Do fans worry too much about cap space?

[ErnieLeafs]

Grabovski's two seasons were in an open offense system. Since Carlyle has come in, he clearly hasn't been happy.

Clarkson is bringing in leadership, and a quality team-mate.

I can almost guarantee you that if both players are on 3rd line minutes, down 2-0 in a game and Grabovski isn't saying anything. Instead he's sulking in the corner about the minutes he's playing. Clarkson the other hand is going to step up and say something and get one of those scrappy goals needed to succeed in this league. Or he'll go out there and stir **** up. Grabovski doesn't fit this team. Doesn't matter what you say if he doesn't fit the team.

You can almost guarantee he'd sulk, eh?

Based on the fact that he didn't do that all year?
Based on the fact that he kept his mouth shut, put his head down, and gave 100% every game?

Can you not shoot your own foot, just once?

This isn't about Grabo. It was about the principle. And it was correct. People were *****ing about that contract the other day, and this one is worse. Plain and simple.

Regardless of how Clarkson plays, people will be *****ing again in a year or two, saying he's not providing 5.25 million worth. It's a cycle, and you're just delaying the inevitable by trying to argue otherwise. We'll talk in a couple of years when you change the record back to the old tune you were harping about Grabovski lately.

 

[colchar]

How is it a big difference if we can't afford his supposed demands due to lack of cap space ?

It has nothing to do with cap space and everything to do with him asking for more than he is worth (or more than the team thinks he is worth). They were refusing his contract demands when they had a ton of cap space so even when they could have paid him what he wanted, they were not prepared to do so. Therefore, it is incorrect to blame the cap and the blame should be placed where it belongs - on him for making unreasonable demands.

 

[hotpaws]

Or maybe we don't want to give him the money he is asking??

Maybe we don't but could we afford too even if we wanted .

 

[colchar]

You can almost guarantee he'd sulk, eh?

Based on the fact that he didn't do that all year?
Based on the fact that he kept his mouth shut, put his head down, and gave 100% every game?

Can you not shoot your own foot, just once?

Take your own advice - there were media reports today of Grabo getting lippy with Carlyle last season.

People were *****ing about that contract the other day, and this one is worse.

And you know this how? Have you seen the future? Depending on what he brings to the team every night this could be a great deal for the Leafs, especially in light of the cap going up.

Regardless of how Clarkson plays, people will be *****ing again in a year or two, saying he's not providing 5.25 million worth. It's a cycle, and you're just delaying the inevitable by trying to argue otherwise. We'll talk in a couple of years when you change the record back to the old tune you were harping about Grabovski lately.

Since you can so clearly see the future would you mind giving us next week's lottery numbers?

 

[colchar]

Maybe we don't but could we afford too even if we wanted .

Huh?

 

[egd27]

When more people are discussing the cap hit than what the player brings to the team, it's gone too far.
And based on what I read today, it's gone too far.

 

[hotpaws]

It has nothing to do with cap space and everything to do with him asking for more than he is worth (or more than the team thinks he is worth). They were refusing his contract demands when they had a ton of cap space so even when they could have paid him what he wanted, they were not prepared to do so. Therefore, it is incorrect to blame the cap and the blame should be placed where it belongs - on him for making unreasonable demands.

You're assuming a lot since I don't think his demands have ever been made public . We had a ton of cap space because we bought out 2 players and had only half a team signed . You act like we had millions per player in cap space when nothing could be farther from the truth .

We made one trade , one ufa signing and signed a few of our own players and we're already tight against the cap if not in a position to have to move out a player to be able to resign the rest of our RFA's .

But of course this has nothing to do with our cap situation .

 

[Drew75]

YES!!! People tend to way over-react!

I can completely understand not wanting your team to do a crazy 12 year contract until a player is 42 like we've seen in recent years - but to freak out about how many players are left to sign vs. how much space is left is silly.

