Proposal: Duchene to Ottawa

[ScotM]

Would Zibanejad + Ceci be enough to acquire Duchene?

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[Pierre from Orleans]

Would Zibanejad + Ceci be enough to acquire Duchene?

No it would not. Trading Ceci would create a hole that Ottawa just recently filled.

 

[KingsCourt]

Would Zibanejad + Ceci be enough to acquire Duchene?

that's a joke...right?

 

[ChrisWinsor]

Overpayment from Ottawa, no thx.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

No it doesn't get you Duchene.

 

[trentmccleary]

Do not want Duchene. This is a bad idea that gets brought up over and over again.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

No on Duchene

 

[AslanRH]

Would Zibanejad + Ceci be enough to acquire Duchene?

I thought early in 15-16 that would be the deal when there were whispers, but Sens fans hated it then, and now I don't think it would be enough for Avs fans.

All in all though, I would still probably be not-unhappy with that trade, but am at the point I'd rather just keep Duchene even if it meant he moved permanently to RW.

 

[Benjamin]

This makes the Sens a worse team. Easy pass.

 

[playasRus]

Too many natural centres and not enough D in Ottawa.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

No thanks from this Avs fan. Ceci hasn't shown enough to be a better option than just going with who we've got (EJ, Barrie, Zads, Bigras) and Zibby is a couple steps down from Duchy. We don't need a quality for quantity type trade where the Avs divvy up value into multiple players.

 

[Balthazar]

Bad trade for both teams I suppose.

 

[KevinRedkey]

No it would not. Trading Ceci would create a hole that Ottawa just recently filled.

Which will happen with the expansion draft.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Both teams hang up at the same time

 

[Hale The Villain]

Would Zibanejad + Ceci be enough to acquire Duchene?

Would be an vast overpayment by the Senators.

The difference between Zibanejad and Duchene last season was 10 points. Zibanejad is still developing as a player, while Duchene is fully developed. Zibanejad is two years younger, bigger, cheaper, better defensively, more physical and a better fit on the Sens. Duchene is a UFA in two years, and will likely require a 6-7M salary on a long-term deal, while Zibanejad is a cost-controlled asset that will cost significantly less to re-sign. For the money conscious Senators, swapping these two centers very well could result in trading 5+ years of Zibanejad for 3 years of Duchene. For all these reasons I'm not even sure Ottawa would pull the trigger on a one-for-one deal of Zibanejad for Duchene, even though no one will argue Zibanejad is the better player at this point in his career.

A slightly better young RD in Adam Larsson just returned Taylor Hall straight up. Young cost-controlled top 4 RD have tremendous value in this league. With rumors of Duchene being offered for Trouba, a slightly better albeit more expensive D to re-sign, I expect Ceci would almost be able to return Duchene in a one-for-one deal.

So yeah, Avs take this and run. Sens would never offer such a deal, as doing so makes them a far worse team.

 

[Bordeleau Of Blood]

So yeah, Avs take this and run. Sens would never offer such a deal, as doing so makes them a far worse team.

No, they don't, but keep flattering yourself.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Would be an vast overpayment by the Senators.

The difference between Zibanejad and Duchene last season was 10 points. Zibanejad is still developing as a player, while Duchene is fully developed. Zibanejad is two years younger, bigger, cheaper, better defensively, more physical and a better fit on the Sens. Duchene is a UFA in two years, and will likely require a 6-7M salary on a long-term deal, while Zibanejad is a cost-controlled asset that will cost significantly less to re-sign. For the money conscious Senators, swapping these two centers very well could result in trading 5+ years of Zibanejad for 3 years of Duchene. For all these reasons I'm not even sure Ottawa would pull the trigger on a one-for-one deal of Zibanejad for Duchene, even though no one will argue Zibanejad is the better player at this point in his career.

A slightly better young RD in Adam Larsson just returned Taylor Hall straight up. Young cost-controlled top 4 RD have tremendous value in this league. With rumors of Duchene being offered for Trouba, a slightly better albeit more expensive D to re-sign, I expect Ceci would almost be able to return Duchene in a one-for-one deal.

