Does Finland have the best 23-under forward line by any country?

[Merya]

Sweden, Canada and US could ice a better depth teams. Finland has higher end talent then some--but in talking about total roster?

The topic is about a line, not roster. Don't be so defensive that you mix the topic.

 

[Merya]

Barkov centering Laine and Tolvanen in the future looks really nice. Barkov is going to be a Selke top3, Laine is in close competition for the Rocket, and Tolvanen is at age 18 showing a very mature complete game of hockey. It's better than Lehtinen - Koivu - Selänne in potential. Secondary scoring also looks better than ever. Rantanen, Granlund, Aho, Teräväinen, Haula, etc.

e: There's no reason for nucks to get their knickers tied. This is just about Finlands future looking surprisingly good, when in 2014 it looked absolutely bleak.

 

[Albatros]

I don't see Tolvanen or his potential anywhere near that trio. Sami Kapanen maybe.

 

[illone84]

I'm not sure Finland has the top forward line u-23, but it's damn well good enough to grab your attention.
That would have been impossible even just last year.
Finns are making deep strides.

 

[jalperi]

Barkov centering Laine and Tolvanen in the future looks really nice. Barkov is going to be a Selke top3, Laine is in close competition for the Rocket, and Tolvanen is at age 18 showing a very mature complete game of hockey. It's better than Lehtinen - Koivu - Selänne in potential. Secondary scoring also looks better than ever. Rantanen, Granlund, Aho, Teräväinen, Haula, etc.

e: There's no reason for nucks to get their knickers tied. This is just about Finlands future looking surprisingly good, when in 2014 it looked absolutely bleak.

2010 it looked s**t. 2014 there was already little bright seeing. (Granlund, Barkov, Määttä,Vatanen...)

 

[Ippenator]

I don't see Tolvanen or his potential anywhere near that trio. Sami Kapanen maybe.

I’m pretty sure he will be a better player than Kapanen was. At least definitely a better goal scorer, but most probably a better player in general too. Kapanen didn’t have even close to the class of the shot that Tolvanen has, and also I dare to say that Tolvanen has clearly better hockey IQ than Kapanen had. Kapanen was a better skater, but even in that area Tolvanen does not lose by much.

 

[Boxscore]

Yeah, have to admit they've got you here. You are right in that Mcdavid isn't a god or anything but still, hes the best player out of all the players listed here, you put him with other great players and a guy like that really does swing things.

Still, Its a tough call that any Canada under 23 line is better then what Finland can trot out.

Oh, I agree that individually McDavid is better than Laine, Barkov or Rantanen - I wouldn't even argue that. However, I've yet to see a definite Canada u-23 line suggested that clearly beats the Finn line of Laine-Barkov-Rantanen. It's being implied that "McDavid swings any line" so just throw another center up there like Barzal and it's a clear win for Canada - it's not that simple.

The Finn line has a bunch going for it...

1. All 3 players are top-end talents, scoring at a PPG or above
2. All 3 players are 6-4 and bigger
3. All 3 players are playing in their true positions
4. All 3 players compliment each other perfectly (not trying to just put "names" on lines and "making it work")

I think, when it comes to Canada, people are just throwing individual names out there and making a claim the line would be better because of the names and not factoring chemistry, role, and style of play. Not to mention, that Barkov clearly has a better 200-foot game than any player Canada would throw out 23-under.

The best line I could think of for Canada that could match-up well with that Finn line is...

Dubois-McDavid-MacKinnon

In order to match that Finn line, Canada will need a complimentary winger with size and the ability to play a utility role, including banging in the corners, fighting for pucks, and competing physically with big monsters like Laine and Rantanen. Barzal, for example, would make that line way too one-dimensional.

 

[Jez]

If I was going against the Laine - Barkov - Rantanen line with an Under-23 US team I 'd most likely put Tkachuk - Matthews - Eichel on the ice

I think they would match up well against the Finns.

Matthews – in a different style – is as good a goal scorer as Laine. Tkachuk is a possession fiend who is great at protecting the puck, battling in the corners and being a front net presence. Eichel is an amazing playmaker with a great one timer (hello deflections) and on the right side his inability to win face-offs won't be damaging.

If we want to stay very strict about positions then have Keller or Schmaltz on the right wing. They can make passes in traffic as well as anyone.

I wouldn't use Boeser with Matthews - they both like to shoot the puck too much.

 

[jj cale]

Oh, I agree that individually McDavid is better than Laine, Barkov or Rantanen - I wouldn't even argue that. However, I've yet to see a definite Canada u-23 line suggested that clearly beats the Finn line of Laine-Barkov-Rantanen. It's being implied that "McDavid swings any line" so just throw another center up there like Barzal and it's a clear win for Canada - it's not that simple.

The Finn line has a bunch going for it...

1. All 3 players are top-end talents, scoring at a PPG or above
2. All 3 players are 6-4 and bigger
3. All 3 players are playing in their true positions
4. All 3 players compliment each other perfectly (not trying to just put "names" on lines and "making it work")

I think, when it comes to Canada, people are just throwing individual names out there and making a claim the line would be better because of the names and not factoring chemistry, role, and style of play. Not to mention, that Barkov clearly has a better 200-foot game than any player Canada would throw out 23-under.

The best line I could think of for Canada that could match-up well with that Finn line is...

Dubois-McDavid-MacKinnon

In order to match that Finn line, Canada will need a complimentary winger with size and the ability to play a utility role, including banging in the corners, fighting for pucks, and competing physically with big monsters like Laine and Rantanen. Barzal, for example, would make that line way too one-dimensional.

