Dougie Hamilton has Ruined the Calgary Flames

[nbwingsfan]

Agreed, with you I have been a Bruin's fan since before Orr, do not miss Seguin at all. Yes he can score, there are just to many Universities around the Boston area to keep him interested in hockey. If a guy cannot keep it in his pants while the playoffs are going on and can only manage one goal in four series, when he is considered a sniper, he needed to pack his bags. For all the skill he has, he sure was immature during his Bruin days, well documented. Looks like he may be turning it around, but will wait to see how long it last.

You don't miss a guy who might lead the league in points at 23? Come on..

Are there no universities/young people in Dallas or is that just Boston? How many young, attractive, rich and famous young people do you see "keeping it in their pants" at 20/21? I know I sure didn't and I was just young!

There is a thing called maturity and someone like Seguin should 100% be given another chance. Lets say for example McDavid starts partying at 19 and has a poor playoffs, should EDM trade him for an underpayment?

You just don't give up elite young talents before you give them quite a few chances. There a bunch of other ways to handle it first.

Now, do I think Seguin would be the offensive force he is now if he stayed in Boston? Absolutely not. But I think he would easily be a 70ish point C.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I can't and won't speak for all Bruin fans but I would do this trade again without thinking twice about it.

It will take a few years to see if the picks we received pan out but boy its looking scary good so far.

Well it's also been 12ish games in his first season on a new team.

"So far" is a minuscule sample size for these new Bruins prospects.

 

[Volica]

I think right now, yes anyone would do that trade still. But if he continues regressing and becomes Franson 2.0 by the end of the season then its a overpayment, considering what Franson was had for when he was still young and promising

But what continuous regression? Over the past 5 games he's been steadily improving from the first 8. I wouldn't worry about it too much; there's too much pedigree and the right ability (big and fast) for there to be too much concern. It's like last year being an Oiler fan; not a single 1st overall on the team breaks 60 points, but you know the talent is there to get more out of them, and you know certain factors will not be repeated going forward (in their case, a lot of injury, in Hamilton's case, a new team with horrible goaltending).

But is that overpayment? Franson on a down season still garnered a 1st, a decent prospect and a cap dump; so Calgary payed a first and two seconds? That's still not an overpayment. For Hamilton to get to Franson levels, he'd also have to forget how to skate.

Overall there's just too much there to be worried. Most Defencemen don't even see the light of day (NHL) until they're 22 or over; forget playing top minutes and then top minutes on a new team.

 

[b in vancouver]

In context to this thread - The Flames moved players like Martin St. Louis, Brett Hull and Marc Savard when they were pups - so I find it a bit funny that in this thread, of all places, a few posters will talk about the Bruins moving young talent.

Boston, like Montreal, has a long tradition of building around players who want to wear the sweater and know what it means to don it. I'm glad Seguin's tearing it up, that Kessel gets to play with Crosby and Malkin, that Wheeler is leading the Jets, and hope Hamilton turns into a true #1 d-man. But out of these players, the only one that bugs losing (although I understand why) is Wheeler. He could've signed with any team in the league and with twenty of them he would've been guaranteed a spot but he signed with Boston which at the time had a lot of forward depth, worked really hard, and forced his way onto the team. I'll always respect that.

p.s. glad to hear Dougie played his best game for you guys.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

You don't miss a guy who might lead the league in points at 23? Come on..

Are there no universities/young people in Dallas or is that just Boston? How many young, attractive, rich and famous young people do you see "keeping it in their pants" at 20/21? I know I sure didn't and I was just young!

There is a thing called maturity and someone like Seguin should 100% be given another chance. Lets say for example McDavid starts partying at 19 and has a poor playoffs, should EDM trade him for an underpayment?

You just don't give up elite young talents before you give them quite a few chances. There a bunch of other ways to handle it first.

Now, do I think Seguin would be the offensive force he is now if he stayed in Boston? Absolutely not. But I think he would easily be a 70ish point C.

If you thought Seguin would easily be a 70ish point center and you "didnt know hed be a force," how was it underpayment? Erikkson was a year away from being a 70 point winger with the stars, and we added Morrow in the deal as well (1st round pick).

The only way this deal ended up a big failure was if Seguin turned into that elite #1 franchise center, and boy did that happen

 

[nbwingsfan]

If you thought Seguin would easily be a 70ish point center and you "didnt know hed be a force," how was it underpayment? Erikkson was a year away from being a 70 point winger with the stars, and we added Morrow in the deal as well (1st round pick).

