Did any credible scouting outlet have misgivings about Lafreniere or Yakupov ?

[Frank Drebin]

Yeah cause all top picks are elite players by the age of 21 or 22. Not all 1st overall picks even end up being elite NHL players.

If your first overall or second overall pick doesn't turn out to be a top line player, top pairing defenseman, or top 10 goalie in the world, it can be considered a disappointment.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

Laf is the epitome is someone who peaked in high school.

 

[Roomtemperature]

If your first overall or second overall pick doesn't turn out to be a top line player, top pairing defenseman, or top 10 goalie in the world, it can be considered a disappointment.

It can but still unless he flames out of the league or becomes a 4th liner journey man I think its not not productive to compare him to Yakupov. At this point for the Rangers and their team needs they slotted him into a spot. Could he being doing better and grabbing more ice time and productivity maybe, is it the Rangers fault for not doing what ever to get more out of him probably. Honestly I guess he seems happy and the Rangers seem happy cause no one is trying to get him out for assests or himself for a better playing situation so who knows.

 

[These Are The Days]

What I specifically remember about Laf before he was drafted was that whichever team won that televised draft lottery was basically winning a turnaround for their non-contender into a playoff team in the next year or so. He was hyped -- if not as much as Matthews, McDavid and Crosby were in their draft years -- then pretty damn close to it. The consensus was that he was a star NHLer already, and would just step in and make his team better.

I did not see anyone argue against this narrative at the time. It was as close to as universally agreed upon as any opinion I've seen on these boards and in the hockey world.

My brother is a Rangers fan, and I vividly remember phoning him up and congratulating him when the Rangers won the draft lottery. I've never done that for anything the rangers have accomplished in the last 20 years. It was that big of a deal.

You should do the noble, brotherly thing and either leave a voicemail of you laughing hysterically about Laf or when he picks up the phone you start with "Remember when I called to congratulate you about the NYR winning the lottery?" and then proceed to laugh hysterically. The spirit of family and hockey fandom demands it.

Every fan of a team that's not our favorite has to get some kind of gentle chirp now and again.

 

[Mrb1p]

I rarely ever scout the slam dunks 1OA like Laf, I dont even recall seeing one full game of him lol. I wonder what happened really.

I saw a lot of Hughes by proxy and Svechnikov and Laf was just as hyped as them so its pretty funny to see him fail this hard.

 

[TGWL]

Laf had the maturity, hand-eye coordination, and great backhand play-making ability to put him at the top of the draft. I'm not sure if Covid hurt development from some of the other prospects, but in most leagues outside of the NHL, you can really get away with not being a good skater. If you're not a good skater and you don't move your feet, you better have great puck protection and an elite shot, because you're not getting far without that.

If your first overall or second overall pick doesn't turn out to be a top line player, top pairing defenseman, or top 10 goalie in the world, it can be considered a disappointment.

100%
But it also needs to be pointed out that there's a difference between draft disappointment and draft bust.

 

[Fantomas]

At the World Juniors that year Laf looked like the real deal. Wish I could say I was the one who knew he'd disappoint, but nope. I was sold, just like everyone else.

Maybe the Rangers did ruin him.

My take on Laf as a Rangers fan is that being a gold medal winning MVP who went 1OA was the top of the mountain for him. He felt like he made it. NY city, O6 franchise with deep pockets. He arrived. That was it. He didn’t feel like he had to prove or earn anything and, while still young enough to figure things out, he still hasn’t realized “oh, crap, just making it to the show, being 1OA doesn’t mean anything if I don’t work more”. He’s just way too comfy with himself.

8 people liked this terrible post based on this person's gut feeling or something.

 

[Brookbank]

8 people liked this terrible post based on this person's gut feeling or something.

Well, it is all kinda voodoo with Laf at this point. The poster was just offering a hypothesis

 

[Burkeocet]

If Laf played on a team with a top 6 spot and PP time for a LW, he’d likely have progressed better and would maybe be a threat to hit 60 points.

Unfortunately, the rangers have Kreider and Panarin in the way and have been awful at prospect development anyways. Having a 21 year old 1OA play on the third line with minimal PP time is what’s really wrong.

No, he’s not going to be a superstar but if he keeps working on his skating and gets the chance, I think he can still be a 70 point guy.

 

[saska sault]

I am not a scout and am regularly very wrong, but I never got the hype for Laf. Looked like he just matured/developed early and seemed a 3rd line NHLer playing against lesser competition. Didn’t see special skills or ways he’d improve, just looked like a more complete player at a younger age who might not grow much from there.

I did like Yak, however, mostly because he was exciting, like how being chased by bees is exciting. It ain’t necessarily good, but it’s something.

PS- I had the same feeling on Wright as I did on Laf watching the world juniors. Bedard looked special, Wright didn’t. NHL teams wizened up to that one in time, however.

