Proposal: Dubois to Penguins

[Sidney the Kidney]

This Pens team under Sullivan the last handful of season has a tendency to mail it in too often, which has cost them the playoffs two years running. I'm not sure adding a player who is known to mail it in too often is a smart add to that kind of team.

I mean, I suppose he'd fit in perfectly, but it certainly doesn't *improve* the situation.

 

[SEALBound]

This Pens team under Sullivan the last handful of season has a tendency to mail it in too often, which has cost them the playoffs two years running. I'm not sure adding a player who is known to mail it in too often is a smart add to that kind of team.

I mean, I suppose he'd fit in perfectly, but it certainly doesn't *improve* the situation.

Seems like the perfect team for PLD.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

To Pens: Dubois and Gavrikov
To Kings: Smith and Graves

Change of scenery trade that has LA and Pit move on from long-term deals for players that didn't work for them.

eventually Dubois will run out of sceneries to change from.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Seems like the perfect team for PLD.

Sullivan hockey

 

[chethejet]

Pens have two contracts that are not killers here. Both Jarry and Graves have shown to be good players in the past. Both have contracts with 4 years left and are not financial albatrosses as such. the center that LA is stuck with is simply not worth going after no matter the deal. Play Pens have Yagar, Poulin and Ponomarev coming as centers. Plus Broz can also play center if needed. Big no thanks here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Pens have two contracts that are not killers here. Both Jarry and Graves have shown to be good players in the past. Both have contracts with 4 years left and are not financial albatrosses as such. the center that LA is stuck with is simply not worth going after no matter the deal. Play Pens have Yagar, Poulin and Ponomarev coming as centers. Plus Broz can also play center if needed. Big no thanks here.

Dubois plays center or LW. He's brings size and snarl the team has nowhere else on the roster, he's only 25, and prior to this year had consecutive 27+ goal and 60+ point seasons. Our current best winger - Rust - hasn't ever hit 60 points despite being stapled to a generational talent. Does one 40 point season for Dubois change that?

Graves will only work here if he can complement one of two risk-taking defensemen in Letang or Karlsson - what part of his skillset makes you think he can do that?

Jarry has let down this team every single year down the stretch when it counted. Why is that changing at age 29?

Yager, Poulin, and Pono have 8 NHL games between them. Are you counting on them to be major contributors over the next couple seasons?

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's interesting how perspectives change on a player in just one year.

Agreed. Probably going to change more (better or worse) in another year. One thing I don't fall for is the up/down rollercoaster bandwagon ride.

These situations are usually fluid.

 

[Habs Halifax]

eventually Dubois will run out of sceneries to change from.

Not saying this is true for sure but could be... Some going to laugh because people like to hate today. But here is a potential reality from Dubois's angle.

1) Asked out of Columbus and wanted to be traded to the Habs.
2) Jets interfered and offered Laine/Rost
3) Went to the Jets and was very uninspired in the 1st year.
4) Talked to his agent and he told him to have a good season and he will help him reach UFA as fast as he can. Had a good 2nd season with the Jets
5) Tons of Habs trade rumors and Dubois's agent said... I can confirm my client would like to play for the Habs one day
6) Kings then interfered (like the Jets did) and paid a futures price to acquire. Habs could not make that offer during our rebuild. Dubois realizes this and also realizes that Habs probably can't pay him higher than Suzuki so he accepts going to LA thinking he will have a top 6 role.
7) Kings basically placed him on the 3rd line trying to ice 3 competitive lines but Dubois leading a line by himself is not going to give you the results you expect.

I think the Kings coach needs to rethink his strategy ($8.5M AAV and 15 min/game... brutal). Or Blake can risk his job and buy him out before he turns 26 and then Dubois signs with the Habs for $3M (-) . That would be funny

 

[SEALBound]

Not saying this is true for sure but could be... Some going to laugh because people like to hate today. But here is a potential reality from Dubois's angle.

