Don Cherry Division #2 Boston Bruins vs. #3 Montreal Maroons

Discussion in 'All Time Draft' started by Frightened Inmate #2, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. Frightened Inmate #2

    Frightened Inmate #2 Registered User

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    Don Cherry Division Second Round: #2 Boston Bruins vs. #3 Montreal Maroons

    [​IMG]vs.[​IMG]

    Boston Bruins

    Coach: Harry Sinden

    Busher Jackson - Joe Thornton - Andy Bathgate (A)
    Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt (C) - Bobby Bauer
    Bob Pulford - Mike Modano - Herbie Lewis
    Owen Nolan - Walt Tkaczuk - Mario Tremblay
    Paul Thompson

    Bobby Orr (A) - Earl Seibert
    Allan Stanley - Flash Hollett
    Fernie Flaman - Art Coulter (A)
    Jack Crawford

    Bill Durnan
    Andy Moog
    Miikka Kiprusoff


    Montreal Maroons

    Coach: Anatoli Tarasov
    Captain: Doug Harvey
    Alternates: Elmer Lach, Wayne Cashman

    Dickie Moore - Elmer Lach - Jaromir Jagr
    Steve Shutt - Jean Ratelle - Ace Bailey
    Wayne Cashman - Buddy O'connor - Ken Hodge
    Troy Murray-Keith Primeau- Dave Andreychuk
    John Ferguson

    Doug Harvey - Tom Johnson
    Ebbie Goodfellow - Red Horner
    Steve Duschene - Ed Van Impe
    Ed Jovanovski

    Billy Smith
    Roy Worters
    Hugh Lehman
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2006
  2. pitseleh

    pitseleh Registered User

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    To start off with goaltending, I'd give Durnan the advantage. Smith was an excellent clutch goaltender, but Durnan is easily a top 10 goaltender of all time. He also has a couple of cups to go along with his tremendous regular season record.

    The defenses are both anchored by stalwarts. I like Boston's depth a little better. While Horner was an excellent defenseman, having both Duschene and Jovo scares me a little.

    Up front, Moore-Lach-Jagr is one of the better top lines out there, with three dynamite forwards. I think Montreal also has better scoring depth, although they lack a real shutdown line (Primeau and Murray are a solid 2/3rds of one though).

    Overall, this is a really tight matchup, IMO. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.
     
  3. raleh

    raleh Registered User

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    What scares me is that I don't have the top defenceman in the series. That was one thing I assumed I would have in every matchup because I figured "what are the chances of facing off against Orr?" I know GBC will say Shore was better too, but Orr is the only one that I put head and shoulders above Harvey. To be perfectly honest Evil's team has been one of my favorites since the draft started and it scares the hell out of me haha.
     
  4. Frightened Inmate #2

    Frightened Inmate #2 Registered User

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    This is a really interesting matchup just due too the fact that the top two defensemen of all time (in my opinion of course) are battling it out. From #1-4 I like the Maroons just a hair more than the Bruins but when the third pairing is considered the edge really does have to go to the Bruins from the defensive side as Jovanovski and Duschene will be giving Tarasov fits due to their ability to turn into a scarecrow from time to time.

    Offensively I think that both teams are pretty even with solid two-way players although neither team would be considered elite from a defensive standpoint. I don't like having a player with a bad playoff reputation as the #1 center though and for that reason alone I think that there is a slight advantage to the Maroons although my opinion could be easily changed.

    Goaltending wise - Durnan is a solid pick but I really don't know how well his duel catcher will go over in a more modern NHL and that is my main concern. Smith on the other hand is as clutch as they come and as a result I have to favour the Maroons goaltending in this playoff matchup.

    When it comes to coaching I have the feeling that Tarasov will have major issues when it comes to his demanding style on players - especially Jagr.

    This series is as close as they get in my opinion
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2006
  5. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Regular season Durnan has a huge edge over Billy Smith, but this is a playoff series, and Smith was about as clutch as they come, negating the big regular season advantage for Durnan.

    I like the Montreal forwards over the Boston group. Primeau/Murray would do an excellent job shutting down Thornton.

    The Mntreal top line will have a big series.