It comes off like people think Nonis and his team can't do the math - when in fact they're a room full of people who understand the players, values, and cap implications about 100X times better than anyone on these boards.

The funny thing is that it's often the same people who keep complaining that a guy on a one-way deal can't be sent to minors!!

 

[colchar]

You're assuming a lot since I don't think his demands have ever been made public .

The actual dollar figure wasn't but the fact that he and the team were far apart was.

 

[colchar]

YES!!! People tend to way over-react!

I can completely understand not wanting your team to do a crazy 12 year contract until a player is 42 like we've seen in recent years - but to freak out about how many players are left to sign vs. how much space is left is silly.

It comes off like people think Nonis and his team can't do the math - when in fact they're a room full of people who understand the players, values, and cap implications about 100X times better than anyone on these boards.

Exactly!

The pay their actuaries a ton of money to be right on top of the cap and those folks know to the penny what the team can or cannot do.

 

[Anth93]

Probably yes, but I think we carelessly wasted 3/4 million in capspace through buyouts/retaining salary and signing heavyweights.

That's a lot when you're now trying to squeeze in three RFA's that we can't afford to see get offer sheeted.

 

[VO5]

Sometimes not enough, there are plenty of people cheering the Clarkson signing when most likely in 5 years it's going to be a large burden on the cap of this team for the remaining two years of the contract. And with no new CBA for at least 8 years, were not going to be getting any compliance buyouts to get out of it.

The best thing is that its been widely speculated, by many people in the hockey world that the cap will be going up in a few years.... 5 outdoor hockey games this year alone, one being the Leafs and Wings (gonna go out on a limb and say thats a profitable venture for the NHL) and a Canadian tv contract coming up... Look around at other teams rosters and see how many 5 million dollar players their are presently.

Now I'm not saying to go out and start signing guys all over the place like that, but sometimes if its the right fit, it is worth the gamble imo...

btw, in case people are not aware, MLSE has deep pockets and say what you want they are greedy $%$$%$%$ but we have always been a cap team, if the cap keeps rising, guess what, we'll be apart of the select few teams that can actually afford to be at or near the cap where as many small market teams will be struggling to get their "self imposed" budgets to the floor.... this is a 10 year CBA, so there is no way for the nhl to jump in and fix it in 3 years from now if the cap skyrockets again.

 

[jrgtml67]

not going to stay in this forum BUT ill say my piece...and the answer is yes !

We have 10.8mill left to the cap for THIS year coming BUT the cap is supposed to go up huge next year and it will for sure. We got the top UFA today signed bozak to a good term and $ same with Bernier. I dont think we have to worry about Kadri Kessel etc until closer to next off season. In addition I dont think Nonis is done. We still have too many dfenceman..and if you read into his words he says himself and coach are happy with top 6 fwds that leaves bttm 6 fwds and the entire dcore

 

[hotpaws]

The actual dollar figure wasn't but the fact that he and the team were far apart was.

That doesn't mean his demands were unreasonable . He outperformed JML this season so if i was his agent i'd be looking for something along the same lines as the deal he got .

 

[hotpaws]

People shouldn't assume there's going to be a large increase in the cap next year . This years cap num has nothing to do with the new 50/50 revenue split and the 64 mil was a number agreed upon due to a shortened sked .

If you go by our last cap of 70 mil which was based on 57 % of revenue then at 50 % you'd be at about 61.5 mil. ( this is assuming my calculations are correct )

 

[KLM-Line]

You're claiming cap problems but that isn't the case. This talk about Franson was out there before the Leafs signed anybody today (in other words, when they still had a boatload of money to spend) so it is not about the cap, it is about Franson's demands. Big, big difference there and you shouldn't go blaming the cap.

Nonsense. If the Leafs would just have to pay $ to get what they need the organization would do it. But they have to manage *drumroll* a cap restricted salary structure which doesn't allow them to overpay at free will.