1) Asked out of Columbus and wanted to be traded to the Habs.
2) Jets interfered and offered Laine/Rost
3) Went to the Jets and was very uninspired in the 1st year.
4) Talked to his agent and he told him to have a good season and he will help him reach UFA as fast as he can. Had a good 2nd season with the Jets
5) Tons of Habs trade rumors and Dubois's agent said... I can confirm my client would like to play for the Habs one day
6) Kings then interfered (like the Jets did) and paid a futures price to acquire. Habs could not make that offer during our rebuild. Dubois realizes this and also realizes that Habs probably can't pay him higher than Suzuki so he accepts going to LA thinking he will have a top 6 role.
7) Kings basically placed him on the 3rd line trying to ice 3 competitive lines but Dubois leading a line by himself is not going to give you the results you expect.

I think the Kings coach needs to rethink his strategy ($8.5M AAV and 15 min/game... brutal). Or Blake can risk his job and buy him out before he turns 26 and then Dubois signs with the Habs for $3M (-) . That would be funny

All true but at one point or another, he's been called out for effort on all three teams.

 

[chethejet]

The issue is at some point, you have to be that player most project you to be. He simply isn't that. Teams trading for him had the same expectation, to be a number 1 center and be a difference maker. He isn't, not even close. NO I am not expecting Poulin, Ponomarev, Yagar or Briz to be that, But they can be solid 2 to 4 centers in time. Even with a cap going up and that contract taking smaller % of the cap, his play is simply not worth the contract of 8.5 AAV for 7 years. I was open to him being a Pen, but just hasn't made a difference when it counted.

 

[Habs Halifax]

All true but at one point or another, he's been called out for effort on all three teams.

Yup, it's true but the part I see is fans going overboard with it (like they usually do). He's not consistent but he does produce when playing with talent.

Call him a cry baby yes but not so sure the Kings managed him well either. I think it's a combo of the two which makes it look so bad today. Because of the history, fans/media are not going to call out the coach's strategy and they will focus on Dubois only.

This is on the Kings and only the Kings. They paid a price, signed him to a big deal and I'm sure they were aware of his complacent style at times. Right? So why try to have him play 3C over and over again and expect different results?

Blame goes to both Dubois and Kings Management for me.

 

[SEALBound]

Yup, it's true but the part I see is fans going overboard with it (like they usually do). He's not consistent but he does produce when playing with talent.

Call him a cry baby yes but not so sure the Kings managed him well either. I think it's a combo of the two which makes it look so bad today. Because of the history, fans/media are not going to call out the coach's strategy and they will focus on Dubois only.

This is on the Kings and only the Kings. They paid a price, signed him to a big deal and I'm sure they were aware of his complacent style at times. Right? So why try to have him play 3C over and over again and expect different results?

Blame goes to both Dubois and Kings Management for me.

I would agree with that.

If he came out and said he wants the Habs and he has shown pouty, inconsistent effort levels in all three cities, why do the Penguins trade for him?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would agree with that.

If he came out and said he wants the Habs and he has shown pouty, inconsistent effort levels in all three cities, why do the Penguins trade for him?

Doubt the Pens do this. Doesn't seem like a Dubas type player for me.

Bet you the Kings do nothing and try to manage it better next year. If I had to bet money on something, it would be this. I like to talk about possible trade ideas because that's what we are here for but reality tells me the Kings won't make panic moves after year 1 of Dubois. Small chance but not 0%

 

[SEALBound]

Doubt the Pens do this. Doesn't seem like a Dubas type player for me.

Bet you the Kings do nothing and try to manage it better next year. If I had to bet money on something, it would be this. I like to talk about possible trade ideas because that's what we are here for but reality tells me the Kings won't make panic moves after year 1 of Dubois. Small chance but not 0%

Yeah, the best route for all parties concerned is to give PLD another year in LA to "be better" and live up to the contract. How that manifests itself with regard to usage and line combos, who knows.