    For Montreal to win the series they're going to need to go with four defenseman. Duchesne & Jovo paired together should scare the bejeezus out of Billy Smith.

    In the end Primeau blanks Thornton in games 6 & 7. Jagr dominates the 7th game offensively with 2 goals and 2 assists as Montreal wins 5-3.
     
  6. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    Doug Harvey - Tom Johnson
    Ebbie Goodfellow - Red Horner
    Steve Duschene - Ed Jovanovski
    Ed Van Impe[/QUOTE]

    Let's give Raleh the benefit of the doubt and allow him to substitute Van Impe as the sixth defenseman. Jovo will sit on the bench. Van Impe is far more consistent, aggressive and defensively responsible. He won't score nearly as much, but that won't be a huge concern for this team. Duschene-Van Impe is actually a pretty decent #3 pair, with a good mix of toughness, defensive play and puckmoving skills.
     
  7. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    Let's give Raleh the benefit of the doubt and allow him to substitute Van Impe as the sixth defenseman. Jovo will sit on the bench. Van Impe is far more consistent, aggressive and defensively responsible. He won't score nearly as much, but that won't be a huge concern for this team. Duschene-Van Impe is actually a pretty decent #3 pair, with a good mix of toughness, defensive play and puckmoving skills.[/QUOTE]

    I'd be inclined to do the same, this is a rediculously close matchup except when you see those two together it stands out. If I was Boston I'd be looking at exploiting those two as neither are all that great defensively.
     
  8. raleh

    raleh Registered User

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    Well I suppose I'll sit Jovo and put Van Impe in...I'll edit my lines in the roster section, elvi can you do it on your thread starting post or is it too late? What are the rules on that?
     
  9. kruezer

    kruezer Registered User

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    I think Jagr's supposed issues with working hard are overblown, Jagr doesn't like being in a crap environment for sure, but I do think he works hard and is willing to do whatever it takes to win.

    That said, this series is really tough to call, I'll take Speaker's D, and I think Durnan was spectacular, but the Bruins offense is pop gun at best, at least relative to an all time draft, if they can neutralize the Lach line though, Boston should be able to take the series.
     
  10. Frightened Inmate #2

    Frightened Inmate #2 Registered User

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    Look at Jagr in his later days in Pitsburgh and in Washington, whenever he stepped on the ice he showed that he was the most skilled player on the ice but he needs the right coach in order to produce and I don't think that coach is Tarasov, in fact I think that Jagr would have a significant personality clash in a very short period of time. Just the way that Jagr is and it is just the way that Tarasov is at the same time. I wouldn't say that Jagr is lazy, rather it takes a unique coach to push Jagr the right way so that he produces at the level that everyone knows he can produce at.
     
  11. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    This is likely going to be one of the best series of the playoffs. I think this will come down to the seventh game, likely to be decided in OT.

    I think JFF hit the nail on the head earlier when it comes to goaltending. I hold Durnan in the highest regard. I had him in the last draft. And yeah, he won two Cups, but there was the potential to win more. In the regular season, give me Durnan. Only Hasek had a better eight-year regular season run. But in the playoffs, give me Billy Smith. Absolutely one of the best money goalies to play the game. Regular season's over. This is the time when you want someone like Cheevers, Smith, Fuhr, Parent or Broda on your team ahead of Durnan, even though Durnan was the better regular season guy.

    I think the Speaker has the big edge on defence. raleh, I think the battle for No. 2 all-time is very close, and I wouldn't fault you for taking Harvey over Shore. I'll take Shore, but that's me. Of course, we aren't talking Harvey-Shore here. We're talking Harvey going against the best hockey player who ever lived. Boston also has an edge on depth. Seibert's one of the best No. 2's in the draft. Hollett's great offensively. Coulter, Flaman and Stanley are rock-solid defensively. Speaker's done extensive research into defenceman history, and he's been rewarded with the best defence in the draft. (Of course, it helps when you have the guy who will still be the uncontested No. 1 defenceman in 50 years).