The only way this deal ended up a big failure was if Seguin turned into that elite #1 franchise center, and boy did that happen

I think most people knew Eriksson wasn't going to be a 70pt player in Boston.

You don't think that if Seguin even just ended up being a 70pt #1C for Dallas for the next 10+ years that it wouldn't be a failure on Boston's part?

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

I think most people knew Eriksson wasn't going to be a 70pt player in Boston.

You don't think that if Seguin even just ended up being a 70pt #1C for Dallas for the next 10+ years that it wouldn't be a failure on Boston's part?

And everyone knew that Seguin wouldnt have been a 90+ point center in Boston as well. Bergy/Krejci werent being moved and Seguin wouldnt have gotten that chance, that plays in as well. And what if Morrow turns into a top four defenseman? A top six winger and a top four D man for a 70 point center is an easier sell than what he have currently

If Erikkson performed like he was expected to and Seguin didnt reach his max potential (say 70+ point center for 10 years) like he has the deal would look much much closer. Fact is Erikkson underperformed and Seguin is a franchise center, so the deal is horrible.

 

[PsychoDad]

If you thought Seguin would easily be a 70ish point center and you "didnt know hed be a force," how was it underpayment? Erikkson was a year away from being a 70 point winger with the stars, and we added Morrow in the deal as well (1st round pick).

The only way this deal ended up a big failure was if Seguin turned into that elite #1 franchise center, and boy did that happen

Don't forget Hayes (flipped for Smith), also the result of the trade.

 

[Volica]

For those actually wondering about Dougie, rather than the Days of Future Past of the Bruins, he played in the top 4 for Calgary tonight and arguably had his best game as a Flame so far. He was strong defensively, his offensive instincts were great, he was even a little physical and unlike games previously, seemed confident with the puck.

He didn't register a point, but had a good shot on net, and missed one blast near side (unfortunately that wrapped around and was down the ice before you know it). I think he's starting to find his groove.

 

[Reinhart]

Sorry for busting your balls but on this planet Boston is still clearly in better shape than Calgary, completely ignoring this seasons disaster so far too, and it would be even more lopsided with Hamilton still on Bruins roster. You can make a vote about that and check the opinions across the board.

Your locker room comment also makes zero sense - I explicitly stated that there were NO known issues with Bruins locker room in general or Hamilton in particular in this regard, and you are trying to argue that by saying the same?

So your "simplest explanation" was Hamilton thinking - damn boy, I'm not gonna win anything with this ****hole franchise, coming off a presidents trophy, two SC finals and a cup in last 5 years, I will not even consider their contract offers at all, but Flames, man, now that's a place to be, now this is the team I think about when we talking stanley cups and all. And not - oh, nice, they have Brodie and Giordano in place in front of me till I hit my prime in 5 years, I'm gonna be sheltered for all this time, maybe boost my stats while not showing my defensive lapses, and hit a nice big contract when it's over. Whatever, man.

What a bunch of #%$&. Talk about fiction. The obvious has been written to death. He wanted out and got it. Calgary thought they fleeced the Bruins. Well, things haven't worked out for one. Glad he's out. If you don't want to play there, it's best you leave. I see it's working out for the Flames.

Wow, hilarious responses here.

Ok, my reasons were labeled as FICTION. Yet, I get called out for them being BS? Funny... I guess I will label everything as "BS" from now on when I am trying to illustrate (paint? show?) a point.

The entire point was that the poster who I quoted was mixing some truths with complete speculation and passing it off like it was some sure thing as to why Hamilton chose to leave Boston. My post was just to illustrate how it could be construed as the complete opposite, and that it was just as likely to be right (or wrong) as his thoughts - only they were actually labeled as FICTION (BS, as per your vocabulary there).

BOTH reasons were complete horse%%%%, but only mine was labeled for what it was - fiction (and yet still get called on it for being BS? hahaha hilarious indeed! still giggling and shaking my head here).

As for the "Boston is better than Calgary" thing - yeah, so? Who cares? My point still stands. Just go through your own forum through the end of the season and leading up to the Hamilton trade. Lots of 'doom and gloom' all around as to the immediate future success of the Bruins. Just because Boston came out of the gate well and Calgary is having a huge hiccup right now, doesn't change the fact that things were trending up for Calgary after last season, and trending down for Boston after last season. You know - LAST SEASON, where Dougie Hamilton MAYBE based his decision on coming to Calgary IF HYPOTHETICALLY that was (part of) his rationale for leaving Boston.

