Does Dubas have the power to make a coaching change?

Does Dubas have the power to make a coaching change?


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Crysis

Registered User
Jun 28, 2015
1,144
296
30th to 14th to 7th.

"blunder"

Man some people are just beyond reason.
It was all coaching. The roster remained basically the same..../s

Guess I should have said might "become" one of the biggest blunders. If his coaching style is so dated that our franchise player doesn't want to be here(not saying it's gotten there yet) then it's a disaster.
 
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IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,584
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This is such a myth. Dubas has twice acquired a guy like Alex Gudbranson to play under him, he's also employed Rich Clune with the Marlies.

It seems there is no middle ground with Dubas. Either, he is entirely to blame for analytics darlings who suck like Marancin in one sides eyes, or he'll never allow a coach to play a guy like Komarov or Martin.

If you expect him to go to war with Babcock over his usage of Hyman, I expect you'll be shocked.
Whatever you want to believe but just remember my position when things start developing as the season goes on.
 
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Crysis

Registered User
Jun 28, 2015
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296
There are so many angles at play here, as noted above with Hyman's usage, etc. and how Dubas feels about that. Will be very interesting.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,709
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He doesn't have the power to do it himself, but if he has a great reason and is able to get Shanny on board then I guess he could. That's probably not going to happen though
 

MR4

Registered User
Oct 20, 2014
6,270
2,253
People who think Babcock's job security within the first 3-5 years of his contract will be determined by how far we advance in the Playoffs make me smile. There's still lots of development required, as we all saw against Boston, to turn this young core into the team of NHLers we all believe they can become. Babcock's leash is a long one.

To answer your question, no, Dubas will not have the power to simply fire Babcock. But that doesn't mean that Babcock has more power than Dubas, as I certainly don't believe Babcock could fire Dubas either, if he wanted to for whatever reason. Dubas and Babs will work together, and everyone will work with Shanny, and hopefully we keep progressing the way we have been the past couple years.
People who think Babs would still be here in 5 years if we had 5 1st round exits in a row make me laugh. The league acts on results, if we get knocked out in the first round again next year I'd expect Babs' job to be put on probation and if another 1st round exit the year after, gone for sure.

You don't wait the majority of a team's prime to fire someone just because you're scared, if Babs isn't doing the job in playoffs he'll need to go. Not every coach can be Scotty Bowman and coach well for life, eventually there's an expiry date.

And Dubas will need to make the case to Shanahan for firing Babs but don't think he's immune just because Dubas can't wake up 1 day and say I want Babs gone.
 
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MR4

Registered User
Oct 20, 2014
6,270
2,253
30th to 14th to 7th.

"blunder"

Man some people are just beyond reason.
I don't think Babs has just been sitting on his ass but our improvement is MUCH more the team's roster improving immensely than Babcock who was here when we were 30th and when we just got 7th.
 

barilko05

NHL FAN
Jan 28, 2011
1,123
860
I will tell you one thing, Dubas will be very confrontational to Babcock regarding his usage plugs like Komarov, Martin and Hyman. If he's not willing to adapt to the game today, other options will be explored - he can be assured of that.
I think you're mistaken putting Hyman with the other two. Regardless of WHERE he is playing, he has proven himself to be a dependable NHL player. Yes, he MAY be on the wrong line...but WHERE he plays when he is in the lineup is up to the coach, not the GM. If my GM ever came down to ice level and told me, the coach, that X player has to go on Y line, I would not only be pissed, but I must definitely go over his head to HIS boss with "Its him or me." Dubas may have decisions over player PERSONNEL, but certainly not on-ice deployment. Not if he wants any sort of respect or future employment in this league.
 

kesleaf

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
1,965
385
Just came in to post this @ the thought of a coaching change.

200.gif
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
20,427
6,114
Makes you a bit nervous about the possible damage another year with Babs could have as far as Matthews opinion on playing here. Hopefully things improve!
hopefully they improve indeed. i wouldn't want to imagine what would happen if their relationship was sour.
 

