DPE 2.0 worse than the original?

[daver]

The DPE had seven seasons in a row from 97/98 to 03/04 where the league GPG was below 2.80. This obviously affected the number of 100 point/PPG players and the point totals for the Art Ross winners; all of which created somewhat of a "weak" feel i.e. a lack of star/superstar talent for that era; most notably from 01/02 to 03/04 where only Forsberg was really able to hit "superstar" numbers in 01/02 and 03/04.

The average league GPG was 2.66. The total # of PPG players (min. 40 games) from '97 to '04 was 120 or 17 per season. The lowest of 10 was hit twice (01/02 and 03/04).

DPE 2.0 had seven seasons in a row from 2009/10 to 2016/17 (2013 is not included) where the league GPG was below 2.80. There is also a "weak" feel to this era but was it worse than the original?

The average league GPG was 2.74. The total # of PPG players (min. 40 games) from '10 to '17 was 80 or 11 per season. The lowest of 8 was hit three time (from 14/15 to 16/17).

There is an obvious difference and it is made larger by the fact that there were 2 to 3 more teams in the league during DPE 2.0.

The obvious explanation for the difference is the PP opportunities. The DPE has an average of 4.37 PPOs per game while the DPE 2.0 had an average of 3.28

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[Gorskyontario]

It was certainly more boring. DPE 1 was at least tough hockey with good physicality, plenty of good playoff series every year.

 

[JianYang]

It's interesting how you define the end of dpe 2.0 as 2016/2017. That was the year where Crosby slashed methot's fingertip off.

I've referred to that as one of the major turning points in the increase in goals, because the league really started cracking down on hacks and whacks to the gloves thereafter.

I agree with the poster above me that dpe 1.0 was better for the reasons he cited, but it wasn't without its frustrations either. If a team started the 3rd period with a lead, you were far too certain of the eventual outcome in many cases.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I agree that DPE 2.0 was worse than the original. For me it's the most boring era of hockey I've witnessed.

I'm not sure anyone said, "man, I love hockey today; it's better than ever!" during the Dead Puck Era itself. I think the nostalgia for that era started after Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin had been around for a while.

During the original DPE, an 85 point season was an elite offensive season some years. The leading point totals weren't sexy and there was nostalgia for the 80s and the higher-scoring years of the past.

However, there was a lot of good talent in the League and superstars scored at high rates relative to the League-wide GPG rate, benefiting from an abundance of PP opportunities. There were also many flashy superstars and guys who shone at particular things (Bure and Selanne were fast and explosive), Lindros was a punishing physical presence with a high skill level, guys like Forsberg and Jagr were dominant players who routinely made highlight reel players. You had amazing skaters like Fedorov and Modano, great shooters like Hull, Shanahan and Iginla and underrated superstars like Palffy and Demitra.

Because of the style of play, players like Kariya, Bure, Lindros, Turgeon and many others couldn't fulfill their potential. Mats Sundin was one of the most statistically dominant players of the era. He wasn't particularly flashy, nor did he stand out for one skill. But he was a f***ing horse who couldn't be stopped from putting up points year after year.

The younger generation listened to all the hype and talk about the evolution of the game and why guys like Crosby and Ovechkin were the best to ever play, but many from the previous generation started longing for the stars they had grown up watching.

Now it seems a lot of the post 2005 Lockout era fans are rejecting arguments that McDavid's generation is the best and complaining that the game is too soft these days, top players score too much etc.

I guess one's favorite era and the one they're the most emotionally invested in is always the best.

 

[daver]

Since 17/18, the league GPG has been above 2.90:

The average league GPG was 3.05. The total # of PPG players (min. 40 games) from '18 to '24 was 214 or 31 per season. The low is 21 in 19/20 and the high is 44 in 21/22.

PPOs have been pretty consistent since 14/15 within range of 2.89 (in 20/21) to 3.11 (15/16) so that is not the reason for the increase in scoring. Sv% has been going down since 15/16.

 

[GlitchMarner]

There's just more skill and more of an emphasis on maximizing it.

