Draft and Develop

[cbcwpg]

Since "Draft and Develop" seem to be the buzz word these days and seems to be what people are saying you need to do to succeed in the NHL:

Steve Yzerman. “It’s just impossible, even more so with the salary cap, to try to build a team to be successful over a period of time just through free agency and through trades.

Ken Holland, GM of the Detroit Red Wings. “You’ve got to draft. You’ve got to develop.â€

And we know that this is the Jets mantra as well.

***

I found an interactive chart from the summer that shows where all the players who played at least one game in the NHL the 2014-15 season came from. Now these numbers wouldn't include Ehlers for example, but it gives you an idea where each team gets its players.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2015/06/23/to-build-up-to-a-stanley-cup-focus-on-the-draft.html

The Jets:

Total players drafted who played in the NHL this season: 20 ( 29th )
Players on team that drafted them: 10 ( 28th )
Players on different teams than the one that drafted them: 10 ( 26th )

Click to read more...

 

[surixon]

Since "Draft and Develop" seem to be the buzz word these days and seems to be what people are saying you need to do to succeed in the NHL:

Steve Yzerman. “It’s just impossible, even more so with the salary cap, to try to build a team to be successful over a period of time just through free agency and through trades.

Ken Holland, GM of the Detroit Red Wings. “You’ve got to draft. You’ve got to develop.â€

And we know that this is the Jets mantra as well.

***

I found an interactive chart from the summer that shows where all the players who played at least one game in the NHL the 2014-15 season came from. Now these numbers wouldn't include Ehlers for example, but it gives you an idea where each team gets its players.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2015/06/23/to-build-up-to-a-stanley-cup-focus-on-the-draft.html

The Jets:

Total players drafted who played in the NHL this season: 20 ( 29th )
Players on team that drafted them: 10 ( 28th )
Players on different teams than the one that drafted them: 10 ( 26th )

Just goes to show how enept the Atlanta org was at the draft. Still too early in the Jets history to say how they will fair.

 

[cbcwpg]

Just goes to show how enept the Atlanta org was at the draft. Still too early in the Jets history to say how they will fair.

Agreed. We are definitely starting behind the eight-ball with the franchise we brought here. Amazing what a team like Detroit has done.

 

[meedle]

IMO, our drafting is pretty decent but our development sucks.

Petan should have never been with the big club
Lowry, sure he had a decent year last year but sux this year. Should have left him in the AHL for at least another year before he was called up.
Ehlers, should be playing somewhere else. We shall see how it pans out in year 2 or 3 but right now I'm not sure we are doing him any favors.
Scheifele, year 1, it took him a long time to figure it out. He has the attitude and drive and figured it out. You can tell the way he talks, he wants to get better and listens to coaches. Not sure all prospects are like that and most should be left in the AHL til they are ready.
Postma, I honestly would like to see more and imo, never got a real shot. Going to lose him to UFA soon, and still not sure how good he can be since wasn't given the opportunity.
Burmi, yes was brought in at 18, never figured it out, has a decent defensive game but is a black hole for offense. Yes I know not a winnipeg pick but its a good example of why its not a good idea to bring them in too soon.
Copp is doing ok, 4th line role, could have started in the AHL as well.

Personally I would really like more of them to have more time in the AHL I think they are just bringing them in too soon. I really like the Detroit model. Remember when we were talking at the start of the season of how much depth it looked like we had... yeah,.. not so much now. Our 4th line is a bunch of scrubs and you have Thorburn (who has been doing a decent job) on the 3rd line. Basically we have a 2 line team.

 

[WaveRaven]

Draft and Deploy is our strategy.

 

[10Ducky10]

IMO, our drafting is pretty decent but our development sucks.

Petan should have never been with the big club
Lowry, sure he had a decent year last year but sux this year. Should have left him in the AHL for at least another year before he was called up.
Ehlers, should be playing somewhere else. We shall see how it pans out in year 2 or 3 but right now I'm not sure we are doing him any favors.
Scheifele, year 1, it took him a long time to figure it out. He has the attitude and drive and figured it out. You can tell the way he talks, he wants to get better and listens to coaches. Not sure all prospects are like that and most should be left in the AHL til they are ready.
Postma, I honestly would like to see more and imo, never got a real shot. Going to lose him to UFA soon, and still not sure how good he can be since wasn't given the opportunity.
Burmi, yes was brought in at 18, never figured it out, has a decent defensive game but is a black hole for offense. Yes I know not a winnipeg pick but its a good example of why its not a good idea to bring them in too soon.
Copp is doing ok, 4th line role, could have started in the AHL as well.

