Speculation: Does Hoglander have the same value as Hagel did when he was with the Hawks??

[UrbanImpact]

Sportsnet was speculating yesterday that if the Canucks were to make Hoglander available that he might have similar value to what Hagel fetched from the Lightning.

Chicago received 2x 1st round picks Boris Katchouk, Raddysh while Lightning got Hagel and 2x 4th round picks.


The appeal of course being that both contracts are cost controlled while the player is performing at a very high level.

Hoglander currently sits in top 10 goal scoring 5 on 5 and has had 2 previous seasons of 10+ goals. He is currently on pace for 25 goals while being on the 4th line and limited PP time throughout the season. The Canucks just recently elevated him to the 2nd line and PP2.

Hoglander is an absolute beast 5 on 5. All of his 17 goals this season are on 5 on 5.. In fact 41-of his 43 career goals are 5 on5 . He is tied with Crosby and B. Tkachuk at 5 on 5 goals this season so far.


Hagel was 23 yrs old when he was traded, the same age Hoglander is now.

Hoglander will be making only 1.1 mil next year and then he is still team controlled as RFA status the year after. Very similar to Hagel's situation with the Hawks back then.

Hagel had 30 career goals before being traded, Hoglander has 43 career goals.

Hoglander can most definitely be a very intriguing player for an all in - cap strapped team like the Lightning was.

I dont think Vancouver trades him simply because they need Hoglanders production and contract value but you never know with Gunslinger Jim at the wheel.

Thoughts? could Vancouver get similar value for Hoglander much like the Hawks got for Hagel?

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[Empoleon8771]

Lmao no

If you want a more serious answer, absolutely not:

1. When Hagel was traded, he had 21 goals and 37 points in 55 games with the Hawks. Hoglander is at 17 goals and 25 points in 57 games.
2. A major factor in Hagel's high value was that he was signed for an additional 2.5 years at $1.5 million AAV. Hoglander only has 1.5 additional years at $1.1 million AAV.
3. Hagel had maintained his good levels for longer than Hoglander has. Hagel had 24 points in 52 games in 2020-2021 in addition to what he did in 2021-2022. Hoglander's previous 2 seasons had him combine for 27 points in 85 games. Hoglander did match what he has done this year in his rookie year in 2020-2021, but he had 2 very poor years after that.

I could see someone biting and giving up a 1st for Hoglander, but absolutely not even close to the gross payment Chicago got for Hagel.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Hagel only had that value to Tampa specifically. Lots of teams would have liked him, Tampa NEEDED him because his combination of age, contract, role, and production were a perfect fit and their options were severely limited due to cap. Same reason Jeannot got a huge return. There was exactly one team he was a flawless fit for, so they moved heaven and Earth to get that guy.

Hoglander is a decent player, but there really aren't any older capped out contenders who absolutely need him to do one specific thing. He's kinda just another player. There are plenty of guys like him on the market, he doesn't provide unique value that you can't get elsewhere like Hagel had.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Hagel had an additional 2 years of term left on that contract.

 

[Shocker]

No.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I honestly dont recall, but who did Hagel play with in Chicago lines wise?

Hoglander has 80% played with Nils Aman, and Sam Lafferty this season. Just recently got bumped up to play with EP40 and Lindholm, they dabbled with him alongside Miller and Boeser as well but like is aid 80% with Lafferty and Aman.

Though Hoglander would highly likely not get 2x 1st round picks,

I can see him being the main return as part of a package for a legit Dman or top 6 forward to the Canucks. Thats if the Canucks made him available.


To a team perhaps like Pitt for Geuntzel. Im sure Pitt would value his production and 1.1 mil contract for next year over a late 1st round pick or a young prospect who wont be ready for the Crosby,Malkin, Letang, KArlsson window.

 

[FerrisRox]

Sportsnet was speculating yesterday that if the Canucks were to make Hoglander available that he might have similar value to what Hagel fetched from the Lightning.

Chicago received 2x 1st round picks Boris Katchouk, Raddysh while Lightning got Hagel and 2x 4th round picks.


The appeal of course being that both contracts are cost controlled while the player is performing at a very high level.

Hoglander currently sits in top 10 goal scoring 5 on 5 and has had 2 previous seasons of 10+ goals. He is currently on pace for 25 goals while being on the 4th line and limited PP time throughout the season. The Canucks just recently elevated him to the 2nd line and PP2.

Hoglander is an absolute beast 5 on 5. All of his 17 goals this season are on 5 on 5.. In fact 41-of his 43 career goals are 5 on5 . He is tied with Crosby and B. Tkachuk at 5 on 5 goals this season so far.