I remember watching Yakupov when he visited the Sault.. I thought he was the next Ovechkin, he use to have Sting... now he's just being chased by the bees.

If Laf played on a team with a top 6 spot and PP time for a LW, he’d likely have progressed better and would maybe be a threat to hit 60 points.

Unfortunately, the rangers have Kreider and Panarin in the way and have been awful at prospect development anyways. Having a 21 year old 1OA play on the third line with minimal PP time is what’s really wrong.

No, he’s not going to be a superstar but if he keeps working on his skating and gets the chance, I think he can still be a 70 point guy.

What is the price for Laf at this point? Wings could take a gamble on him.. could be our new Dan Cleary.

 

[Burkeocet]

What is the price for Laf at this point? Wings could take a gamble on him.. could be our new Dan Cleary.

I have no idea but I can’t see it being anywhere near bargain basement, redemption pricing. He’s still only 21 and a 1OA. I imagine you’d need to send a big package to move him. We’ll see but it’s a shame he’s stuck in that situation. He could excel I think if moved out. He won’t in New York though

 

[alko]

The hype about Lafreniere was very big, wasnt it?

 

[Sliptip]

The hype about Lafreniere was very big, wasnt it?

Absolutely the most for a winger in a long time. He for sure had way more hype than at least the 3 1OA before him at least.



I think there is an issue, moreso in this era of hockey, where the rookies in general have a way harder time early on in their careers if they come immediately. I mean, the Jack Hughes saga is a great example. People were going absolutely crazy with the takes during his first couple years, and now he is one of the leagues superstars, and not impossible seeing him take home a couple awards in his career.

Becoming an NHL success is way more than just being the best junior or having the best draft year from an absolute perspective. If you don't seem like the best player in your class, but you have a lot of translateable skills and things that if you just make slight adjustments, will make you the guy. If you want someone from 2020, look at Stutzle.

With Lafreniere, it felt like you had a old kid for his class, who were way better and more developed than his peers, lacking in skating, effort and discpline. But he whipped the juniors and had the points. I would imagine the canadian part played in well too. But when it came to the NHL, those weaknesses actually got exploited, and his chances to exploit things like in juniors dissapeared. Generally, I think it is pretty dangerours to take high picks or swings on players that don't have many skills that are "game-breaking", meaning they have attributes that can be projected to crack open opposition at the NHL level.

In a lot of way, Laf is similar to Noah Dower Nilsson from this years draft(way better obv). NDN was by far the most point productive 05-born swede in j20, but got drafted 73rd, and as the 7th swedish forward born 2005. Reason is, his skills and ways are not very likely to project to the next levels in the same way. In some ways, the weaknesses are similar to Laf.

With all this said, I do think the Rangers also are massively responsible for all of this. Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov and Andersson? Like, at some point questions needs to be asked of the organisation. I might have though some of these players were slightly overrated at the time, but there is no way it all should have crumbled like this. The way the team flippantly has treated their deveolopment is just another sign.

 

[Voight]

I remember a coworker telling me Laf was lazy and didn’t have it in him to be a star. I understood at the time, the concern was he was a B level 1OA. If he went today, he might have ended up 4th. Still, a team with 2 LW’s ahead of him drafted him and he doesn’t play well as RW. He could probably grow into a legit top 6 winger with the room. He’s not getting that on the third line.

I also remember a lot of speculation that Murray would go ahead of Yakupov then. I still think had he have stayed healthy, he woulda been a really solid top 4 D. Maybe not a #2 OA but certainly not a Griffin Reinhart

If Laf had true game breaking talent he would've forced his way up the lineup.

 

[Windy River]

I rarely ever scout the slam dunks 1OA like Laf, I dont even recall seeing one full game of him lol. I wonder what happened really.

I saw a lot of Hughes by proxy and Svechnikov and Laf was just as hyped as them so its pretty funny to see him fail this hard.

Laf was not ‘just as hyped’ as Hughes or Svechnikov. He was waaay more hyped. As previously stated by many, his hype level was nearly on par with Crosbys.

 

[NyQuil]

Laf was not ‘just as hyped’ as Hughes or Svechnikov. He was waaay more hyped. As previously stated by many, his hype level was nearly on par with Crosbys.

Not at all, that's nuts.

No one called Lafreniere "generational" like they did with Crosby, McDavid and even Dahlin.

Hell, I knew Crosby's name when he was 14 years old.

I'd say he was probably more on par with a Nathan MacKinnon or John Tavares, just below an Auston Matthews.

I agree that he was probably hyped higher than both Hughes and Svechnikov.

 

[Windy River]

If Laf had true game breaking talent he would've forced his way up the lineup.

This narrative that the Rangers are holding him back is absurd. I have never seen an underperforming forward receive as much ‘rope’ as Laf has in a single season, let alone year after year..

Not at all, that's nuts.

No one called Lafreniere "generational" like they did with Crosby, McDavid and even Dahlin.

