Dreger: NHL expansion fee could be $2 billion

[MMC]

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[No Fun Shogun]

For the honest life of me, I just don't see how a team could ever be profitable with that big of an initial sunk cost.

Erase the Maple Leafs from existence and make a new team in Toronto pay that kind of entry fee, and freaking even they're not going to be in the black for decades.

 

[Headshot77]

That better be for BOTH team #33 and #34. I can see SLC and ATL each dropping a cool billion but the NHL just isn't there yet.

I think SLC and ATL are the next two in line for some time around 2028. SLC should have their new arena for the Jazz done by then and Atlanta will have their new arena district finalized. 1 billion for a team in 2028 makes sense to me.

If Arizona needs to relocate then I still think Houston is the pressure relief valve for the NHL. Maybe it could be QC but then both teams #35 and #36 would need to be western if they want to maintain their precious alignment. And you aren't getting expansion money out of Houston, KC, or really any other area barring a new ownership group coming out of left field.

 

[MNNumbers]

That better be for BOTH team #33 and #34. I can see SLC and ATL each dropping a cool billion but the NHL just isn't there yet.

I think SLC and ATL are the next two in line for some time around 2028. SLC should have their new arena for the Jazz done by then and Atlanta will have their new arena district finalized. 1 billion for a team in 2028 makes sense to me.

If Arizona needs to relocate then I still think Houston is the pressure relief valve for the NHL. Maybe it could be QC but then both teams #35 and #36 would need to be western if they want to maintain their precious alignment. And you aren't getting expansion money out of Houston, KC, or really any other area barring a new ownership group coming out of left field.

I don't want to go too deeply into the rabbit hole, but Houston doesn't seem possible to me. Fertitta isn't going to pay NHL numbers, and there isn't anywhere else to play unless the new ownership builds their own, which isn't going to happen either.

I think SLC is the safety valve now, as much as I am sure the NHL wishes they could have had Houston.

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't want to go too deeply into the rabbit hole, but Houston doesn't seem possible to me. Fertitta isn't going to pay NHL numbers, and there isn't anywhere else to play unless the new ownership builds their own, which isn't going to happen either.

I think SLC is the safety valve now, as much as I am sure the NHL wishes they could have had Houston.

Is the NHL worth $2 bill in SLC? I mean, what are the Jazz worth right now given in recent couple of years AZ Suns were valued at $4 billion and the Milwaukee Bucks at $3.5 billion when they were sold. Add in the lower market Hornets as well at $3 billion. AZ with a newly remodeled arena and Mil with a brand new one as well. Cha got a new one when they returned to the NBA.

 

[MNNumbers]

Is the NHL worth $2 bill in SLC? I mean, what are the Jazz worth right now given in recent couple of years AZ Suns were valued at $4 billion and the Milwaukee Bucks at $3.5 billion when they were sold. Add in the lower market Hornets as well at $3 billion. AZ with a newly remodeled arena and Mil with a brand new one as well. Cha got a new one when they returned to the NBA.

NHL isn't worth 2B anywhere. But SLC is the safety valve in case Meruelo can't get anything happening in Phoenix Valley. That won't be a 2B sale.

 

[edog37]

NHL isn't worth 2B anywhere. But SLC is the safety valve in case Meruelo can't get anything happening in Phoenix Valley. That won't be a 2B sale.

If they get someone to pay it, it’ll happen.

 

[GordonGraham]

If you wanna be an nhl owner couldnt you make an offer to 50% of the current teams and get one for alot less than that

 

[No Fun Shogun]

If you wanna be an nhl owner couldnt you make an offer to 50% of the current teams and get one for alot less than that

Yeah, that’s the thing… is this just a subtle attempt to get someone to offer say a billion even for the Yotes? What savings!