So yeah, Avs take this and run. Sens would never offer such a deal, as doing so makes them a far worse team.

This is a ridiculous post.

Avs would never take this deal, alone Ceci for Duchene one for one. Why would Colorado trade their best player to add a RHD who would be 3rd on their depth chart.

 

[tucker3434]

Would be an vast overpayment by the Senators.

The difference between Zibanejad and Duchene last season was 10 points. Zibanejad is still developing as a player, while Duchene is fully developed. Zibanejad is two years younger, bigger, cheaper, better defensively, more physical and a better fit on the Sens. Duchene is a UFA in two years, and will likely require a 6-7M salary on a long-term deal, while Zibanejad is a cost-controlled asset that will cost significantly less to re-sign. For the money conscious Senators, swapping these two centers very well could result in trading 5+ years of Zibanejad for 3 years of Duchene. For all these reasons I'm not even sure Ottawa would pull the trigger on a one-for-one deal of Zibanejad for Duchene, even though no one will argue Zibanejad is the better player at this point in his career.

A slightly better young RD in Adam Larsson just returned Taylor Hall straight up. Young cost-controlled top 4 RD have tremendous value in this league. With rumors of Duchene being offered for Trouba, a slightly better albeit more expensive D to re-sign, I expect Ceci would almost be able to return Duchene in a one-for-one deal.

So yeah, Avs take this and run. Sens would never offer such a deal, as doing so makes them a far worse team.

So I take it you're a Sens fan...

One of the more slanted takes I've seen recently.

 

[topshelf15]

Far too much an overpayment ,We arent trading a 22 year old top 4 RHD.Col fans are underating Ceci vastly here ,and overvaluing Duchene

 

[Bileur]

So I take it you're a Sens fan...

One of the more slanted takes I've seen recently.

While the Ceci for Duchene straight up part may be a little over the top. Try to answer to his points about the difference between Zibanejad and Duchene.

 

[Zorf]

The difference between Zibanejad and Duchene last season was 10 points. Zibanejad is still developing as a player, while Duchene is fully developed. Zibanejad is two years younger, bigger, cheaper, better defensively, more physical and a better fit on the Sens. Duchene is a UFA in two years, and will likely require a 6-7M salary on a long-term deal, while Zibanejad is a cost-controlled asset that will cost significantly less to re-sign. For the money conscious Senators, swapping these two centers very well could result in trading 5+ years of Zibanejad for 3 years of Duchene. For all these reasons I'm not even sure Ottawa would pull the trigger on a one-for-one deal of Zibanejad for Duchene, even though no one will argue Zibanejad is the better player at this point in his career.

While the Ceci for Duchene straight up part may be a little over the top. Try to answer to his points about the difference between Zibanejad and Duchene.

I'm a Sens fan and I would question the two bolded parts for sure.

First, let's not act like Zib is any sort of top level defensive talent. He's entirely average at that. If Duchene is entirely average as well, then that is a wash. Granted, I do not know nearly enough about Duchene's overall game to fully comment on that, but knowing Zib's game, I'm pretty sure that isn't something to put much value in.

As for being a better fit on the Sens, I would disagree. The Senators need a better play making centre to work with Hoffman and/or Ryan, considering that Turris will likely not be paired with both of them at the same time.

Zibanejad isn't a puck distributing centre. He's more of a drive the net type of guy, or a player who sets up to hammer a one-timer from the off-wing. For players like Hoffman or Ryan to excel in their roles on the team, the Sens need a 2C (or a 1C depending on how you view Turris) who is better at distributing the puck. In this sense, I would say that Duchene is a much better fit for the Senators.

Granted, that does not factor in dollars and contracts. Because the cheaper player of the two is obviously the better fit in that regard.

 

[Section ThirtyOne]

How many centres do we need?

