Did any credible scouting outlet have misgivings about Lafreniere or Yakupov ?

[Raistlin]

So Lafreniere is not a bust for a 1OA pick? getting 57 points tied to the waist with a 120 point linemate? taking 300 games to get to this point? Isnt there an opportunity cost to have to have to wait 4 years for a glimmer of hope thanks to a prolific linemate?

The previous 3 years, he didnt even break 40 points. Part of getting a 1OA pick is that the team can have him drive his line by his D+3 and hopefully point per game by D+4. So now we know he is not as bad as Yakupov. Maybe he will reach the lofty heights set by RNH one day.

Lafreniere isn't finished developing. Anyone who says otherwise frankly doesn't understand hockey. He has developed slowly, but he went to a deep team where he couldn't get huge ice time right away. He has improved every year and had his best year by far this season. Was jack Hughes a bust after 2 years? Then he broke out and people pretended they were right the whole time. Joe Thornton had 7 points as a rookie. Lecavalier had 28.

Yakupov looked good as a rookie then regressed every year. Not really the same ballpark.

there is a cost to HOW SLOW he developed.

 

[Gorskyontario]

there is a cost to HOW SLOW he developed.

As of right now he is 3rd in points in his draft class. He also has 9 points in 7 games in this years playoffs. Guy Lafleur(1OA) started his career with 64,55,56 points. Compared to Dionne(2OA) with 77,90,78 points and Rick Martin(5OA) with 74,73,86. Lafleur was the guy who won 3 art ross trophies in a row.

If Lafreniere never breaks out in 5 years and stagnates and other players in his draft improve. You could call him a bust. As of right now anyone calling him a bust doesn't understand hockey.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Are you taking away points from Rantanen for playing with MacKinnon? And look at the points everyone on PP 1 for the Rangers got, I believe they're in that range. If you don't want to award him "magical points" but don't want to adjust for the fact that he's been mostly getting his points at even strength are you not biasing the results in your favor?

Edit: I just checked from the forwards on PP1, Trocheck had the fewest with 24.

Sure, you can take away points from Rantanen for playing with Mackinnon, he still had more than Lafreniere, and has also produced at a high level when Mackinnon has been injured, so I have no idea what kind of point you’re trying to make.

As you said he’s young so maybe he keeps improving, but everyone, including Rangers fans, expected more than a 50pt guy by his 4th season.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

So Lafreniere is not a bust for a 1OA pick? getting 57 points tied to the waist with a 120 point linemate? taking 300 games to get to this point? Isnt there an opportunity cost to have to have to wait 4 years for a glimmer of hope thanks to a prolific linemate?

The previous 3 years, he didnt even break 40 points. Part of getting a 1OA pick is that the team can have him drive his line by his D+3 and hopefully point per game by D+4. So now we know he is not as bad as Yakupov. Maybe he will reach the lofty heights set by RNH one day.


there is a cost to HOW SLOW he developed.

RNH, the guy who this playoffs has averaged 4 more minutes on ice per game over Laf and has less even strength points and points overall? That RNH? The one averaging 2 more power play minutes per game and he is there with McDavid and Drai? Yeah. Let's hope.

 

[GOilers88]

With all the information available, I never thought I would see a 1OA bust in my life.

Projecting kids as pro athletes isn't a science. All the data in the world won't stop some players from not making it or living up to absurd hype.

Edit: Didn't realize how old this was, my bad.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Sure, you can take away points from Rantanen for playing with Mackinnon, he still had more than Lafreniere, and has also produced at a high level when Mackinnon has been injured, so I have no idea what kind of point you’re trying to make.

As you said he’s young so maybe he keeps improving, but everyone, including Rangers fans, expected more than a 50pt guy by his 4th season.

He is basically PPG over his last 41 games.

 

[nbwingsfan]

He is basically PPG over his last 41 games.

That’s great. Cherry picking 41 games in a 300 game sample is really weird

 

[Rafafouille]

So Lafreniere is not a bust for a 1OA pick? getting 57 points tied to the waist with a 120 point linemate? taking 300 games to get to this point? Isnt there an opportunity cost to have to have to wait 4 years for a glimmer of hope thanks to a prolific linemate?