 

[powerstuck]

Is the NHL worth $2 bill in SLC? I mean, what are the Jazz worth right now given in recent couple of years AZ Suns were valued at $4 billion and the Milwaukee Bucks at $3.5 billion when they were sold. Add in the lower market Hornets as well at $3 billion. AZ with a newly remodeled arena and Mil with a brand new one as well. Cha got a new one when they returned to the NBA.

Well given NHL isn’t worth 2$B in New York or Toronto, it definitely isn’t worth that much elsewhere.

Sure on some paper the league and Forbes estimate top teams value to be around 2$B, until Rangers or Leafs or Habs are sold for that much, it’s still just speculation.

 

[Headshot77]

The thing is, none of the franchises are worth 2 bil until someone pays 2 bil. A few years ago we would have been FLOORED by the current prices. Like the Pens going for 750milliom would be INSANE to think about just 20 years ago.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The thing is, none of the franchises are worth 2 bil until someone pays 2 bil. A few years ago we would have been FLOORED by the current prices. Like the Pens going for 750milliom would be INSANE to think about just 20 years ago.

And to think all of this kicked off with Donald Sterling saying the N word.

 

[Ernie]

This seems like an attempt to justify a large relocation fee when the Coyotes move.

 

[Jumptheshark]

got to be one of the stupidest ideas of all time. NHL owners and anyone who likes this idea is just desperate for money or greedy

NHL 32 teams
NBA 30 teams
NFL 32 teams
MLB 30 teams

whether fans, owners, media or whomever want to admit it or not--Ice hockey will always be a niche sports is many parts of the US.

Arizona is a f***ing joke and there are a few other places where not all is good. Are teams like the NYR and TO giving money to the poorer teams? Until all teams can stand on their own feet the NHL should not expand

 

[Jets4Life]

It is beyond amazing that True North only paid a comparably smaller fee of $170 million to relocate the Thrashers to Winnipeg just 12 years ago.

 

[Joe from Maine]

NHL isn't worth 2B anywhere. But SLC is the safety valve in case Meruelo can't get anything happening in Phoenix Valley. That won't be a 2B sale.

There are two NHL teams valued at over 2 billion dollars. Toronto and the NY Rangers according to Sportico. It has to be 1 billion for an expansion fee. Right now the average NHL franchise is worth 1 billion dollars. 2 billion makes no financial sense. Even if the national TV media rights deals doubled from 30 million per team currently (Canada and US) to 60 million it would still be around 1B.

 

[adsfan]

Is the NHL worth $2 bill in SLC? I mean, what are the Jazz worth right now given in recent couple of years AZ Suns were valued at $4 billion and the Milwaukee Bucks at $3.5 billion when they were sold. Add in the lower market Hornets as well at $3 billion. AZ with a newly remodeled arena and Mil with a brand new one as well. Cha got a new one when they returned to the NBA.

The Bucks don't own their $524 million arena. They have a 30 year lease as the primary tenant and the operators of Fiserv Forum.

The Wisconsin Center District is the owner. They own the Baird (Convention) Center, the UWM Panther Arena (where the Milwaukee Admirals play hockey) and the 4,000 seat Miller High Life Theatre, all on adjacent blocks. There is an intervening block to the north before you get to the Fiserv Forum.

 

[TheLegend]

It is beyond amazing that True North only paid a comparably smaller fee of $170 million to relocate the Thrashers to Winnipeg just 12 years ago.

Better comparison honestly is the jump from the $500 million Bill Foley paid in 2017 to Oak View Group paying $650 million in 2021. Forbes put the Golden Knights value at $965 million the end of 2022. Tampa Bay is up tp $1.4 billion (per Forbes) This article talks a little about where this is going..

What’s Next For NHL Expansion After Vegas Golden Knights’ Stanley Cup?

After the tremendous success of the Vegas Golden Knights and the Seattle Kraken, more expansion makes sense for the NHL.

www.forbes.com

That said.... three years ago the NBA was looking at a $2.5 billion expansion fee. And some considered that to be too low.