Hagel was 23 yrs old when he was traded, the same age Hoglander is now.

Hoglander will be making only 1.1 mil next year and then he is still team controlled as RFA status the year after. Very similar to Hagel's situation with the Hawks back then.

Hagel had 30 career goals before being traded, Hoglander has 43 career goals.

Hoglander can most definitely be a very intriguing player for an all in - cap strapped team like the Lightning was.

I dont think Vancouver trades him simply because they need Hoglanders production and contract value but you never know with Gunslinger Jim at the wheel.

Thoughts? could Vancouver get similar value for Hoglander much like the Hawks got for Hagel?

I'm astonished that this was said on Sportsnet.

Their values aren't even remotely the same. Who on Sportsnet made this claim!??

 

[UrbanImpact]

Hagel only had that value to Tampa specifically. Lots of teams would have liked him, Tampa NEEDED him because his combination of age, contract, role, and production were a perfect fit and their options were severely limited due to cap. Same reason Jeannot got a huge return. There was exactly one team he was a flawless fit for, so they moved heaven and Earth to get that guy.

Hoglander is a decent player, but there really aren't any older capped out contenders who absolutely need him to do one specific thing. He's kinda just another player. There are plenty of guys like him on the market, he doesn't provide unique value that you can't get elsewhere like Hagel had.

Plenty of guys like him on the market?

Hes a 23 yr old with potential to be a 30 goal scorer next year making 1.1 mil.

Which other players are on the market that fits that description?

Every team that has a cup window open can use him, it doesnt just have to be capped out teams.

Imagine being a cup contending team with a 1.1 mil Hoglander on it and his production. That just opens it up for so much more cap to be used elsewhere on the team.

Like i said though, Canucks probably keep him for those reasons. They will have around 20 mil cap space next year but will also need cheap guys to make the team, players like Hoglander and Podkolzin.

 

[hn777]

As a Jets fan I never understood why this guy wasn't regarded higher with the Canucks. He seems dangerous to me in limited opportunities, every time I watch them play.
What am I missing, why would Vancouver trade him?

Edit: Despite being small, also plays with an edge.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Why are they trying to trade him?

 

[AfroThunder396]

Plenty of guys like him on the market?

Hes a 23 yr old with potential to be a 30 goal scorer next year making 1.1 mil.

Which other players are on the market that fits that description?

Every team that has a cup window open can use him, it doesnt just have to be capped out teams.

Imagine being a cup contending team with a 1.1 mil Hoglander on it and his production. That just opens it up for so much more cap to be used elsewhere on the team.

Like i said though, Canucks probably keep him for those reasons. They will have around 20 mil cap space next year but will also need cheap guys to make the team, players like Hoglander and Podkolzin.

Lots of players have potential, this is Hoglander's 4th season and he has a career high of 27 points.

17 goals is nice, but he's shooting at over 20%. That's not going to continue.

 

[cheesymc]

Hell no lol

 

[UrbanImpact]

Why are they trying to trade him?

They are not ( i dont think ) im just going by a Sportsnet hit yesterday pre-game where they discussed Hoglander's huge value to other teams if they ever made him available.

Lots of players have potential, this is Hoglander's 4th season and he has a career high of 27 points.

17 goals is nice, but he's shooting at over 20%. That's not going to continue.

like who though?

Hagel had 30 career goals at same age as Hoglander who has 43.

Sure Hoglander's shooting percentage might go down but his opportunity will go up, he isnt playing with 4th line players anymore like he has much of this season.

 

[UrbanImpact]

As a Jets fan I never understood why this guy wasn't regarded higher with the Canucks. He seems dangerous to me in limited opportunities, every time I watch them play.
What am I missing, why would Vancouver trade him?

Edit: Despite being small, also plays with an edge.

He was an incomplete player before, not that he is a finish product now, but having Bodreau as his coach last year was really really bad for his development.

The best thing to happen to Hoglander was he spent time in the AHL last year and learned under Jeremy Colliton who is a mini Rick Tochett..


lol and you described Hoglander perfectly, dangerous offensively with an edge.

lol i rememeber when he was leading the WJC in scoring until he got suspended for the rest of the tournament in the semi finals game for a headshot to a Russian player.

Canucks arent trying to trying to trade him, the speculation is all about what his value would be if they did move him.

 

[HighLifeMan]

No. The extra year was a massive selling point.

I'd say he'd have half the value, but for the exact same reasons a contender would want to acquire him, is why the Canucks would keep him.