I wouldnt disagree with a word you are saying here,as I mentioned in a few posts here that Finnish line is about as good as it gets.

 

[McNuge]

The Finns couldn't deal with the speed of McDavid and Mackinnon on the same line. Doesn't even matter who the 3rd player on the line is.

It is easily Canada then it is a conversation between the USA and Finns for the 2 and 3 spots. No one else is close after that.

 

[Boxscore]

The Finns couldn't deal with the speed of McDavid and Mackinnon on the same line. Doesn't even matter who the 3rd player on the line is.

It is easily Canada then it is a conversation between the USA and Finns for the 2 and 3 spots. No one else is close after that.

While I agree with you that speed would be Canada's calling card on that top line, I think the Finn's could counter that, although it would be a challenge to contain. For one, the Finns are bigger, stronger, and Barkov and Rantanen are both elite-level when it comes to puck protection - and it helps that they both have massive wingspans. Barkov is also a tenacious 3-zone player, a la Kopitar, who ends up edging his opponent in most match-ups, even though he's not the fastest skater.

Don't get me wrong, the prospect of McDavid and MacKinnon is scary, but I would like to see how they compliment each other. I'm assuming they would be gold with their speed, McDavid's sublime passing skills and MacKinnon's deadly shot. But I would like to see the other piece on that line. And, I still think the Finns would go head-to-head against them or anyone.

As for the Tkachuk-Matthews-Eichel line... darn, that's good too. The only thing I don't love is that Matthews and Eichel are both centermen by trade and they both love to shoot the puck. Ideally a "Gaudreau" would be on that line - playmaking winger - so, as awesome as Eichel is, I would probably consider a Tkachuk-Matthews-Keller line to maximize chemistry.

 

[QnebO]

I guess you could debate that Barzal would have to play out of position on the wing but this line immediately comes to mind and is certainly better:

Barzal-McDavid-MacKinnon

Only player that is "definitely" better there is McDavid. Question is, is he hockey god enough to be better alone.

Laine >> Barzal
Kinnon > Rants

Those Wingers go slightly for finns, McDavid wins the centers therefore Canadian line is bit better.

 

[Mrb1p]

I reckon a couple of them would be to old.

Is it Drouin/McDavid/Marner?

DROUIN LOLLLLL

 

[Mrb1p]

Great list. Kinda weird to see the Swiss ahead of the Russians.

The ruskies are going to shoot up that ranking.

Denisrnko-Kravtsov/Kostin-Svechnikov

 

[Baxterman]

Only player that is "definitely" better there is McDavid. Question is, is he hockey god enough to be better alone.

Laine >> Barzal
Kinnon > Rants

Those Wingers go slightly for finns, McDavid wins the centers therefore Canadian line is bit better.

No MacKinnon is definitely better than Rantaanen and no way is the gap between Laine and Barzal bigger than MacKinnon and Rantanen.

As for the poster talking about how the Canadians would deal with the size of the Fins, it would be pretty easy their speed and superior skill would mean they would have the puck all the time and sakting circles around the Finns.

Also, I know this doesn't take into account defense (for obvious reasons considering the OP) but a lot of the issues brought up seem like issues for the Canadian defense to deal with and they would have no problem dealing with it at all.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

DROUIN LOLLLLL

So who is Canada's best U23 full-time LW?

 

[Mrb1p]

So who is Canada's best U23 full-time LW?

Clearly not Drouin.

 

[Baxterman]

So who is Canada's best U23 full-time LW?

Canada has done just fine moving centers to the wings in international tournament so who cares who the best natural LWer is when the is no rule that you have to have a natural LW play there.

They will use the guy who is best on the LW regardless of his natural position.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Clearly not Drouin.

Weird name.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Canada has done just fine moving centers to the wings in international tournament so who cares who the best natural LWer is when the is no rule that you have to have a natural LW play there.

They will use the guy who is best on the LW regardless of his natural position.

I get that. I just wanted to see the depth with the positions locked. Of course they'd have 25 guys better than Drouin for that spot if positions were moved around.

 

[Mrb1p]

So who is Canada's best U23 full-time LW?

Also Drouin ain't a full time LW, he plays all three positions. Probably at his best on the RW too.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I would rank Finland right there with Canada and USA for the top under 23 team in the world.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

1. MacKinnon-McDavid-Barzal
2. Laine-Barkov-Rantanen
3. Eichel-Matthews-Boeser
4. Nylander-Petterson-Forsberg
5. Kase-Faksa-Pastrnak
6. Meier-Hischier-Fiala
7. Kaprizov-Kamenev-Buchnevich

Maybe a dumb question, but why do you include Faksa and Kase over guys like Chytl and Necas? Not that it changes anything but was just genuinely curious since you do include Petterson, Kanenev, and Kaprizov who aren't yet NHLrs.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Maybe a dumb question, but why do you include Faksa and Kase over guys like Chytl and Necas? Not that it changes anything but was just genuinely curious since you do include Petterson, Kanenev, and Kaprizov who aren't yet NHLrs.

I'm a Rangers fan, so its not like I dislike Chytil. I just think those first two are good players, and already established in the NHL.

Kamenev had to be included because there was no one else, and he kind of is an NHL'er, if he wasn't injured. Pettersson and Kaprizov are the two best drafted prospects not in the NHL, in my opinion. Chytil and Necas are very good, but I think they are less of sure things than Pettersson and Kaprizov.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Fair enough.