Personally I would really like more of them to have more time in the AHL I think they are just bringing them in too soon. I really like the Detroit model. Remember when we were talking at the start of the season of how much depth it looked like we had... yeah,.. not so much now. Our 4th line is a bunch of scrubs and you have Thorburn (who has been doing a decent job) on the 3rd line. Basically we have a 2 line team.

I'm not sure if I have ever agreed more with anything I have read on here.
Ehlers is a different situation but Copp, Petan should have started with the Moose. So should Peluso. If we re-sign Stemp and some one like Glencross and/or Winnik, the youngsters get time on the farm. Developing isn't bringing them in at 19 or 20 unless they are very ready. I thought Ehlers was but he wasn't. Too bad he couldn't be sent to the Moose. Lowry would have benefited, in the long term, to at least another half season on the farm.
Burmi is a good 4th line center. Stemp would look better on the 3rd line. Lowry should be a winger on the 4th or centering the 4th this year as a rookie.

 

[White Out 403*]

Draft and develop sounds lovely. It also gives you, as a GM, built in excuses. "its a process" "cant win over night".

D&D only works when the other parts of your organization are also working and doing their jobs. Making terrible decisions as a GM and being told who to draft by good scouts is a sure fire recipe for the kind of mediocre hockey club we're enduring right now.

This is year 5. Not year 2. This team has been mired in mediocrity since landing from Georgia.

 

[ATLbound]

You can't win on draft and develop alone. Just as you can't win on Free agency and trades alone. It all needs to be together. Think about trying to get better then 29 other teams/ gm's, you think you can get into that top 5 tier by draft and develop (something every single team tries to do) You have to out draft most of the GM's in the league and hope 18 year old kids live up to potential. Its not good enough. Look at Nill in Dallas and how quick he turned a mediocre team around. Some decent drafting, smart and timely trades. And a few free agent signings.

 

[Daximus]

You can't win on draft and develop alone. Just as you can't win on Free agency and trades alone. It all needs to be together. Think about trying to get better then 29 other teams/ gm's, you think you can get into that top 5 tier by draft and develop (something every single team tries to do) You have to out draft most of the GM's in the league and hope 18 year old kids live up to potential. Its not good enough. Look at Nill in Dallas and how quick he turned a mediocre team around. Some decent drafting, smart and timely trades. And a few free agent signings.

Nill got so ****ing lucky though it's not even funny.
Basically being gifted Tyler Seguin on a silver platter and managing to find two gems in the back end of the draft in Benn and Klingberg.
The odds of that happening for any GM are slim to none.
The last team to get that lucky through drafting was Detroit and that is a few years short of two decades ago...

 

[Aavco Cup]

Nill got so ****ing lucky though it's not even funny.
Basically being gifted Tyler Seguin on a silver platter and managing to find two gems in the back end of the draft in Benn and Klingberg.
The odds of that happening for any GM are slim to none.
The last team to get that lucky through drafting was Detroit and that is a few years short of two decades ago...

Benn was drafted in 2007. Klingberg in 2010. Nill had nothing to do with either of them

 

[sipowicz]

Draft, Pray and Hope!

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Steve Yzerman. “It’s just impossible, even more so with the salary cap, to try to build a team to be successful over a period of time just through free agency and through trades.

The converse is also true. It's impossible to build a team just through drafting and developing players.

Draft and Deploy is our strategy.

Looking like it.

I'm also surprised to see no mentions of Chiarot in this thread, who IMO is the embodiment of what's wrong with how this team is currently being run.

1. Long thought of as a fringe prospect, comes into 2014-15 10th or 11th on the depth chart after a brutal preseason
2. Gets thrown into action because of injury, hey whaddaya know, he's not embarassing himself!
3. Hey wait a second, he may actually be a legitimate NHL player!
4. Closer analysis of his play leads to a pretty easy conclusion: he's a 6th/7th defenseman looking legitimate because he has found an ideal partner in Buff
5. 2015-16 rolls around. Problem at LHD? Nah man, we got Chiarot!