If it doesn't work out, make a trade with Montreal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, the best route for all parties concerned is to give PLD another year in LA to "be better" and live up to the contract. How that manifests itself with regard to usage and line combos, who knows.

If it doesn't work out, make a trade with Montreal.

I'm still a fan of Dubois and I do think he wants to play for the Habs but we just couldn't pay that price and I bet you Hughes didn't want to pay him more than Suzuki either.

Dubois needs the right coach and I do think MSL gets the most out of him. MSL is not in your face like Torts would be but he is very engaged and spends a lot of time 1/1 with each player to talk about where they are and where they should be. He's just smart in a way to get the most but not insult the player at the same time.

Excuses for Dubois yes but it's reality. He needs to be pushed the right way and that is not putting him on the 3rd line with less talent, watching him drown, and then jumping on his back about it. That's what Ducharme did with Caufield. Kings need to try something different if he is with them next year. That I am sure of.

I see only two ways Dubois gets to the Habs

1) Kings really don't like it and buy him out before he turns age 26 on Jun 24th. Cost is 1/3 vs 2/3 of the contract if you buy someone out before age 26. Then Dubois signs for a value contract because the Kings are still paying him. Maybe something like 3x $3M. We owe Dubois nothing and Hughes has his eyes on rebuild/transition

2) Kings take Gallagher and/or Anderson and two small youth players like Harris and Ylonen. Habs get Dubois with retention down to $7M - $7.5M and a 1st for the extra 4 years on top of Gallagher/Anderson. Lots of Habs fans still don't like this idea... can't blame them too much for this

If Dubois fades even more next year, I think the cost to unload him gets higher. That's the risk the Kings will be taking but their hands are really tied in so many ways.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Yeah, the best route for all parties concerned is to give PLD another year in LA to "be better" and live up to the contract. How that manifests itself with regard to usage and line combos, who knows.

If it doesn't work out, make a trade with Montreal.

Montreal isnt trading for PLD. If PLD fails another year in LA then its up to LA to buy him out and I MIGHT see the Habs giving him a league minimum prove it type of deal. The habs have something nice going on with all the young kids and don't need a drama queen to come in and ruin the locker room/on ice play.

 

[chethejet]

When you pay for upside projection and the players simply isn't giving you his best, then he will never really change that. His contract is just to much for at best a second line center even if he was a gamer and played through the whistle. No reason for anyone to spend capital for that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The issue is at some point, you have to be that player most project you to be. He simply isn't that. Teams trading for him had the same expectation, to be a number 1 center and be a difference maker. He isn't, not even close. NO I am not expecting Poulin, Ponomarev, Yagar or Briz to be that, But they can be solid 2 to 4 centers in time. Even with a cap going up and that contract taking smaller % of the cap, his play is simply not worth the contract of 8.5 AAV for 7 years. I was open to him being a Pen, but just hasn't made a difference when it counted.

Nobody said he was.

The trade scenario being discussed saw Graves - an absolutely awful fit in our top 4 who was outperformed by league minimum guys - and his 4.5 mil per contract shipped out. That's the calculation.

 

[Lt Dan]

To Pens: Dubois and Gavrikov
To Kings: Smith and Graves

Change of scenery trade that has LA and Pit move on from long-term deals for players that didn't work for them.

I didn't even have to read it,

Yes

No takey backseys

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

After dealing with Reilly's non competitive ass this past year, I dont want any other guy named Smith for a good while.

 

[Rudy Russo]

After dealing with Reilly's non competitive ass this past year, I dont want any other guy named Smith for a good while.

Sullivan would be forced to play him due to his contract even if he was in his doghouse. I want another top six winger not a over paid centerman.

 

[chethejet]

Yes no one said he was garbage in garbage out trade that benefits each team. Do I think he can play better yes. Do I think he will? No. But would I be open to trading for him down the road if he has 20 goal numbers and his play is at least OK if Pens just have to find a decent center. Maybe. But Dubas has to rebuild the farm here and that is a 3 year job to get the development flow going.