The previous 3 years, he didnt even break 40 points. Part of getting a 1OA pick is that the team can have him drive his line by his D+3 and hopefully point per game by D+4. So now we know he is not as bad as Yakupov. Maybe he will reach the lofty heights set by RNH one day.


there is a cost to HOW SLOW he developed.

A certain Nathan MacKinnon had 53 points in 82 games in his D+4 season. 63, 38, 52, 53 points. Then 97. Then eventually 140.

Laffy outscored everyone on the rangers not named Panarin and Trocheck at 5 on 5. 51 points. 75 for Panarin, 52 for Trocheck. He outscored Kreider, outscored Zibanejad. That 57 points would've been 75-80 if he had a spot on PP1 instead of PP2. 6 PP points, Kreider has 29, Zib 31, Trocheck 24.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

That’s great. Cherry picking 41 games in a 300 game sample is really weird

Half a season is hardly cherry picking.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

That’s great. Cherry picking 41 games in a 300 game sample is really weird

The most recent 41 games for a guy who is 22 is probably a lot more telling than the previous 250 games when he was 19-21 years of age.

This guy is a future star, book it. Maybe it took a few years longer than people expected but as has been said a million times he went to a deep team which is pretty uncommon for a 1OA.

If it takes you 3 or 4 years but you still become a star , you're not a disappointment IMO. Is mackinnon a disappointment? After his first 4 years his career high was his rookie season of 63 pts. I don't think laf will be a mackinnon but he's going to be a 75+ point player for years to come, and seems to play better in the playoffs. Absolutely a stud

 

[archangel2]

With all the information available, I never thought I would see a 1OA bust in my life.

why? There is a massive difference between Jr , Europe and the NHL. It comes down to how the drafting team develops the player.

 

[archangel2]

Half a season is hardly cherry picking.

too a point you are. 41 games vs 257 games you are ignore. He had a very good this season and I hope he carry's it on. But, he has played 4 seasons in the NHL. Just an observation.

That being said it sometimes takes a while for guys to adjust from JRS to the NHL. Laf is far from a bust. But he needs to keep it up next year.

Now Kaapo Kakko on the other hand? he is another discussion. I remember the whole Jack Hughes vs Kakko debate

 

[rangersfansince08]

That’s great. Cherry picking 41 games in a 300 game sample is really weird

What a dumb argument. I couldn't care less about his rookie season at this point. I want him to be PPG+ by the time he is 24 and he is trending that way. if he has putting up 80-90 points by then he is not a bust.

 

[Phil McKraken]

A certain Nathan MacKinnon had 53 points in 82 games in his D+4 season. 63, 38, 52, 53 points. Then 97. Then eventually 140.

Laffy outscored everyone on the rangers not named Panarin and Trocheck at 5 on 5. 51 points. 75 for Panarin, 52 for Trocheck. He outscored Kreider, outscored Zibanejad. That 57 points would've been 75-80 if he had a spot on PP1 instead of PP2. 6 PP points, Kreider has 29, Zib 31, Trocheck 24.

The scoring average has gone up significantly since MacKinnon's 53 point season, plus he didn't have a linemate outproducing him by more than 100%. Their teams were also exact opposites, with the Rangers winning the Presidents' Trophy and the Avs finishing dead last.

Even if those things didn't factor in, MacKinnon's trajectory is a big anomaly for a 1OA, and I wouldn't bet on anyone emulating it anytime soon.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I remember people laughing when Burke said he would have taken Morgan Rielly 1st overall that year

 

[GAGLine]

He’s obviously not remotely comparable to Yakupov, but he’s still a pretty big disappointment to where he was expected to be.

It's clear you don't watch him play. No Ranger fan is disappointed with his play this year.

 

[Black Tank]

So Lafreniere is not a bust for a 1OA pick? getting 57 points tied to the waist with a 120 point linemate? taking 300 games to get to this point? Isnt there an opportunity cost to have to have to wait 4 years for a glimmer of hope thanks to a prolific linemate?