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I'm also surprised to see no mentions of Chiarot in this thread, who IMO is the embodiment of what's wrong with how this team is currently being run.

-long thought of as a fringe prospect, comes into 2014-15 10th or 11th on the depth chart after a brutal preseason
-gets thrown into action, hey whaddaya know, he's not embarassing himself!
-closer analysis of his play leads to a pretty easy conclusion: he's a 6th/7th defenseman looking legitimate because he has found an ideal partner in Buff
-2015-16 rolls around. Problem at LHD? Nah man, we got Chiarot!

So true. I never jumped on the Clitsome or Chiarot hype train...both fringe players that were disguised by playing with a Top 15 D-man. Speaking of not having a clue when it comes to evaluating your own players, the previously mentioned Top 15 D-man was moved up to 3rd line winger last year because this org has long held the belief that defense and not goaltending is our biggest problem. Could you imagine Ottawa moving Karlsson or the Habs moving Subban to the 3rd line? how many people would be fired if that happened?

Buff playing in front of .920 goaltending? Norris defenceman! Buff playing in front of .900? Huge liability, hide him up front.

We need better goaltending to assess defence (except Stuart, because he's garbage either way).

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Atlanta's drafting was horrid, and likely a major factor why we are where we are. From 2004-2010, there are only 6 ATL draft picks that have played 100 games or more: Bogosian, Kane, Burmistrov, Little, Pavelec and Postma. With the exception of Little, none of these are even first line players, and our pool of prospects was pretty much empty when the team got here.

This is the saddest list I've ever seen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlanta_Thrashers_draft_picks

 

[White Out 403*]

Atlanta's drafting was horrid, and likely a major factor why we are where we are. From 2004-2010, there are only 6 ATL draft picks that have played 100 games or more: Bogosian, Kane, Burmistrov, Little, Pavelec and Postma. With the exception of Little, none of these are even first line players, and our pool of prospects was pretty much empty when the team got here.

This is the saddest list I've ever seen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlanta_Thrashers_draft_picks

Serious question. How long do we have to wait until we can blame Chevy and not blame Atlanta management? 5 years? 6? 7?

A second honest and legit question I have is then how do we grade Chevy? How long does he have to make this team a consistent playoff team? Otherwise how else do you judge him?

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Considering teams like Dallas got almost all of their good players from draft picks or trading the players they drafted, it matters. I'd say the window is 3 more years that drafting can be used as a partial explanation, but it doesn't excuse mediocrity by letting players walk or not signing UFAs.

 

[KingBogo]

Atlanta's drafting was horrid, and likely a major factor why we are where we are. From 2004-2010, there are only 6 ATL draft picks that have played 100 games or more: Bogosian, Kane, Burmistrov, Little, Pavelec and Postma. With the exception of Little, none of these are even first line players, and our pool of prospects was pretty much empty when the team got here.

This is the saddest list I've ever seen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlanta_Thrashers_draft_picks

That was the biggest hole when TNSE purchased the team. They were amazingly barren in the prospect cupboard. Almost an inconceivably bad prospect pool. Which was strange is they had just recently sold off their expensive UFA's without accumulating anything for the future.

 

[Whileee]

Serious question. How long do we have to wait until we can blame Chevy and not blame Atlanta management? 5 years? 6? 7?

A second honest and legit question I have is then how do we grade Chevy? How long does he have to make this team a consistent playoff team? Otherwise how else do you judge him?

The Jets could have trade young players and picks to become a playoff contender more quickly, but that would have just led to long-term mediocrity. There really aren't shortcuts and if you are starting with nothing in your youth, it will take time to build. If anything, the Jets should have taken some bigger steps backward by trading some of their older core for picks / prospects. The danger is that you get into the Oilers' syndrome by having a bunch of top prospects coming to a lousy team with no leadership.