Hell, I knew Crosby's name when he was 14 years old.

I'd say he was probably more on par with a Nathan MacKinnon or John Tavares.

He was literally being hyped as ‘the best player since Crosby’. Retrospectively it’s hard to imagine, but in no way was Laf considered anything but a team-changing, and yes: generational, struggling-team-to-cup-contender type of forward.

 

[NyQuil]

He was literally being hyped as ‘the best player since Crosby’.

I don't remember hearing anything to that effect at all, and I was paying very close attention that year because Ottawa had a good shot at #1.

Here's the type of thing you saw:

There’s a lot to unpack when it comes to Rimouski Oceanic forward Alexis Lafreniere, who’s assumed to go first overall in this upcoming draft. He’s a franchise calibre talent who can alter the course of a team. While the Leafs already have a couple of first-overall picks of a similar calibre in Auston Matthews and John Tavares, Lafreniere’s skill would nonetheless be an exceptional addition to the team.

Should the Toronto Maple Leafs win the draft lottery, here’s how Alexis Lafreniere could impact them

The dreaded time has come for Toronto Maple Leafs fans. It's officiall...

theleafsnation.com

Crosby was always being brought up because they both played for Rimouski in the Q.

“He played in Rimouski, and I did too. That’s something people say,” Lafrenière said. “But I’m not Crosby. I just try to be myself and play my game. If I can watch Crosby play and do things like he do, for sure I will do it to try to get better, but I don’t think I’m Crosby.”

 

[Mrb1p]

Laf was not ‘just as hyped’ as Hughes or Svechnikov. He was waaay more hyped. As previously stated by many, his hype level was nearly on par with Crosbys.

Not at all. Come on.

 

[Voight]

This narrative that the Rangers are holding him back is absurd. I have never seen an underperforming forward receive as much ‘rope’ as Laf has in a single season, let alone year after year..


He was literally being hyped as ‘the best player since Crosby’. Retrospectively it’s hard to imagine, but in no way was Laf considered anything but a team-changing, and yes: generational, struggling-team-to-cup-contender type of forward.

Thats not what I'm saying.

My point is if he was truly an dynamo or whatever then he would be killing it even on the 3rd line and shown he needs a bigger role.

100% he gets a crapload of leeway because hes a #1 pick.

Not at all. Come on.

100% he was way more hyped. From little things like playing for the same junior team as Crosby, to winning CHL POY twice to being WJC MVP..... media was salivating over him.

Especially because of the COVID break, they had extra time to over analyze him. I.e. he had 6 months between his season ending and the draft vs the regular 3 1/2.

 

[NyQuil]

100% he was way more hyped. From little things like playing for the same junior team as Crosby, to winning CHL POY twice to being WJC MVP..... media was salivating over him.

Especially because of the COVID break, they had extra time to over analyze him. I.e. he had 6 months between his season ending and the draft vs the regular 3 1/2.

They were compared because of their similar backgrounds, not because anyone expected him to be as good as Crosby.

Again, I had a lot of vested interest that year with 2 very solid shots at the #1 overall - it never occurred to me or any media that I watched that we could draft a potential Crosby.

Crosby was a household name in this country when he was 13 or 14.

Hypewise - Gretzky - Lemieux - Lindros - Crosby - McDavid - that's the top tier.

Bedard might actually belong there too.

 

[Bank Shot]

I think the Oilers was a big part of Yaks downfall. That franchise in 2012-14 was just toxic af. He got no developmental momentum and then it became a sell fulfilling prophecy

Then why didn't guys like Eberle, Hall, Klefbom and RNH bust?

No momentum? He was nominated for the Calder?

When facts get in the way of trashing someone, just make up a good story. It's the Vancouver Canucks fans way. Go throw some more darts at Messier.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The oilers ohl scouts didn’t even want him

yeah, the oilers scouts wanted Ryan Murray, which... not exactly a feather in their cap either haha.

 

[Three On Zero]

Then why didn't guys like Eberle, Hall, Klefbom and RNH bust?

No momentum? He was nominated for the Calder?

When facts get in the way of trashing someone, just make up a good story. It's the Vancouver Canucks fans way. Go throw some more darts at Messier.

Being nominated =/= actually being on the ballot as a finalist. Which Yakupov wasn't, quite a few rookies get nominated and it doesn't mean much

yeah, the oilers scouts wanted Ryan Murray, which... not exactly a feather in their cap either haha.

Interesting player for "what ifs", injuries completely ruined him

 

[joestevens29]

yeah, the oilers scouts wanted Ryan Murray, which... not exactly a feather in their cap either haha.

At least he can use the excuse that injuries derailed him.

I said a few years ago that was one draft where really you wanted pick 5 through 10 other than 1-4.

Murray and Reinhart both were meh like d-men that really didn't instill that they would be top pairing d-men. Yak was a one trick pony and Galchenyuk had a major red flag with injury going into the draft.