Goaltending equipment is smaller. Teams don't sit back and trap for entire periods when they have a one goal lead. Players are not constantly held or obstructed.

Under this playing style, I think the scoring during the original Dead Puck Era could have been similar to what it is today. There would have been fewer injuries to top stars as well.

I'm not sure you can say the same about that '10/11 to '17 era. Would guys like Staal and Seguin really have lit the League on fire? I'm not so sure.

 

[VanIslander]

Because of the style of play, players like Kariya, Bure, Lindros, Turgeon and many others couldn't fulfill their potential. Mats Sundin was one of the most statistically dominant players of the era. He wasn't particularly flashy, nor did he stand out for one skill. But he was a f***ing horse who couldn't be stopped from putting up points year after year.

I went to several games during my 1 year in T.O. (exactly across the street from where Hemingway lived - i was there when Lady Di died in the tunnel crash, one of my wife and I's last moments). I will be 55 in about two weeks.

What i noticed was Sundin & Belfour were the best players on the ice. I was there. I saw it. It was clear!

I am glad i ain't a Leafs fan, cuz to see Sundin's talent wasted on lesser teammates ,... consistently.... he never the problem... ugh....

 

[WarriorofTime]

Less hooking, holding, cheap shots to prematurely end careers. More defensive structures that were too conservative about activating defensemen, encouraging every forward to have a good two-way game, strong goaltending with good technique and pads that were too big.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I went to several games during my 1 year in T.O. (exactly across the street from where Hemingway lived - i was there when Lady Di died in the tunnel crash, one of my wife and I's last moments). I will be 55 in about two weeks.

What i noticed was Sundin & Belfour were the best players on the ice. I was there. I saw it. It was clear!

I am glad i ain't a Leafs fan, cuz to see Sundin's talent wasted on lesser teammates ,... consistently.... he never the problem... ugh....

Sundin didn't slow down much if at all after the Lockout, either. He was a top 20 scorer in '07-'08 (in the so-called "New NHL").

 

[MadLuke]

The average league GPG was 2.74.

From 2010 to 2017, there was 50,282 goals scored, 18,660 teams-game played for 2.695 goal per games (hockey reference add game winning shutout goals in their league average, making the second dpe look less worst than it was by a little bit)

From 98 to 2004, looking only at teams that played all the games (to not give more weights to the season with more teams) it was also 2.691 goal per games, exactly the same, maybe we were more used too but the second one has as low scoring it seem and with less PP to boost the top unit players at the same time, depressing even more top scorers.

worst or better, depends how your own team did (MTL during the first dpe was atrocious and without the lucky deep run), your age and so on.

At least the first DPE had Wings vs Avs, Dallas vs Oilers series

 

[Hobnobs]

DPE 2.0 is when hockey dropped further down on the list of sports I watch. It was the most boring sh*t Ive ever witnessed...

 

[Overrated]

I don't get the obsession with GPG. I don't think the game is automatically more exciting and fun to watch if there is more scoring. I think this thinking comes from the explosion of basketball in terms of popularity. Slow pace sports like baseball, soccer or boxing have proven games can easily be (and historically have been more popular) extremely popular while having a slower pace.

What makes hockey shittier is imo the NHL
a) boycotting international hockey
b) having a salary cap
c) having a draft

 

[Gorskyontario]

I don't get the obsession with GPG. I don't think the game is automatically more exciting and fun to watch if there is more scoring. I think this thinking comes from the explosion of basketball in terms of popularity. Slow pace sports like baseball, soccer or boxing have proven games can easily be (and historically have been more popular) extremely popular while having a slower pace.

What makes hockey shittier is imo the NHL
a) boycotting international hockey
b) having a salary cap
c) having a draft

Boxing has been in decline since the 80s, and basically dead since the 00's(boxing was at one point the number 1 sport in the USA).

Baseball is mostly watched by old people, or people go to games to get drunk(since the tickets are super cheap for most teams for most games).