    Up front is definitely worth watching. I think raleh has a more potent forward corps. Not by much, mind you, but this isn't raleh's pop gun offence we saw in the last draft. Lach, Jagr, Moore, Shutt, Andreychuk, Ratelle, Hodge - all these guys are capable of putting the puck in the net. The lines are a little mishmashed, but that can be corrected. raleh, I think Andreychuk might wind up as your 13th forward. Cashman is definitely a guy you want at this time of the year.

    Speaker reunited the Kraut Line - one of hockey's all-time best. His first line has two guys you could make a case for in the top 10 all-time at their positions. The big concern is if Jumbo Joe does one of his trademarked disappearing acts. The third line has a good combination of skill and defensive awareness. Modano did play a lot of right wing early in his career. The fourth line appears to be a little thrown together, but not as much as raleh's.
     
  12. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    I think Jagr-Tarasov is a powder keg waiting to explode. It's one of those subtle little things you have to watch for as the season progresses. Jagr never got along with Kevin Constantine, and Tarasov makes Constantine look like Tony Granato as far as being demanding.

    Tarasov rates as one of the all-time great coaches, but there have been questions since the pick was made whether he was the right coach for this team, or whether a guy like Bob Johnson might have been better.
     
  13. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Agreed. Tarasov and the old-school Soviets wer very inflexible in their game plans. It was all about puck possesion ... never could adapt to a dump & chase .. crash & bang style that players like Primeau, Cashman, Ferguson, Hodge, Murray and Andreychuk would excell at.

    For Montreal to win the series they need to adapt the unorthodox, but effective startegy that Shero used on Orr in 74. Continue to dump the puck in his corner time and time and time again. Make him continue to go get pucks and have to carry them 200 feet. Always take the body and try to wear him out over a long series.
     
  14. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    The Tarasov-Jagr situation is one to watch. Jagr seems to work best with North American amatuer coaches. And, simply put, do you really think a Czech wearing "68" on his jersey is going to get along with a Soviet coach?

    The goaltending battle is no contest in my opinion. Durnan never beat Broda in a 7 game series. Smith and Broda compair favourably. As good as Durnan was, he just wasn't money.

    And speaking of which, neither are Boston's big forwards. Thornton has never won anything, and Schmidt was notably less potent in the post-season, dispite his two cup rings.

    Boston has a huge edge on defence. But I think offence and goal suffer from less winning leadership.

    Coaching will make a difference.
     
  15. Evil Speaker

    Evil Speaker Registered

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    I dont mean to sound elitist or cocky (Although, i'm sure some of you will take it that way), but no matter how you look at it my defence is far better than the Maroons', top 2, top 4, top 6, whatever. As raleh said Orr is head and shoulders above Harvey...obviously. Harvey's sidekick couldn't tie Earl Seibert's skates. Allan Stanley is one of the most solid, dependable and responsible defencemen the game has ever seen who's passing ability quietley put him amoung the top scoring defensemen for several years. I certainly have him higher in my rankings than Red Horner. Flash Hollett is one of the greatest offensive puck rushing defecemen of all-time who's offensive skills are un-matched by Goodfellow (it's close though). As for my #5-6 guys I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better shutdown pair than Coulter and Flaman, their ability to shutdown elite players is the reason why they are both in the Hall of Fame and have 7 All-Star team selections between them. Flaman placed 3rd in Norris voting 3 times, and guess who were ahead of him all 3 times...Doug Harvey and Red Kelly (#3 and #6 d-men of all-time), or Doug Harvey and Bill Gadsby. I'm not trying to take anything away from raleh's D, he has a very strong top 4 and have alot of respect for him as a GM.... i'm just making a point that the Bruins D is superior.

    OT - It looks like old timers and defencmen are getting overlooked in this draft while forwards are getting too much attention (as usual). Hopefully from this ATD we all can learn more about the old-timers and make it more fair for GM's like murray who put together one of the best teams in the draft, but was shafted because he drafted players that some people have never heard of. Sorry, but 5th place in the division is blasphemy. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

    (I'll be writing more on topic analysis somtime today.)
     
  16. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    It's not arrogance if it's true.