Point is, you guys know exactly the same information I know as to why Hamilton decided to spurn Boston in favor of another team - absolutely NOTHING. Only I am not trying to insinuate that I know the answers, and spinning a good yarn about it and passing it off like it is some well-known and confirmed rationale.

 

[PsychoDad]

Point is, you guys know exactly the same information I know as to why Hamilton decided to spurn Boston in favor of another team - absolutely NOTHING. Only I am not trying to insinuate that I know the answers, and spinning a good yarn about it and passing it off like it is some well-known and confirmed rationale.

You use a common deceptive argumentation tactics to invalidate other opinions by presenting some asinine made up BS as a symmetrical counter piece so you can say - just because I wrote something stupid it means that everything else written about it is also stupid, just from the different prospective.
But it doesn't work that way.

Off course nobody knows EXACTLY what really went on there. But guess what, you don't know exactly pretty much anything about anything. You are on a hockey board and let me tell you - you don't really know **** about hockey, about what is going on every game, which player is better than another in a vacuum, who is a better coach, a better goalie - nobody is ever in the same situation, circumstances differ. You don't know, I don't know. We discuss and speculate. If an opinion has good reasoning behind it - it holds more weight, but it doesn't make it an ultimate truth. The only thing you do know - the score. Anything else is up to debate.

So if we collect the facts and observations about Hamiltons departure, take past cases in consideration - the more obvious reasoning would be to compare the situations for Hamilton for the duration of the contract with both teams, because the contracts would be the same. One team plays in a tough market with high expectations and you will be demanded to take the heavy load and be a number 1d, and you have just proven that you are clearly not ready for that role when it mattered. So your next years might be ugly. On the other side there is a team where you are guaranteed to be sheltered behind Giordano and Brodie for pretty much your complete contract, you can deliver good offensive numbers while not playing against the top lines so you can hide your defensive problems, maybe grow slowly in this department and hit the homerun when the contract is up. And this team will even trade for your talentless little brother just for you to feel loved. So while this is not a FACT - and nobody mentioned it - this is the story the logic dictates. But you off course can think that he just likes the marvelous landscapes of the great city of Calgary and thinks this is where the cup goes in the next years of all the upswinging teams out there and keep dreaming of having just as legit of an argument there to prove your story.

 

[BruinsBtn]

You use a common deceptive argumentation tactics to invalidate other opinions by presenting some asinine made up BS as a symmetrical counter piece so you can say - just because I wrote something stupid it means that everything else written about it is also stupid, just from the different prospective.
But it doesn't work that way.

Off course nobody knows EXACTLY what really went on there. But guess what, you don't know exactly pretty much anything about anything. You are on a hockey board and let me tell you - you don't really know **** about hockey, about what is going on every game, which player is better than another in a vacuum, who is a better coach, a better goalie - nobody is ever in the same situation, circumstances differ. You don't know, I don't know. We discuss and speculate. If an opinion has good reasoning behind it - it holds more weight, but it doesn't make it an ultimate truth. The only thing you do know - the score. Anything else is up to debate.

So if we collect the facts and observations about Hamiltons departure, take past cases in consideration - the more obvious reasoning would be to compare the situations for Hamilton for the duration of the contract with both teams, because the contracts would be the same. One team plays in a tough market with high expectations and you will be demanded to take the heavy load and be a number 1d, and you have just proven that you are clearly not ready for that role when it mattered. So your next years might be ugly. On the other side there is a team where you are guaranteed to be sheltered behind Giordano and Brodie for pretty much your complete contract, you can deliver good offensive numbers while not playing against the top lines so you can hide your defensive problems, maybe grow slowly in this department and hit the homerun when the contract is up. And this team will even trade for your talentless little brother just for you to feel loved. So while this is not a FACT - and nobody mentioned it - this is the story the logic dictates. But you off course can think that he just likes the marvelous landscapes of the great city of Calgary and thinks this is where the cup goes in the next years of all the upswinging teams out there and keep dreaming of having just as legit of an argument there to prove your story.

He didn't pick Calgary, he was traded there.

 

[PsychoDad]

He didn't pick Calgary, he was traded there.

He signed a long-term contract 4 days after the trade, 2 days before free agency started where he could've been offer sheeted. It was just as much his choice to sign with them as to not sign with the Bruins.

 

[saillias]

This thread won't die. You guys are still writing essays on Dougie & the Bruins in November?