 

[Hobnobs]

Boxing has been in decline since the 80s, and basically dead since the 00's(boxing was at one point the number 1 sport in the USA).

Baseball is mostly watched by old people, or people go to games to get drunk(since the tickets are super cheap for most teams for most games).

No. MLB interest by age US 2023 | Statista

And boxing "died" because of corruption and fixed matches.

 

[daver]

From 2010 to 2017, there was 50,282 goals scored, 18,660 teams-game played for 2.695 goal per games (hockey reference add game winning shutout goals in their league average, making the second dpe look less worst than it was by a little bit)

From 98 to 2004, looking only at teams that played all the games (to not give more weights to the season with more teams) it was also 2.691 goal per games, exactly the same, maybe we were more used too but the second one has as low scoring it seem and with less PP to boost the top unit players at the same time, depressing even more top scorers.

worst or better, depends how your own team did (MTL during the first dpe was atrocious and without the lucky deep run), your age and so on.

At least the first DPE had Wings vs Avs, Dallas vs Oilers series

By worse, I mean the top scorers point totals during the DPE 2.0 took a larger drop than they did for the top scorers in the DPE primarily due to less PP opportunities. ES scoring by the league star players stayed pretty consistent from 1997 to 2017.

The jump in scoring since 2017 has been primarily due to a rise in ES scoring.

I would argue that the lower scoring levels brings more parity to the upper level scoring where Top 20ish forwards can sneak into the Top 5 if they get on a hot streak at the right time which creates a sense of relative season/era mediocrity. I think DPE 2.0 was even worse than the DPE with the lower PP points which can be a bit more of a specialized talent.

 

[daver]

Under this playing style, I think the scoring during the original Dead Puck Era could have been similar to what it is today. There would have been fewer injuries to top stars as well.

I'm not sure you can say the same about that '10/11 to '17 era. Would guys like Staal and Seguin really have lit the League on fire? I'm not so sure.

Not sure why Staal and Seguin are viewed as being among the best DPE 2.0 top stars.

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They were 26th and 30th in PPG.

I don't see why we wouldn't view players like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane, or Stamkos putting up numbers similar to today.

 

[Gorskyontario]

No. MLB interest by age US 2023 | Statista

And boxing "died" because of corruption and fixed matches.

Boxing died because the Klitschkos fought like old ladies.

Maybe I am wrong about baseball but I'm not sure I believe that. 99% of young or people my age agree that it's the most boring sport.

 

[Hobnobs]

Boxing died because the Klitschkos fought like old ladies.

Maybe I am wrong about baseball but I'm not sure I believe that. 99% of young or people my age agree that it's the most boring sport.

Apparently they don't even if you use a made up percentage.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I think this is a thinly veiled Crosby prop-up thread but both low scoring eras sucked. IMO for different reasons though.

In the late 90s to the lockout it was all the hooking, interference, head shots, plywood in the goaltender equipment etc. In the most recent downward trend it was a lull in top level talent compared to before and after, and goaltenders being selected for size along with their equipment. It is no surprise that scoring has gone back up with the latest restriction on goalie equipment, new officiating standard, and a new crop of stars players that include what appears to be a true generational player in McDavid.

 

[sr edler]

I was never much of a boxing fan but enjoyed Olympic boxing more than straight up pro boxing because even with the headgear it was still lighter, quicker and more fluid and you didn't have to see corrupt phonies like Don King at the sidelines.

 

[Sinter Klaas]

DPE 1.0 had excellent hall-of-fame goaltenders, many generational hall-of-fame forwards and defensemen, as well physical play including lots of entertaining fights and hits. Even though the final score might be 2-1, I could tune into a game and expect to be glued to my seat.

DPE 2.0 while still relatively more recent in memory and thus its hall-of-fame is incomplete, it will most certainly have less excellent goaltenders, and virtually no physical play and fights. It was as humdrum in style of play as you can get.

Don't get me wrong, I am not nostalgic for the DPE at anytime because it killed the style of play in my favorite sport, but DPE 1.0 is far superior.