The previous 3 years, he didnt even break 40 points. Part of getting a 1OA pick is that the team can have him drive his line by his D+3 and hopefully point per game by D+4. So now we know he is not as bad as Yakupov. Maybe he will reach the lofty heights set by RNH one day.


there is a cost to HOW SLOW he developed.

There was and is NO cost to the Rangers to have him develop slowly. They are a top contender, not some cellar dweller desperate to fill seats and maybe get a handful of wins a season. Now they've got a 22 year old seasoned vet that plays a 200 foot, physical game about to enter his prime.

 

[Mr Kot]

as someone who thought he was extremely dissapointing, its good to see hes doing well, was always rooting for him. I want now to see a Hughes - Lafrenierre rivalry.

 

[TGWL]

Omg, leave him alone already. "He's not a bust but a bust for #1." Sure, use whatever definition you want to keep tossing out bust. He's a top 6 player currently. Let it go and come back when he's not playing like a top 6.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Lafreniere isn't finished developing. Anyone who says otherwise frankly doesn't understand hockey. He has developed slowly, but he went to a deep team where he couldn't get huge ice time right away. He has improved every year and had his best year by far this season. Was jack Hughes a bust after 2 years? Then he broke out and people pretended they were right the whole time. Joe Thornton had 7 points as a rookie. Lecavalier had 28.

Yakupov looked good as a rookie then regressed every year. Not really the same ballpark.

People think that because some first overalls were great the second they stepped on the ice that if another one isn't they can't have a normal prospect development track and are just going to be shit for all eternity. Also, while the hysterics of this great team getting 1st overall are completely overblown, they still were a better team than most 1st overall teams and that added a complication to his development. That and two shitty developmental coaches.

 

[Spybot]

Usually it's star or bust with high picks, but I bet he'll have a nice David Legwand kind of a career. Not a world beater, but a generally decent player.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So Lafreniere is not a bust for a 1OA pick? getting 57 points tied to the waist with a 120 point linemate? taking 300 games to get to this point? Isnt there an opportunity cost to have to have to wait 4 years for a glimmer of hope thanks to a prolific linemate?

The previous 3 years, he didnt even break 40 points. Part of getting a 1OA pick is that the team can have him drive his line by his D+3 and hopefully point per game by D+4. So now we know he is not as bad as Yakupov. Maybe he will reach the lofty heights set by RNH one day.


there is a cost to HOW SLOW he developed.

He developed slowly, but he's still 22. Let's say he develops into a PPG player or whatever from next season and you compare him to someone who was a PPG player since he was 19 and you do a poll of which player you'd rather have over the course of their careers I think everyone would choose the guy at 19. There's no question there's a cost to it. I guess the issue is years 18-21 already happened and going forward they are irrelevant.

As far as his 57 points. At even strength he's producing at a high level, especially the second half of the season. He's first line player at even strength. He has 39 points in his last 41 games, including the playoffs. Most of those coming at even strength. People are completely ignoring that. As far as playing with Panarin, if you actually watch the team you'll see that all three contributed to the success of the others. It's not a coincidence that Panarin had his best season when his linemates weren't Dryden Hunt and Ryan Strome. And no one says shit about Nichushkin and Rantenan playing with MacKinnon. Why do they not benefit from MacKinnon but Lafreniere benefits from playing with Panarin? All good teams with have talented players playing with one another. I guess excluding maybe the Penguins teams that DIDN'T win it all that had mediocre wingers largely. But yeah having Crosby and Malkin type players helps. But that's the exception not the norm.

Usually it's star or bust with high picks, but I bet he'll have a nice David Legwand kind of a career. Not a world beater, but a generally decent player.

Lafreniere at 22 already would have the second best season of David Legwand's career.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Half a season is hardly cherry picking.

Half a season over 4 seasons is absolutely cherry picking. How did he do the first half? Or the other 3 seasons?

 

[nbwingsfan]

It's clear you don't watch him play. No Ranger fan is disappointed with his play this year.

As I said, if I came into the Rangers board and told you by the end of year 4 his career high would be 57pts and he would have been passed by up to 4-5 players in the draft I would have been banned for trolling.

 

[Goose]

Laf is a RNH, not a Yak