Adam Silver: Rumored $2.5 billion NBA expansion fee 'very low'

It has since been reported the NBA discussed adding two teams—both of which would come with a $2.5 billion expansion fee that would be distributed among the league’s current group of governors. Sil…

hoopshype.com

So it's hard to say where this is all going to go.

 

[TheLegend]

This seems like an attempt to justify a large relocation fee when the Coyotes move.

Or a real reason why they've been allowing Arizona all this time to stay put and sort it all out. Particularly when they now have an owner with some real resources who's been putting up a lot of his own money to make happen.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

got to be one of the stupidest ideas of all time. NHL owners and anyone who likes this idea is just desperate for money or greedy

NHL 32 teams
NBA 30 teams
NFL 32 teams
MLB 30 teams

whether fans, owners, media or whomever want to admit it or not--Ice hockey will always be a niche sports is many parts of the US.

Arizona is a f***ing joke and there are a few other places where not all is good. Are teams like the NYR and TO giving money to the poorer teams? Until all teams can stand on their own feet the NHL should not expand

Why are you so mad NHL is aiming high? If no one is willing to pay 2 billion then they simply won't expand. What is there to be mad about?

 

[Voight]

You'd have to be insane to pay $2bn for an NHL expansion team. Really, any team other than TOR/NYR/MTL/BOS/CHI

 

[StreetHawk]

The Bucks don't own their $524 million arena. They have a 30 year lease as the primary tenant and the operators of Fiserv Forum.

The Wisconsin Center District is the owner. They own the Baird (Convention) Center, the UWM Panther Arena (where the Milwaukee Admirals play hockey) and the 4,000 seat Miller High Life Theatre, all on adjacent blocks. There is an intervening block to the north before you get to the Fiserv Forum.

Most US based teams don't. but, they didn't have to put up the full $524 mill for it and basically have control over the arena as the primary tenant. So, would likely mean that if the owners of the Bucks don't want an NHL club, it would be financially difficult for someone else to own an NHL team in that arena as a secondary tenant.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Why are you so mad NHL is aiming high? If no one is willing to pay 2 billion then they simply won't expand. What is there to be mad about?

not mad---but the nhl is not aiming high--but pure greed. Lets see the value of teams if the rich teams stop play equalization payments. The fact so many team rely on those payments in a problem for me. The NHL does not have a fat TV contract like MLB, NBA or NFL to fall back on. That is why their teams are worth so much. There was an article just prior to covid that layed out how some teams entire business structure is based upon those equalization payments.

Then we got Arizona. Arizona is a joke and embarrassment and the nhl needs to sort that out

 

[jigglysquishy]

If you have no intention to expand you can still quote an insane price so you're not formally ruling it out.

The NFL doesn't want to expand. But if someone wants to pay $10 billion to get a Toronto NFL team it'll happen.

 

[StreetHawk]

If you have no intention to expand you can still quote an insane price so you're not formally ruling it out.

The NFL doesn't want to expand. But if someone wants to pay $5 billion to get a Toronto NFL team it'll happen.

Denver and Washington recently sold for more than $5 billion. So, any future expansion team is going to cost more than that. NFL seems content with the quantity of their teams. Next CBA, fully expect them to try to add game 18.

We know that the NBA will expand in the not too distant future. Seattle will be one. LV likely to be the other one. LeBron seems to want in on the LV one, so maybe the NBA is waiting on him to retire before they announce expansion. NBA price tags are insane based on recent sales of AZ, MIL, CHA of $4 bill, $3.5 bill, and $3 bill.
MLB has been waiting to expand for years, but still have Oakland and TB as current markets that are looking for new stadiums, so delaying for now, ensuring that they maintain some leverage over their current markets to get government money to pay for a new one. (sad, but that's how they operate). Can't recall the last MLB team sale, so it's been a few years. Nothing sold in the 2020's IIRC. So, hard to get a price tag on what they are shooting for.