oil have to hate on someone

 

[bobbythebrain]

I'm saying teams are adapting to the game based off CORSI numbers and the strategy they use is to push the opponent to the outside of the ice and allow them to take shots from the ouside and do everything they can to not let the get inside. Eberle thrives when he gets inside, and is utterly useless when pushed to the outside.

Kessel is still dangerous from the outside on the rush because he possesses a very dangerous shot. Players with bad CORSI can find success in the current systems, of course. Do you disagree that Eberle is useless along the boards or outside the hashmarks in general?

Players like Ovechkin, Laine, Kessel, etc with wicked shots score with those shots from all over the ice. Eberle only scores goals from very in close, which is what the NHL systems are now specifically designed to stop.

How you get the idea that what I was saying is bad CORSI = bad player is insanity.

No, what it seems like is you tried to use some advanced stats to show the league figured him out, but didn't realize his advanced stats till this point this year are actually better, and if the guy wasn't in a slump(which he is, everyone knows it), those #'s would be that much better.

That is not a guy the league "figured out" 60 point player/20 goals a year consistently is not a player dmen figured out or is obsolete. When he is, then it will be soccer. 1 goal games

 

[VainGretzky]

No, what it seems like is you tried to use some advanced stats to show the league figured him out, but didn't realize his advanced stats till this point this year are actually better, and if the guy wasn't in a slump(which he is, everyone knows it), those #'s would be that much better.

That is not a guy the league "figured out" 60 point player/20 goals a year consistently is not a player dmen figured out or is obsolete. When he is, then it will be soccer. 1 goal games

The Irony he has slumped bad all season and still top 50 in scoring , both him and Nuge will have way better rest of the season and the club will benifit. Why I am really thinking we make playoffs this year. Eberle always turns it on 2nd half of the season.

 

[The Safe Play]

I dont want to get rid of Eberle but he had been garbage this year. Plays with no intensity, loses every puck battle, and is a drag on teammates. Needs to step up his game for the sake of the team.

 

[jimab1971]

Schultz another 2 pt night. He now has 6 goals 14 assists. He also now is +21 on the season.

It was obvious he didn't want to be in Edmonton but let's also realize this is a talented defenseman.

 

[belair]

Schultz another 2 pt night. He now has 6 goals 14 assists. He also now is +21 on the season.

It was obvious he didn't want to be in Edmonton but let's also realize this is a talented defenseman.

That can't be possible.

Apparently you can't shelter a poor defensive player by supporting him with better defensive players.

 

[Asiaoil]

You use words like Corsi and fail in this post to say Kessel has been a poor Corsi player his whole career, while Ebs has been a positive Corsi player. Meaning he gains the ozone and the puck tends to stay in the zone generating quality chances. That is not a player getting muscled off the puck every 2 seconds. That is not a player who has no idea how to come out of corners.

You say players like Ebs are becoming obsolete cuz teams are learning how to play him b/c of Corsi . He is having his best Corsi year as of right now, and is in a slump, playing with another center half the year who is also in a slump. That makes zero sense. If dmen were learning how to play him...wouldn't he have less zone time? I'm confused

60+ point/positive Corsi depth player who can generate points on 2nd line units aswell. Obsolete? Gimme a break

I said I was done with this but you are spouting complete nonsense and literally no frakin clue about any hockey stats. Seriously - quit embarrassing yourself.

You consistently refuse to accept GF because you say it's a "team stat" but accept corsi? WTF? Corsi simply tracks shots while a player is on the ice including shots on goal, missed shots and blocked shots for and against. It does not proves Eberle "gains the ozone". Tracking zone entry/exits is an entirely separate analysis. If you think Eberle is contributing to cycling and keeping the puck in the offensive zone and board work you desperately need glasses. You have no proof for any of this gibberish and if you took the time to look up the comparative numbers and zone data (or even just watch a game) you would see that what you are saying is total BS.

In fact a positive Corsi and poor GA number makes perfect sense with Eberle. He has always played with far better players like Hall or McDavid who actually drive a positive shot differential - but he gives up high danger scoring chances against at an alarming rate which sewers his GA. GA/GF, Corsi and Fenwick are team stats but you can tease out individual contributions with comparative analysis and seeing how players do away from teammates. You are just too lazy or too manipulative to do it.

An example from the very smart Woodguy and GMoney site:

Eberle is scoring at a 3rd line rate with McDavid (1.65pts/60)
Eberle & McDavid 5v5 GF ON/60 = 2.36
McDavid w/o 14 5v5 GF ON/60 = 3.80

A whole lot of "nonperformance with the best player in the NHL" in their words. Lucic has equally underperformed but at least he brings a serious physical presence, board work, and ability to cycle which Eberle clearly does not. Bottom line is that you are just making stuff up but don't abuse stats you clearly don't understand to try put lipstick on Eberle's piggish season.