We are also losing sight of the fact that the Jets would likely be a clear playoff contender this season in any division other than the Central.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Atlanta's drafting was horrid, and likely a major factor why we are where we are. From 2004-2010, there are only 6 ATL draft picks that have played 100 games or more: Bogosian, Kane, Burmistrov, Little, Pavelec and Postma. With the exception of Little, none of these are even first line players, and our pool of prospects was pretty much empty when the team got here.

This is the saddest list I've ever seen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlanta_Thrashers_draft_picks

That horrid drafting was completely washed away by Rick Dudley in 2009 by acquiring Ladd, Wheeler and Buff for Rich Peverley, a late 1st, a 2nd and a bunch of random junk playing Ithe KHL or Europe.

Here's who we inherited in 2011:

Blake Wheeler (24), last year of ELC
Bryan Little (23), last year of ELC
Andrew Ladd (24), RFA 1st year coming off ELC
Dustin Byfuglien (25), 5 year contract
Toby Enstrom (26) 2 year contract
Zack Bogosian (21), ELC
Evander Kane (20), ELC
Alex Burmistrov (19) ELC
Mark Scheifele (18) ELC

To summarize, that's a top forward line under 25 years old, a 20 yr old power forward who went on to score 30 goals, a top pairing d (25/26) and a young 21 year old stud defenseman. In addition, we had a 3rd line center in his sophomore season and the 7th overall pick in the system.

This was not an expansion team. Just because we chose to surround that core with complete junk off the waiver wire, enforcers, cheap plugs and the worst starting goaltender in the league does not change what we inherited' poor drafting included.

 

[KingBogo]

That horrid drafting was completely washed away by Rick Dudley in 2009 by acquiring Ladd, Wheeler and Buff for Rich Peverley, a late 1st, a 2nd and a bunch of random junk playing Ithe KHL or Europe.

Here's who we inherited in 2011:

Blake Wheeler (24), last year of ELC
Bryan Little (23), last year of ELC
Andrew Ladd (24), RFA 1st year coming off ELC
Dustin Byfuglien (25), 5 year contract
Toby Enstrom (26) 2 year contract
Zack Bogosian (21), ELC
Evander Kane (20), ELC
Alex Burmistrov (19) ELC
Mark Scheifele (18) ELC

To summarize, that's a top forward line under 25 years old, a 20 yr old power forward who went on to score 30 goals, a top pairing d (25/26) and a young 21 year old stud defenseman. In addition, we had a 3rd line center in his sophomore season and the 7th overall pick in the system.

This was not an expansion team. Just because we chose to surround that core with complete junk off the waiver wire, enforcers, cheap plugs and the worst starting goaltender in the league does not change what we inherited' poor drafting included.

That is bad. And Scheifele wasn't even part of the organization in May 2011. You had 1/3 of a team and none of them elite. We have kept most of which had value, problem is it takes a while to accumulate enough talent to contend.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

That is bad. And Scheifele wasn't even part of the organization in May 2011. You had 1/3 of a team and none of them elite. We have kept most of which had value, problem is it takes a while to accumulate enough talent to contend.

Bad? Go find me a team with a better group of players between 18-25 in 2011, including prospects. I bet that's top 5 in the NHL. Definitely top 10.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Bad? Go find me a team with a better group of players between 18-25 in 2011, including prospects. I bet that's top 5 in the NHL. Definitely top 10.

Right, but the rest of the team was terrible. Beyond that, we had:

Pavelec
Mason
Wellwood
Antropov
Slater
Stuart
Thorburn
Stapleton
Miettinen
Glass
Flood
Fehr
Oduya
Jones
Machachek
Clitsome -
Hainsey
...and then a list of literal nobodies that didn't even play 10 games.

With the exception of Fehr, Hainsey and Oduya, these players weren't in the NHL after their contracts ended (pending Stuart, Thorburn, Pavelec who aren't good by any means). The core was good, the periphery was trash.

 

[truck]

Every team drafts and develops - some Winnipeggers just like to act like it is unique to us and our team.

 

[blues10]

We are more of a D&G than D&D franchise.

Draft and Gift roster spots to unproven players at the pro level. Thanks Chevy the process of the process is working fantastic.

 

[Daximus]

Benn was drafted in 2007. Klingberg in 2010. Nill had nothing to do with either of them

Exactly