ITM

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
Jan 26, 2012
4,566
2,541
Do you guys think Dubas actually has the power to fire Babcock?
If not then he's not a true GM as far as I'm concerned. The coach can't have more power than the GM in any successful team. GM's typically like to bring in their own coach as well. If they don't make it to the second round next year I think Babcock's job will be in jeopardy.

A lot of people have claimed Babcock got out coached, he hasn't won a round in the playoffs in x number of years, 8 or 9 I think? Albeit the wings took a huge nose dive talent wise once Lidstrom retired(OBVIOUSLY.) but still not a good stat to have on your resume. Overplaying Anderson even though a playoff spot was locked up is another thing people have doubts about...the use of Leivo, etc.

The possible power struggle within the organization combined with the rumored rift between Babs and Matthews should make things very interesting moving forward. As much as Babcock has helped the rebuild I'm not convinced he's the coach to take the team to the top. Babcock may be too old school for this era. He's very hard on his players, does that work nowadays?

I'd prefer Dubas to have full autonomy to make a coaching change if he sees fit but I don't think that's the case.

In his press conference, Dubas used the expression of "leading the organization" which sounds an awful lot like his opinion within a collegial environment has the effective weight of any GM in any NHL organization, save those with multiple titles above GM.

As for Babcock's job being in jeopardy should the club not make it to the second round...Again, from the press conference, Dubas is fully aware that there established teams who will continue to challenge for the Cup (i.e. Tampa Bay) and there are those teams that are either alongside us or not far behind and rising (i.e. Florida). It could be Toronto doesn't make it out of the first round given the competition is simply better than where the club might be. It's a long process. Something everyone in the Toronto Maple Leafs repeats consistently.

What is about limiting the necessary time it will take us to arrive at that point that is so attractive to some?

One thing I suspect is crystal clear, is that Dubas requires Shanahan's participation in any major movement whomever the person is, coming in or leaving Toronto as a decision in Dubas' control.

As I noted in another thread, Dubas has extensive hockey managerial knowledge. His age is less an indicator of how much experience a typical manager has and more of an outlier that indicates that all Dubas does and has done since he was eleven revolves around managing hockey assets.

There will be no "power struggle" because both principals in your example, ultimately answer to the man that hired them: Brendan Shanahan.
 
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kindalaidback

숨 참고 LOVE DIVE
Nov 24, 2017
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NYC
The reasons some people think that could be a better direction have been provided in the thread. Why not read it and actually add some value?
you guys believe that the org should relieve babcock from his duties and hire a different coach because of some non-conflict between matthews and babcock, and that he doesn't wanna play on this team anymore because of his coach, even though this is nonsense. if that is the case, where are the receipts?

and no, not playing your favorite players together is not a reason to fire someone.
 

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
33,961
21,043
Toronto
you guys believe that the org should relieve babcock from his duties and hire a different coach because of some non-conflict between matthews and babcock, and that he doesn't wanna play on this team anymore because of his coach, even though this is nonsense. if that is the case, where are the receipts?

and no, not playing your favorite players together is not a reason to fire someone.
Last thing we need is Babs being fired over a preceived conflict with Matthews and then have the team fall back. The situation would be beyond toxic and put Matthews in a terrible position.
 

Toronto makebeleifs

Registered User
Jul 4, 2014
1,964
688
Yes, he has the power to fire a coach. No, he will not fire Babcock. So many hot takes in here, it' ridiculous. This is year 3 of a 5 year plan. We weren't even supposed to make the playoffs last year, but we did. We put up a record number of points and went to game 7 against the Bruins this year with (arguably) our best shut down center gone for 3 games. This, all with a team that has obvious needs and holes to fill. Yes, I understand that there are odd decisions that our coach makes; so does every other coach in the entire league. Before anyone comes out and says 'oh, but he should be playing Matthews with marner!' Aside from rare situations (which Babcock does play them together) does quennville play toews and Kane together? Does laviolette play Forsberg and johannsen together? Backstrom and ovi play together and this is the first time in a literal generation they've gotten past the second round. Benn and Seguin play together and their team didn't make the playoffs. Furthermore, you don' think shanahan would have a say in any moves regarding a multi-million dollar contract for a coach he had to sway to come here? Literally every gm in the league would need approval from the president/ owner to pull a move like that.
 

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