 

[Parkdale]

Fans should not worry about the cap space other than to realize how fundamental it is to the toolkit of a GM to build a sustainable winning team. The importance of not committing to contracts that do not reflect players' performance for the whole term of the contracts is the reality of a hard cap system. Fortunately, the ineptness of so many team's management/ownerships in the league makes the bar lower than it could be. But for the Leafs' to get to the next level, they have to exceed or at least emulate the cap management style of the more elite teams like Detroit, Boston or Chicago. Knowing when and which fan favorites to jetison is a harsh reality, but it is a trademark of the successful teams. My sense is that Dave Nonis has the smarts and gonads to make these key moves, certainly my hope that is the case.

 

[Kibago]

Yes. any overpayment that isn't multiple millions is basically meaningless. it's the length which can make contracts hard to move.

 

[Razz]

Yes fans worry too much. The cap almost always goes up, and when it goes down there are compliance buyouts.

An overpaid 5mil player willl be a steal 5 years from now. Its how the system is designed.

Look at Bozak, a 50pt center in 2018 when his contract expires will probably cost 6-7mil to replace.

4.2mil will seem like a bargain.

 

[Rockinz]

100% fans over react but that's expected...

The cap will always go up people have to realize this and calm down.

 

[Stephen]

Two aspects are important here.

Firstly Nonis takes advantage now of Burke being cautious and keeping the team flexible by not strangling them with monster contracts and NTCs.
Secondly there is a limited number of "mercy buy outs" which don't hurt your cap management.

Also it is one thing to take a risk and overpay for an elite talent like Kessel. It' s another story for middling players like Clarkson and Bozak who might fit your plans now but who knows if Carlysle is even the Leafs head coach in two years time. That's were things get dicey. A lot of GMs resemble the private people who take a loan and use it for now while not caring for the future. One year in after the lock out and just look around how quickly those "get out of jail" cards are already used up.

I feel the opposite way about Burke being cautious and that being a good thing, etc.

All this time he could have been going all in on guys like Hossa, Kovalchuk, Richards, Cammalleri, and as the Beauchemin trade shows us, you can turn around and get some very nice pieces in return. So if let's say he had actually netted a few more elite free agents, he would have had more pieces to work with in building this club.

As Philadelphia shows us, there's not a lot of consequences other than a lot of buyout money being wasted.

 

[HellasLEAF]

proud to say I've never used cap geek. that should answer that.

I'm more about the idea that a certain player signed is or is not a key piece to winning the Stanley Cup.

I'm not going to flip out over 500k too much or a year or two too long.

 

[Sypher04]

Sometimes not enough, there are plenty of people cheering the Clarkson signing when most likely in 5 years it's going to be a large burden on the cap of this team for the remaining two years of the contract. And with no new CBA for at least 8 years, were not going to be getting any compliance buyouts to get out of it.

I think it's easy to say something like that, but really do we have any idea? From the time period of 2005-2006 season to this last lockout, the NHL's salary cap rose from 39 million to 70.2 million dollars. That is over 30 million dollars in 8 years time.

Now, I'm not suggesting that we can assume similar growth, but even if the cap grew by half that amount in the next 7 years, does that contract even prove bad at that time? I have a hard time believing it will.

The great thing with a guy like Clarkson as well, is that even if he's not scoring, he's a guy that leaves his mark on almost every game.

 

[Ari91]

Yes, fans worry far too much over it. The only reason why cap space should be worrisome is if bad signings are preventing a team from locking up important pieces on their team. Currently, the cap space is tight but there's still lots of off season left and people are already freaking out about it.

Ideally, there are certain numbers you may prefer because it fits nicely into the cap and may give your team some flexibility but ultimately, it's about finding players that bring important elements that any team would need to be Cup contenders. It may not all come together right away but there's no point in worrying about how to deal with a contract 4 years from now. And if you feel the need to tirelessly complain and attempt to predict the future, well then, some friendly advice, there are probably far better (and suitable) things to stress over in life than about what's going to happen to a sports team 4 years down the road.