"Well good sir it's important to understand no one can know exactly what happened in the Bruins dressing room and the contract negotiations and frankly Dougie has a long way to go to reach top pairing status in this league and to be quite honest Senyshin and Debrusk are important prospects for us going forward and let's be clear had Seguin stayed in the Boston org he would have never..."

 

[BruinLVGA]

This thread won't die. You guys are still writing essays on Dougie & the Bruins in November?

"Well good sir it's important to understand no one can know exactly what happened in the Bruins dressing room and the contract negotiations and frankly Dougie has a long way to go to reach top pairing status in this league and to be quite honest Senyshin and Debrusk are important prospects for us going forward and let's be clear had Seguin stayed in the Boston org he would have never..."

If you do want this thread to die, why on earth are you posting in it?
#logicisnotmyforte

 

[topshelf15]

Forward depth ,is the flame,s problem.They arent on the same level as their defense

 

[wintersej]

You don't miss a guy who might lead the league in points at 23? Come on..

Are there no universities/young people in Dallas or is that just Boston? How many young, attractive, rich and famous young people do you see "keeping it in their pants" at 20/21? I know I sure didn't and I was just young!

There is a thing called maturity and someone like Seguin should 100% be given another chance. Lets say for example McDavid starts partying at 19 and has a poor playoffs, should EDM trade him for an underpayment?

You just don't give up elite young talents before you give them quite a few chances. There a bunch of other ways to handle it first.

Now, do I think Seguin would be the offensive force he is now if he stayed in Boston? Absolutely not. But I think he would easily be a 70ish point C.

Bruins over reacted and Neely has said as much. The 1 goal in 22 games playoffs hurt. The Bruins brass was right when they said if Seguin was half as good as Kane, the Bruins would have won the Cup in 2013. Trading him was obviously a mistake, compounded by the fact that Loui Eriksson had such a slow start with the concussions during the part of the trade when the Bruins were supposed to be getting the better end of the stick. Not worth talking about anymore, though.

 

[PB37]

And everyone knew that Seguin wouldnt have been a 90+ point center in Boston as well. Bergy/Krejci werent being moved and Seguin wouldnt have gotten that chance, that plays in as well. And what if Morrow turns into a top four defenseman? A top six winger and a top four D man for a 70 point center is an easier sell than what he have currently

If Erikkson performed like he was expected to and Seguin didnt reach his max potential (say 70+ point center for 10 years) like he has the deal would look much much closer. Fact is Erikkson underperformed and Seguin is a franchise center, so the deal is horrible.

Seguin doesn't play center. He's still primarily a right winger.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

Seguin doesn't play center. He's still primarily a right winger.

Thats all you took from my posts?

My point is Seguin developed into a franchise forward, rather than a very good forward. Giving up a future 70 point forward for a 60-70 point forward (Erikkson) and a potential top four D (Morrow) seems pretty decent when you think about it that way, but Seguin is a stud and Erikkson underperformed.

 

[saillias]

If you do want this thread to die, why on earth are you posting in it?
#logicisnotmyforte

You are mistaken. I am making fun of you guys who are keeping it alive with the same talking points from July.

I also have a twitter account, I quite like it. Hash tags aren't really a thing anymore though.

 

[DJJones]

Hamilton is looking a lot better recently. Should be a solid top 4 with #2 upside for years.

Everyone calm down.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

You are mistaken. I am making fun of you guys who are keeping it alive with the same talking points from July.

I also have a twitter account, I quite like it. Hash tags aren't really a thing anymore though.

Its a message board, what else should we do all day.. work?

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

Hamilton is looking a lot better recently. [/B] Should be a solid top 4 with #2 upside for years.[/B]

Everyone calm down.

I mean this is cool, and I agree with you completely, but no one really knows this for sure. Hence the thread.

 

[BruinLVGA]

You are mistaken. I am making fun of you guys who are keeping it alive with the same talking points from July.

I also have a twitter account, I quite like it. Hash tags aren't really a thing anymore though.

Don't quit your day job...
#zerocontent

 

[PB37]

Thats all you took from my posts?

My point is Seguin developed into a franchise forward, rather than a very good forward. Giving up a future 70 point forward for a 60-70 point forward (Erikkson) and a potential top four D (Morrow) seems pretty decent when you think about it that way, but Seguin is a stud and Erikkson underperformed.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying I think he plays mostly right wing still. Calm your ****.