Not a position of need, trading Ceci would be foolish.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Can't trade Ceci at this point, he's blossomed over the last half year. I want Duchene, but I don't see a fit anymore. I don't even think I'd want to move Chabot + Zibanejad or White + Zibanejad for him.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Zibby isn't better than Duchene defensively. He's projected to be and came out of the draft as a potential two way stud but he isn't that yet. It's like when people call Sean Monahan great defensively. He may be in the future, but he isn't very good yet. Saying either Duchene or Zibby are better than the other defensively is being a total homer of the team you cheer for.

For the rest of their games the two aren't close. I always hear Sens fans saying Duchene is only good for 10 more points than Z but where did this come from? From last season when Duchene had one of his worst statistical seasons while Zibanejad had a career year at 51 points? That's just dumb. You don't compare the highs of one players career to the lows of the other.

Careers:
Duchene: 377pts in 495gms = .762PPG = 62 points per 82 games played
Zibanejad : 151pts in 281gms = 0.537PPG = 44 points per 82 games played

Last 3 seasons combined:
Duchene: 184pts in 229 gms = 0.803PPG = 66 points per 82 games played
Zibanejad: 130 pts in 230 gms = 0.565PPG = 46 points per 82 games played

Last season only:
Duchene: 59 points in 76 games = 0.776PPG = 64 points per 82 games played
Zibanejad: 51 points in 81 games = 0.630PPG = 52 points per 82 games played


So Please, fans of the Ottawa Senators stop saying that Matt Duchene is only 10 points better than Zibanejad. You're all very wrong when you say that.

 

[Avs44]

Would be an vast overpayment by the Senators.

The difference between Zibanejad and Duchene last season was 10 points. Zibanejad is still developing as a player, while Duchene is fully developed. Zibanejad is two years younger, bigger, cheaper, better defensively, more physical and a better fit on the Sens. Duchene is a UFA in two years, and will likely require a 6-7M salary on a long-term deal, while Zibanejad is a cost-controlled asset that will cost significantly less to re-sign. For the money conscious Senators, swapping these two centers very well could result in trading 5+ years of Zibanejad for 3 years of Duchene. For all these reasons I'm not even sure Ottawa would pull the trigger on a one-for-one deal of Zibanejad for Duchene, even though no one will argue Zibanejad is the better player at this point in his career.

A slightly better young RD in Adam Larsson just returned Taylor Hall straight up. Young cost-controlled top 4 RD have tremendous value in this league. With rumors of Duchene being offered for Trouba, a slightly better albeit more expensive D to re-sign, I expect Ceci would almost be able to return Duchene in a one-for-one deal.

So yeah, Avs take this and run. Sens would never offer such a deal, as doing so makes them a far worse team.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of this, but as I've posted before, this myth needs to die. Let's deal with some actual facts about Zibanejad being a two way centre.

- Zibanejad got an utterly ridiculous 60+% of his starts in the offensive zone, 18th highest among all centre's who played over 30 games last year
- He faced similar competition to Duchene
- Played with top linemates (Ryan, Karlsson, Hoffman)
- Did not suppress shots against any better than Duchene
- Is far worse on faceoffs than Duchene (50% vs 57%)
- More goals against per 60 minutes than Duchene
- Nearly identical relative corsi

He had a superior raw corsi by a bit, but considering Duchene was on the worst possession team in the league, that's not surprise. I'm just curious to understand how the superior defensive player got top offensive linemates, more offensive zone starts, and somehow was on ice for more goals against per 60 minutes, and was on ice or a similar amount of shots against as well. Regarding offense,


Offensively, Zibanejad has a career high of 51 points, a threshold Duchene has surpassed five times in seven years - and one of those two seasons he did not was the lockout year, and in 47 games Duchene was only 8 points shy of beating 51 points again too. The other year he did not was the season in which he only played 58 games and played through injuries the entire year. If we extrapolate his lockout year, he has surpassed Zibanejad's career high in points 6 times in 7 years, and the one season he did not was when he was injured.