 

[Asiaoil]

Kessel played against 3rd pairing competition with a very good defensive centreman, is incredibly fast, and is one of the best one-shot scorers in the entire NHL.

He played on a horrific team his entire career. Comparing him to Eberle is hysterical. Eberle can not score goals from the outside and does not skate fast. Have you even seen Eberle score a goal off the rush from the top of the circle? No, you haven't. Players like Eberle are becoming obsolete in a NHL that is constantly evolving defensively. You score goals off the rush by shooting the puck as a sniper and having people crash the net for rebounds. Or, you cycle off the boards in the offensive zone and crash the net from the corner. OR, you find succeed on the PP.

Eberle does none of these things. He has found success off the rush by skating in close and dekeing out a defender and scoring from very in close. Or, he found success on the PP by making deft passes and fancy plays.

In the past 3 years we have seen a huge increase in teams building their teams based off CORSI numbers. This means defencemen and even forwards learning how to stifle players like Eberle, and keeping them to the outside. You now see a tiny, slow, weak winger buttonhooking just inside the blueline, getting muscled off the puck, and killing a chance.

While McDavid has more offensive talent than Crosby, I don't think he will ever hit his numbers for this reason. Crosby was built perfectly for the current NHL game. Huge tree trunk legs and power down low makes him a God in the corners. He uses that short stick to maneuver quickly down low in piles of opponents. The short stick lets him cut to the net and get insanely fast snap shots and backhands off.

McDavid is far more methodical and hasn't yet found out how to be very effective in the corners and coming out of them.

As for Eberle, it's why we see players like Pitlick and Maroon finding success. They crash the net, battle in the corners, and possess hard shots. That's how you win in the current NHL. You might like that he has more offensive skill than these players, but that doesn't necessarily translate into being a better player or a more effective player any longer.

I think of Kessel like this: if Kessel wasn't fast, he would be Michael Ryder. If he wasn't fast and didn't have a laser beam snapshot, he would be Jordan Eberle.

Great post - thanks for taking the time to create it - the last line is hilarious.

 

[Canovin]

Unless Eberle takes a major paycut like Schultz and Gagner, he won't be an Oiler passed his current contract. Using Gagner and Schultz as examples is pointless as they were traded because they were too expensive for what they brought to the table

 

[Faelko]

what GM in their right mind would take on 6M for that POS

Half of them...at least.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Jordan Eberle now has three goals in the last thirty days. Including last year, he has 14 goals in his last 60 games- good enough for 19 over a full season. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) he's also been a + in just 15 of his last 60 games.

How can anyone still be a fan of this guy? He clearly doesn't care about being a professional athlete; why should you spend a millisecond caring about him?

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

He looked marginally better tonight, but that's not saying much.

3 games on McDavid's wing and you can count his scoring chances on one hand.

 

[Throttlehead]

He looked marginally better tonight, but that's not saying much.

3 games on McDavid's wing and you can count his scoring chances on one hand.

You're as blind as the refs were tonight.

 

[Throttlehead]

Jordan Eberle now has three goals in the last thirty days. Including last year, he has 14 goals in his last 60 games- good enough for 19 over a full season. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) he's also been a + in just 15 of his last 60 games.

How can anyone still be a fan of this guy? He clearly doesn't care about being a professional athlete; why should you spend a millisecond caring about him?

There are about 3 of you guys that are getting to the point of strange weirdness concerning your obsession with Eberle.

 

[Asiaoil]

He looked marginally better tonight, but that's not saying much.

3 games on McDavid's wing and you can count his scoring chances on one hand.

Sure he looked pretty good out there for the first two periods - harder on the puck and more determined in the offensive zone than I've seen in ages. Not $6 million worth of pretty good - but decent none the less. But he was invisible in the 3rd period when the game got serious and dirty. This is where the pretty boys Oilers of the Hall years used to simply fold up and disappear while handing over their lunch money (and 2 points). This is a different team and it's learning to win by being both skilled and tough. Looking forward to the day when we replace Ebs with another big nasty RW who can shoot and we will make a lot of teams simply tap out and meekly hand over the points.

Ebs doesn't have a single point in 5 games but he's is very predictable this season - he manages to score every 8 games - so I predict his twice a month scoring binge will occur Friday night in SJ

 

[belair]

You're as blind as the refs were tonight.

And people are whining why we're not playing Caggiula and Puljujarvi more...

 

[s7ark]

Thread is past 1000. Closing.