 

[hn777]

lol i rememeber when he was leading the WJC in scoring until he got suspended for the rest of the tournament in the semi finals game for a headshot to a Russian player.

OT, but I do too, as I think it was the WJC with David Gustaffson of the Jets centering Hoglander and another skilled winger (can't remember who). They were great together!

Edit: But you should absolutely keep him. IMO, Vancouver is in the process of getting tougher to play against with the guys, you have picked up lately. Until last year, you were too soft, so IMO Canucks need more of those types playing with an edge, not less.

 

[UrbanImpact]

No. The extra year was a massive selling point.

I'd say he'd have half the value, but for the exact same reasons a contender would want to acquire him, is why the Canucks would keep him.

So youre saying Hoglander would get a 1st and a prospect?

Id say thats probably accurate.... if moved though i dont think the Canucks would want a 1st, i think they'd use Hoglander to obtain a top 6 or top4 like a Geuntzel or Chychrun. Like you said though, they likely dont move him because they feel they are in a cup window and would like to benefit from his production and contract value.

Can easily see Pittsburgh asking for Hoglander in a return for Geuntzel.

 

[HighLifeMan]

So youre saying Hoglander would get a 1st and a prospect?

Id say thats probably accurate.... if moved though i dont think the Canucks would want a 1st, i think they'd use Hoglander to obtain a top 6 or top4 like a Geuntzel or Chychrun. Like you said though, they likely dont move him because they feel they are in a cup window and would like to benefit from his production and contract value.

Can easily see Pittsburgh asking for Hoglander in a return for Geuntzel.

I'd imagine a team like Florida would offer that type of value for two playoff runs of Hoglander at 1.1M if they had any 1st's to give haha.

 

[UrbanImpact]

OT, but I do too, as I think it was the WJC with David Gustaffson of the Jets centering Hoglander and another skilled winger (can't remember who). They were great together!

Lol ya, Hoglander had 11 pts in 7 games at the WJC but then got suspended. He was dominant in that tourny and scored one of the nicest michigan to date.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I honestly dont recall, but who did Hagel play with in Chicago lines wise?

Hoglander has 80% played with Nils Aman, and Sam Lafferty this season. Just recently got bumped up to play with EP40 and Lindholm, they dabbled with him alongside Miller and Boeser as well but like is aid 80% with Lafferty and Aman.

Though Hoglander would highly likely not get 2x 1st round picks,

I can see him being the main return as part of a package for a legit Dman or top 6 forward to the Canucks. Thats if the Canucks made him available.


To a team perhaps like Pitt for Geuntzel. Im sure Pitt would value his production and 1.1 mil contract for next year over a late 1st round pick or a young prospect who wont be ready for the Crosby,Malkin, Letang, KArlsson window.

That means nothing, teams will only pay a Hagel type of price for Hoglander if he actually performs at Hagel's level. If Vancouver would want to get that level of return for Hoglander, they should have been playing him in their top-6 so he'd be producing more. As he is now, he's just not productive enough to get even close to what Hagel brought back.

His goal scoring is obviously great, but he's still only pacing for 36 points and he's riding a 21% shooting%. I think getting a 1st back would be about a best case scenario.

 

[wintersej]

Vancouver is in a position where they should be keeping him for all the reasons Tampa traded for Hagel.

But, as folks have pointed out, Hagel had even more going for him.

Also, the end of the flat cap might change the calculous a bit as well.

 

[FerrisRox]

They are not ( i dont think ) im just going by a Sportsnet hit yesterday pre-game where they discussed Hoglander's huge value to other teams if they ever made him available.

Who on Sportsnet said this?

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

The guy is shooting 21% and still has close to half the points Hagel had when he was traded. Hoglander is a good player but he wouldn't even fetch a first.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I'm astonished that this was said on Sportsnet.

Their values aren't even remotely the same. Who on Sportsnet made this claim!??

Just look for the guy with the sore back from carrying all the water.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I wouldn't count on it but Hoglander returning a similar haul wouldn't shock me, either.

One major factor that would determine his return is if Vancouver is willing to trade him to a rival. Chicago didn't care who got Hagel; if Vancouver isn't willing to trade Hollander to, say, Edmonton, Dallas, Winnipeg, Vegas or Colorado, that takes at least a couple serious bidders out of the picture.

The guy is shooting 21% and still has close to half the points Hagel had when he was traded. Hoglander is a good player but he wouldn't even fetch a first.

Some team would absolutely chuck a late first and a throw-in or two for Hoglander. Hell, my Sens would happily give up Boston's 1st for him and he doesn't even really fill a need. Tarasenko @ 50% & a third? No problem, take it!