    You're third pairing d-men are guys that I would look at as ideal #3 defencemen. Seibert is a legit #1 in a 20 team league. Stanley is a gem, a model for what defencemen should be. And Howlett is one of the best rushing d-men ever. Questions about the rest of his game, but he could get the offence going from the back end.
     
  17. pitseleh

    pitseleh Registered User

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    I agree on both counts. I think any way you slice it, Boston's D is better than Montreal's (and the best in the draft).

    And murray definitely got the shaft. Sure he was in a tough division, but he had an excellent team all around, and I'm a little disappointed that he ended up in fifth.

    Hopefully we don't take this thread too off course :D
     
  18. Frightened Inmate #2

    Frightened Inmate #2 Registered User

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    Stanley was one of the slowest defensemen out there.

    I did make a mistake in my rankings however I was thinking Tom Johnson was Ching Johnson and that is where the mistake was made. I know pretty much nothing about Tom Johnson
     
  19. Evil Speaker

    Evil Speaker Registered

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    I agree that the Maroons have the goaltending edge in the playoffs. One thing I wish i'd have done was select Joe Sakic as my #1 center who I was close to selecting instead of Durnan, and just wait on selecting a good clutch playoff goalie. I think a move like that would propell me further into the playoffs.

    My top line is big on ability, each of Bathgate, Jackson and Thornton have all led the league in points, but still, Thornton as the #1 center is definitly one of my worries. I think Thornton would get the job done setting up Jackson and Bathgate in the offensive zone (whether it be a soft set-up to Bathgate for the one-timer or and nifty pass to Jackson cutting acros the slot), but there's a chance he will weigh/slow them down in the playoffs where he is an unproven performer and in comparison, a poor skater. That said Thornton is'nt really the backbone of my team, I think I could make a few changes to make up for his possible failures (key word possible).
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2006
  20. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    I think Durnan only played in one game 7 in his career (first round in 1949) so it's not like he consistently did poorly in game 7's.
     
  21. pitseleh

    pitseleh Registered User

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    I think he meant in a 7 game series in general (ie a playoff round), rather than a series that went 7 games. Not sure if that's the case, but that's what I got from it.
     
  22. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    yeah, the only way Montreal could win the cup in the 40's is if someone else eliminated T.O. (Well, except when Broda was off in the war.)
     
  23. Transplanted Caper

    Transplanted Caper Registered User

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    And the Habs have only won Cups since 67 because the Leafs wern't there to play them:sarcasm: I think I just justified 40 years of pain:) :dunce:
     
  24. Transplanted Caper

    Transplanted Caper Registered User

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    How Tarasov adjusts to NA playoff hockey would be interesting to watch. I really like Boston's defence top to bottom. They could make the difference in the series and at the very least take away most, if not all, of the goaltending advantage Montreal has. My main concern for Boston is Thorton. He no doubt could do quite a lot in getting Boston into the #2 seed in the division, but can he continue his strong play into the playoffs? Luckily, he won't have to dominate games on his own like was expected of him in the past, that honour falls on Bobby Orr, who is arguably the greatest player to ever lace'em up.
     
  25. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    Thornton would for sure perform with Bathgate & Jackson on the wings & Orr on D. With Bathgate firing bullets from the right side, Jackson crashing into the slot from the left with his great backhand and Orr wheeling & dealing, Thornton is going to have a lot of room to do his thing.

    It is a tough call on who has the best forwards. The 2nd line on the Bruins is the Krauts with all their chemistry. Someone earlier said that Schmidt wasn't that great statistically in the playoffs. I would still want him on my team for his leadership & defensive play. The Ratelle line on the Maroons looks good even though I am not much of a Shutt fan but he should fit in with the playmaking of Ratelle & the corner work of Cashman. The 3rd & 4th lines should match up well. I think Walt Tkacuk is very under-rated & I remember his stellar 2 way play in the early 70's.

    Bruins have an excellent defence corp to go with Orr. Siebert, Stanley, Flaman & Coulter are all strong defensively & Hollet could score. First 4 for the Maroons are strong also. Harvey may be the 2nd best ever & Goodfellow won a Hart.

    Goaltending is a tough call. Clutch of Smith vs consistency of Durnan. I lean toward Durnan.

    A very tough series to pick a winner.
     

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